Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

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Thread: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

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    Default Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    Is there an extended work ejector assembly for the TT1800SY? Something ~6" stroke length? I tried several lines and couldn't reach anyone to ask at Doosan or Ellison.

    We have a pair of TT1800SY's and the ~4.4" ejector stroke is really limiting the ability handle some parts properly, and also causing extra time going job to job, because work ejectors are really critical almost application engineered components with that small stroke length on longer parts. If you need some grab depth, you end up running parts .100" off the face of the ejector and if anything goes wrong, the machine wants to rotate the ejector and damage itself.

    A little extra stroke length would allow 3" jaws with ability to stroke out the parts, also would make work ejector ends easier to quickly manufacture without a lot of thought and strategy.

    I'd gladly cut a hole in the sheet metal to get a ejector that could give this machine some job to job flexibility with jaw and part length.

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    Default Re: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    Odd.

    I work for Doosan.

    I've given you my number previously, when you have come here to comment before calling us...

    My footer at the bottom of every post I have ever done has my Desk number, my Cell number, AND my email...yet no mention of anything on any of those.

    If you call us, we help.

    ...and I hope to God we know more about our options than anyone else on this site.

    I'm headed upstairs to ask Lathe Sales Support what the available options are.

    I will update this, soon.

    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479


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    Default Re: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    Short answer. 1 version has always worked, there has been no need for options...so there is none available.

    I am discussing possible "workarounds" with Engineering. Will update.

    I need your serial number, please...

    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479


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    Default Re: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    There is nothing in the works to increase the stroke available.
    There are no Doosan certified alterations currently available.

    That said, attached are the manufacturing drawings of the Air Cylinder (the unit that, if it were longer would give you more stroke) and the Locator tip (the unit that, if it were longer would give you more reach)


    If one man can make it, another man can re-make it...

    Attached Files Attached Files
    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479


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    Default Re: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhardt View Post
    Odd.

    I work for Doosan.

    I've given you my number previously, when you have come here to comment before calling us...

    My footer at the bottom of every post I have ever done has my Desk number, my Cell number, AND my email...yet no mention of anything on any of those.

    If you call us, we help.

    ...and I hope to God we know more about our options than anyone else on this site.

    I'm headed upstairs to ask Lathe Sales Support what the available options are.

    I will update this, soon.

    I did try you, Lubos, and our local Ellison applications guy Kyle Brunner before posting. I couldn't reach anyone. We dropped production on 3 machines in a 5 machine turning cell all week (5 days) trying to solve this problem. Nothing was happening except trying to get this machine to run a good part. We got to a place where we machined one good part Friday at 3:45, before close of business, and I really am not sure that means that the next part is going to be a good part. At .060" wall, at 3.9" hang out, 17-4, it's marginal at best. Some ejector range would get us deeper grabs, longer jaws, or both, for better manufacturing stability. The TT sub is a main spindle with a huge bore and incredible depth, but the short ejector limits useful length to ~4.5".

    It was a depressing week. Demotivating. My turning guy was like, "If this doesn't work, maybe I'll stick my head in there and push the button." He's good, the part was 8" long and really that's just stretching it for the TT1800SY. The machine is big, but it kind of seems like a big machine that does best with small parts.



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    Default

    So when I asked Lubos if anyone called about a longer ejector, it must have just slipped his mind. And neither cell nor desk voice mail had anything... Email either.
    They must have all been on the fritz.

    I'm a firm believer in helping everyone. Though I do put a high value on the truth.

    I hope the drawings are helpful, and if you want to claim you have called me, maybe at least leave a message at one of the three contact points I've left at the bottom of every post.
    Something that I don't have to do. Like I don't have to try and help here... But I do. I reply to every service based request and Doug Rizzo helps with the apps issues.
    Don't claim that you can't get a reply when we reach out in more ways than any manufacturer that I've ever seen.

    **stepping off of my soapbox now**

    Have a great night. Call if you need help.



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    Default Re: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    By the way are you using a dual chucking package for the thin walled part, to keep grip force without crushing it?

    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479


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    Default Re: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    I tried calling, I didn't reach anyone, and that's not everyone else's fault that's just why I posted it instead. I do appreciate help, I appreciate truth also. I've attached a screen grab from my phone showing the call attempts. I didn't lie about trying to reach people. I thought about trying a couple others, but figured those people don't deal in parts or application. I was only reaching out because this part and it's problems made the TT1800SY look bad, and had everyone depressed and defeated.

    The TT1800SY is probably one of the stronger value machines in the lineup, so far all I've had to deal with that I feel would make it a more productive and strong machine for me are: M01 working without freezing the other path in dual path mode (something I did receive some help with, but that popped up again when I started a program with the lower path on the main spindle of one of the machines), a longer ejector stroke [and or] an ejector rod that could rotate with the spindle and part, and logic that allowed me to fire my autodoor so I could have a machine ready for an in process inspection if one was required- but my autodoor is not factory because I was quoted ~$10,500 per door, so it was just a lot of money for an actual Doosan autodoor. I've inquired today with a local guy who used to work for a big five brand, who knows Fanuc ladder logic, to see if he can help me with straightening out some logic problems like the door, and MO1. The cool thing about doors, is you hear them opening, and sometimes you see them opening, and also you can look at the machine and see the door open- so in many ways they tell the operator its time to do something. The Ellison guys acted like it was crazy talk to need a door on a twin turret machine, but it is a workaround to the really bad application issues and I was thinking about that at the time.

    If my autodoor fired with M-code, I probably would have just taken the ejector end off, fired the door, and had people pull the parts, allowing me to grip where I need to be, and to use the jaws ideal for the job. With the door closed, people will not notice, and we will lose a bunch of time in 5-15 minute or so chucks as people realize they need to tend an automatic machine running with program breaks.

    No I don't believe I have dual clamping on either machine. We are just running BB206 sub chucks (which are a bit weak to grip already), at about 220PSI, where we feel we have safety against pushing the part into the ejector with a 33mm 880 insert drill, and are not crushing the part in either grip.

    When we got M01 operating on normal upper main programs, and got tool load monitoring to kill spindles to alert operators to problems, those two edits brought up TT1800SY output per day by 20%. That's a huge amount of output increase.

    These small things make good machines better. We are taking a look at a Lynx 220 LYSC - we put one on the floor and just have to sell a Yama Seiki machine to put it into the location we want to set it up rather than put it in an inefficient location on the floor by itself. The TT1800SY is the only Doosan turning machine we have experience with currently and it is a pretty good machine that just has some complicated logic, and message issues that make working with it slower on the settup side. We also have Mastercam Mill-turn for it, but it doesn't actually post good part handling that runs in the control, so obviously Mastercam gave up on trying to fully figure it out, so I'm not the dumbest guy on the block for saying it's challenging to work through some of the stuff. There are interference codes that at times need to be applied and they kill the ability for Mastercam to be compatible with the machine, because you have to use human logic and reasoning to solve those so the machine can actually run.
    Extended work ejector for TT1800SY?  Is there a solution?-thumbnail-4-jpg

    Last edited by Green0; 03-16-2019 at 02:46 PM.


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    My call log shows no call received, missed, or unknown(I checked back to the beginning of February.)

    In 20 years of that machine the ejector has been sufficient. It is unlikely to be altered for one instance by Doosan, from the drawings that you now have...

    The power and knowledge to fix your unique issue are now in your hands.

    Doosan Service Technician
    darryl.hardt@doosanmt.com O:973-618-2461 M:973-803-9479


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    Default Re: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    Quote Originally Posted by dhardt View Post
    My call log shows no call received, missed, or unknown(I checked back to the beginning of February.)

    In 20 years of that machine the ejector has been sufficient. It is unlikely to be altered for one instance by Doosan, from the drawings that you now have...

    The power and knowledge to fix your unique issue are now in your hands.

    I run a company with tens of thousands of customers to date. We have customer service also and dealing with people is a challenge, because people aren't ever happy to have problems, sometimes something doesn't go perfectly. I only care to the extent that I want people to know I'm not a liar.

    Thanks for the info Darryl, it helped put us in a place to get this moving with SMC pneumatics. We were able to get in touch with a regional representative for SMC USA and they are looking into a special penumatic actuator for the application. If I get through that successfully I will update you and this thread with the part number and cost. The ejector isn't dysfunctional, but with more stroke the machine will be more versatile especially on longer parts. It's my personal opinion that a lot of people don't really seek excellence, so if they have quality or performance issues, they probably just give up and settle for imperfection. We had several run ins with short ejector stroke before we inquired here. Apparently SMC can also do a double acting version where the customer can adjust the length of stroke for the job. Obviously that means adjusting sensor positions too, but that's a nice feature as well. I'm hoping that SMC can quote both.

    I learned something today, we had not machined between chucks in the past. The TT1800SY cannot simply run M35 and drag the subspindle with the main. You have to put the machine into M136 C1/C2 sync control mode or it will rotate the C2 at a different speed. Mill turn as far as I know doesn't have a "mill between chucks" mode so it didn't output correctly.



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    Default Re: Extended work ejector for TT1800SY? Is there a solution?

    Correction I thought I learned something. It took the day to actually figure that out. Here is a correctly structured sync for milling between chucks. You have to have 4 wait code pairs, and a bunch of codes including a chuck unclamp to format it in a way that it will run. This is day 6 of work on this part. I think we have it. But I thought we had it 3 other times so I'm not sure. It would be cool if there was a macro that allowed M136 and M137 to run, but I am not sure that is possible. I did hire a guy who is a pretty good programmer and his first day is later this week. I think I'll ask him if he can make this run on a macro. It would have to be a pair of dual path macros dedicated to M136 and M137, so I'm not sure those are possible or not.







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Extended work ejector for TT1800SY?  Is there a solution?

Extended work ejector for TT1800SY?  Is there a solution?