Help find an analogue.

[Alexiv]

Hi there.
In our company, up to this day, we prefer to use delta tau motion controller for our CNC machines. We used UMAC, Turbo and Power PMAC. Today we can't buy them, they are obsolete. We can buy Omron analogue based on power pmac, but it's so expensive.
Which analogues exist of those motion controllers?
Main requirements:
This must work with CNC G-code.
This controller must have an open API library for interaction. (C#, C++)
This controller must control up to 8 axes (In fact it is 3-4 axes).
This controller must be able to control classic drives (direct PWM, step/dir, cw/ccw).
Our budget is about $1800.
May you recommend me something similar to that?

[Jim Dawson]

Dynomotion or Mesa products would do what you want, and are in the correct price range. Another option is Galil Motion Control products, a bit more expensive.

[Alexiv]

Jim Dawson, thanks a lot.
We consider the dynomotion and Galil. As I know, those controllers don't work with g-code directly.
The dynomotion translates a program to its own code (seems C).
I don't know about Galil's controller. Does it work with g-code directly? Galil controllers are suitable for us, but I'm not sure that g-code will work properly. How does it work?

[Jim Dawson]

The Galil controller will not read G code directly. You have to have to make a program that will translate G code into the Galil commands, pretty easy to do. I use Galil controllers in all of my machines and have written the software for both the user interface and the controller code.

For each G code function I wrote a subroutine in the Galil controller that performs the action, I just pass the variables and call the function.

[Alexiv]

Jim Dawson, thanks. It was very helpful to me.

[Jim Dawson]

My pleasure

[mactec54]

Hi there.
In our company, up to this day, we prefer to use delta tau motion controller for our CNC machines. We used UMAC, Turbo and Power PMAC. Today we can't buy them, they are obsolete. We can buy Omron analogue based on power pmac, but it's so expensive.
Which analogues exist of those motion controllers?
Main requirements:
This must work with CNC G-code.
This controller must have an open API library for interaction. (C#, C++)
This controller must control up to 8 axes (In fact it is 3-4 axes).
This controller must be able to control classic drives (direct PWM, step/dir, cw/ccw).
Our budget is about $1800.
May you recommend me something similar to that?

You may not get all you want but there are some like this, Delta tau was a nice control

Vital systems CNC Mach3 Mach4 Motion Controller, Ethernet PLC that may work for you also

Centroid Oak https://www.centroidcnc.com/centroid...ontroller.html

Camsoft PC Based CNC Controller For The Machine Tool CNC Retrofit And CNC Controller OEM market

[deadlykitten]

Jim (mr jim), how do you know all these stuff ?

[Jim Dawson]

Jim (mr jim), how do you know all these stuff ?

I just solve problems. If I need to learn new skills to solve a problem then I study and learn new skills. Anybody can do this if needed, it's just a matter of wanting to. Then as you learn more skills and get more experience, it gets easier because you have a broader background to draw on. I used to use books, but today with the internet it is even easier, most of the answers are at your fingertips almost instantly.

I think it was Henry Ford who said ''If you think you can, or you think you can't, you are proabaly right'' You are your only limitation to learning new stuff.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
Gallil has a Mach3 plugin, and now also a Mach4 plugin. Mach (3 or 4) is the Gcode interpreter and trajectory planner
and the plugin converts the trajectory into motion commands for the Gallil.

I believe the Dynamotion Kflop has a Mach3 plugin as well, that is to say you run Mach3 compliant Gcode on the PC
and the plugin converts that to motion commands for the Kflop.

Craig

[Jim Dawson]

Hi,
Gallil has a Mach3 plugin, and now also a Mach4 plugin. Mach (3 or 4) is the Gcode interpreter and trajectory planner
and the plugin converts the trajectory into motion commands for the Gallil.

I believe the Dynamotion Kflop has a Mach3 plugin as well, that is to say you run Mach3 compliant Gcode on the PC
and the plugin converts that to motion commands for the Kflop.

Craig

My only question is why would you do the trajectory planning outside of the Galil controller? Trajectory planning is what it is designed to do, and they do it very well. Just tell it where to go, give it speed and acceleration, and let it do its thing.

[joeavaerage]

Hi Jim,

My only question is why would you do the trajectory planning outside of the Galil controller?

To be honest I don't know.

I've never used a Gallil, they have always been beyond my means.

From your comment can I assume that you can give a command to the Galill that will co-ordinate multiple axes with say linear or circular interpolation?

If that is the case, and your comment only serves to reinforce my belief that is the case, then the only reason I can suggest that you would
use a plugin that meant that Mach (3 or 4) became the trajectory planner is because Mach IS ALSO a Gcode interpreter and GUI.

Mach (3 or 4) whatever it faults maybe, real or otherwise, is a (reasonably) complete CNC solution. The GUI allows you to set the parameters
of the machine, tune the axis motors, set the spindle parameters, the tool table, limits, homes etc. Mach has also a number of Wizards
which allow a user to generate simple programs for often required tasks like pocketing, bolt hole circles, thread forming etc.
In addition a New Fanged Solutions supplied add-on product ($75) called Mill Wizard allows for what amounts to 'conversational programming'
by chaining together simpler operations.

These features mean that the user can perform all the necessary things for a job to run with the motion controller being (largely) transparent.
I suspect that is the appeal for using Mach as trajectory planner.

For OP a Mach supervised Gallil fufills many of his requirements.
Mach provideds the Gcode interpreter, Mach4 is very closely Fanuc21 compliant which is the de-facto indsutry standard.
The Gallil DOES have a powerful and complete API, over and above any operations commanded by Mach.
Gallils can control multiple axes, you buy as many axes as required at increasing cost.
Gallils can quite happily PID control analogue servos OR step/direction OR CW/CCW
Gallils are a bust on the budget front, a DMC-4030-C012, a three axis controller is $1995USD.
Gallils are good but very pricey.

Were you to consider Gallil AND wanted a Gcode interperter then I would have to recommend Mach4 over Mach3. All development of Mach3
ceased six years ago and not withstanding its huge user base it is a sunset solution. Mach4 is well developed and very flexible and stable.
That flexibility is conferred by Lua, its scripting language, Mach4's API and modular structure. That flexibility coupled with the Galill API
would give you an endlessly capable solution and in current production with assured ongoing support and development.

Craig

[mactec54]

Hi,
Gallil has a Mach3 plugin, and now also a Mach4 plugin. Mach (3 or 4) is the Gcode interpreter and trajectory planner
and the plugin converts the trajectory into motion commands for the Gallil.

I believe the Dynamotion Kflop has a Mach3 plugin as well, that is to say you run Mach3 compliant Gcode on the PC
and the plugin converts that to motion commands for the Kflop.

Craig

The Mach3 Plug in does not work very well and never has, even after the guy that worked for Galil reworked it, this same Guy no names now works for Newfangled Solutions and is there main programmer so it would be expected for them to have a Galil plug in for Mach4, Mach3 and Galil was a dog and I can't see anyone spending any time on it to make it usable

If you had read the OP posts you would of seen that he had already checked out Dynamotion and was Not suitable

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
yes one of the lead developers of Mach4 is also a Gallil aficionado and he personally wrote the Mach4 plugin for Galill motion control boards.
The plugin is sold by New Fangled Solutions for $100.

I have read this thread and OP has at no time said that Dynamotion is unsuitable. What he did say was that Dynamotion does not read
Gcode directly, which for him is a bust. I posted that there is a plugin that allows Mach3 to supervise a Dynamotion Kflop board. It is up to him
to research that possibility.

Likewise it is up to OP to research whether Gallil and either Mach3 or Mach4 (at my recommendation) would suit his purpose.

The critical point here is that OP wanted a solution that could operate on Gcode and to my knowledge NO analogue motion controller does that directly.
I am, at best, only broadly familiar with Gallil and Kflop boards BECAUSE they do have a plugin which adapts them to Mach control which I am very much
more familiar with.

Craig

[Jim Dawson]

Hi,
yes one of the lead developers of Mach4 is also a Gallil aficionado and he personally wrote the Mach4 plugin for Galill motion control boards.
The plugin is sold by New Fangled Solutions for $100.

I have read this thread and OP has at no time said that Dynamotion is unsuitable. What he did say was that Dynamotion does not read
Gcode directly, which for him is a bust. I posted that there is a plugin that allows Mach3 to supervise a Dynamotion Kflop board. It is up to him
to research that possibility.

Likewise it is up to OP to research whether Gallil and either Mach3 or Mach4 (at my recommendation) would suit his purpose.

The critical point here is that OP wanted a solution that could operate on Gcode and to my knowledge NO analogue motion controller does that directly.
I am, at best, only broadly familiar with Gallil and Kflop boards BECAUSE they do have a plugin which adapts them to Mach control which I am very much
more familiar with.

Craig

Since the OP is a CNC machine manufacturer and were using Delta Tau controllers, I assume they already have the G code interpreter software and GUI already in place. They were just looking for a controller to connect it to since the Delta Tau controllers are apparently no longer available. As far as I know, Delta Tau controllers would not read G code directly. All they would have to do to use the Galil, is change the command language from Delta Tau to Galil.

I know nothing about Mach4, but I hope that they are using the full power of the Galil in the plugin, unlike the Mach3 plugin which turned the Galil into a zombie. That is exactly the reason I wrote my own CNC software.

From your comment can I assume that you can give a command to the Galill that will co-ordinate multiple axes with say linear or circular interpolation?

Yes, that is correct. The built in circular interpolation is only two axis, but there is software workaround to make it up to 8 axis, not that you would actually ever need an 8 axis circular path. At least I can't think of a use for that.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

I assume they already have the G code interpreter software and GUI already in place.

Well, yes that makes sense in view of your understanding:

As far as I know, Delta Tau controllers would not read G code directly.

Then why do you suppose that OP asked for a solution that was able to run Gcode directly?

Craig

[Jim Dawson]

Hi,
Then why do you suppose that OP asked for a solution that was able to run Gcode directly?
Craig

Actually he didn't. He asked if Galil would run G code directly. And then he asked how it works, which I answered.

The OP's original specifications:

''Main requirements:
This must work with CNC G-code.
This controller must have an open API library for interaction. (C#, C++)
This controller must control up to 8 axes (In fact it is 3-4 axes).
This controller must be able to control classic drives (direct PWM, step/dir, cw/ccw).
Our budget is about $1800.
May you recommend me something similar to that?''

English is not the OP's first language. So you have to translate a bit. But taken in the context of their current Delta Tau use and the rest of the specs, the requirement for direct G code use does not exist. And it's safe to assume that they have their own translation program and GUI

Delta Tau is (was?) a direct competitor of Galil, and is very similar. That taken together with the fact that he was happy with my response indicating that the Galil would work with ''CNC G code'' seems to have answered his question.

[mactec54]

Actually he didn't. He asked if Galil would run G code directly. And then he asked how it works, which I answered.

The OP's original specifications:

''Main requirements:
This must work with CNC G-code.
This controller must have an open API library for interaction. (C#, C++)
This controller must control up to 8 axes (In fact it is 3-4 axes).
This controller must be able to control classic drives (direct PWM, step/dir, cw/ccw).
Our budget is about $1800.
May you recommend me something similar to that?''

English is not the OP's first language. So you have to translate a bit. But taken in the context of their current Delta Tau use and the rest of the specs, the requirement for direct G code use does not exist. And it's safe to assume that they have their own translation program and GUI

Delta Tau is (was?) a direct competitor of Galil, and is very similar. That taken together with the fact that he was happy with my response indicating that the Galil would work with ''CNC G code'' seems to have answered his question.

Softservo is why ahead of the Galil or Delta Tau systems for a CNC control which I have used both and installed many of them, Softservo would also work for the OP which has all the features he required and is a OEM control used in many CNC machines

[Jim Dawson]

I did a bit of research on Delta Tau. They have apparently been purchased by Omron and I assume this must have precipitated a dramatic price increase in their products, thus the OP's search for another solution.

It also seems that Delta Tau does have a basic G code interpreter software solution for their products that is user customizable for specific applications.

[mactec54]

I did a bit of research on Delta Tau. They have apparently been purchased by Omron and I assume this must have precipitated a dramatic price increase in their products, thus the OP's search for another solution.

It also seems that Delta Tau does have a basic G code interpreter software solution for their products that is user customizable for specific applications.

They had a very good CNC machine Control up with the best in fact, that may have changed, when they sold the company, as it had a very limited market in the CNC control world, cost was always there biggest problem