Looking for a midrange 24x24 cnc router, need advice

[nelZ]

Hello,
I think I'm giving up building one. I use Fusion 360 and want a machine which can do plus or minus less than .005" while running Gcode from Fusion.
I've seen Shark, Laguna and others but have a concern about accuracy.
Is there encoder feedback on any midrange machine? I'm concerned taking too big a cut and losing steps. For what I need accuracy is a must.
Thanks in advance!

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[TMToronto]

I have an older Onefinity Woodworker X50 CNC - a hobby CNC made in Canada. They just introduced their new Elite series which uses a Masso Touch controller and Masso closed loop steppers. It is an excellent price point for what you get.- spindle and VFD would be extra. Differing opinions in forums on the Masso controller, and closed loop steppers in general, but it might be worth a look.

https://www.onefinitycnc.com/post/in...wered-by-masso

https://www.onefinitycnc.com/post/in...utting-machine

[nelZ]

Th! I'll check it out.

[mactec54]

Hello,
I think I'm giving up building one. I use Fusion 360 and want a machine which can do plus or minus less than .005" while running Gcode from Fusion.
I've seen Shark, Laguna and others but have a concern about accuracy.
Is there encoder feedback on any midrange machine? I'm concerned taking too big a cut and losing steps. For what I need accuracy is a must.
Thanks in advance!

Yes, if you have an AC servo Motor / Drive machine (which will have encoders) or build it, then yes you can easily achieve .001 on a home-built machine, there are not many machines out there that can get close to that in reality definitely not the one-infinity which I have seen in action and none of the machines you mentioned

[nelZ]

Looks good off the bat. Their website doesn't say what a "stiffy" is except it's not free anymore ???

[awerby]

It's optional, but with the "Suckit" attachment it will have a better workflow.

[mactec54]

Looks good off the bat. Their website doesn't say what a "stiffy" is except it's not free anymore ???

If you are referring to the Oneinfinity, I guess you don't know what you are looking at then, it is a very primitive design that used to be made years ago, Round Rails and lead screws are long gone from the Hobby market, for new machine manufacture, now any of the better builds will be using Linear Rails and Ballscrews

What material do you want to cut??

[mactec54]

nelZ
Here is a machine that is worth looking at and has the spec's you were asking for, once you understand what to look for by looking at this machine then you will be able to compare the different machines

https://www.avidcnc.com/benchtop-pro...kit-p-314.html

[nelZ]

Thanks. They list cutting and rapid speeds but it comes without motors.
I suppose planting servos and encoders on it is something to consider.
The Onefinity has ball bearings on those shafts and they have ballscrews now.
They list closed loop steppers. What does it do, act like a servo system, or just error out when steps are lost?

[nelZ]

I seem to have an aversion to steppers. I've used them for linear tables for some products and use them now in colorant dosers on our molding machines but I'd really like servos and absolute encoders like on my Bandit, Haas, and Anilam machines. I've never had issues with them.
AvidCNC does not list full packages. They sell the frame and drive packages separately.
Maybe I should use my Camsoft, AMC drives and Galil stuff, get some smaller servos and go the Avid route. I've done retrofits before.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,
servos with encoders are certainly the way to go. I'm less certain that you need absolute encoders and more importantly a controller which closes the loop, it adds
cost and complexity which is not really required.

Most AC servos, such a s my preferred Delta B2 series, close the loop, but at the drive. That means that a simple (and cheap) Step/Dir motion control is all that is required.
The servo/drive closed loop response is all and every bit as good and in some cases better than a motion control that closes the loop. Should the servo ever become overloaded to the
extent that the servo cannot keep up it will error out 'following error', and in absence of that error you can be assured that the servo is within the (programmable) following error window.

Using servos of that description would allow you to replace the steppers, closed loop or otherwise, on a machine with a Step/Dir motion control like the AvidCNC.

Craig

[nelZ]

Absolutes make the homing limit switches less critical if you want to power down and restart your operation the next day. But then I've always worked incremental on jobs I do so that isn't critical
.

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

Absolutes make the homing limit switches less critical if you want to power down and restart your operation the next day.

Agreed. My servos are incremental types and yet with good home switches I have no trouble referencing the machine to better than 0.01mm which is entirely adequate.
Most AC servo manufacturers have models that do have absolute encoders, and even multiturn absolute encoders which render home switches almost redundant. Is the
extra cost of those higher spec'ed models really worth it? Even the cheaper incremental models are still a closed loop servo and a major step up in performance
over a stepper of any description.

Craig

[nelZ]

We're on the same page. My Haas is the only one I can shut down, come in the next day and use my G5X's. That's nice since I make injection molds.
The Avid has 2 ranges. one has a beefier gantry support.
I've been looking for the Delta motors you spec'ed. Anyplace you've gotten them on the cheap?

[joeavaerage]

Hi,

I've been looking for the Delta motors you spec'ed. Anyplace you've gotten them on the cheap?

I have used this company on a number (4) of occasions with complete satisfaction, not always the cheapest but always very close to the cheapest:

https://www.fasttobuy.com/

The two stand-out value for money buys are the 750W B2:

https://www.fasttobuy.com/flange-80m...er_p28084.html

Or the 400W B2:

https://www.fasttobuy.com/220v-127nm...ol_p28069.html

Note that this company has their own brand, ToAuto, which are very well priced. If you are familiar with servos then they would be a good bet. With less familiarity of servos I would recommend Delta
on the basis of better documentation and free setup and tuning software.

Craig

[mactec54]

Hi,
servos with encoders are certainly the way to go. I'm less certain that you need absolute encoders and more importantly a controller which closes the loop, it adds
cost and complexity which is not really required.

Most AC servos, such a s my preferred Delta B2 series, close the loop, but at the drive. That means that a simple (and cheap) Step/Dir motion control is all that is required.
The servo/drive closed loop response is all and every bit as good and in some cases better than a motion control that closes the loop. Should the servo ever become overloaded to the
extent that the servo cannot keep up it will error out 'following error', and in absence of that error you can be assured that the servo is within the (programmable) following error window.

Using servos of that description would allow you to replace the steppers, closed loop or otherwise, on a machine with a Step/Dir motion control like the AvidCNC.

Craig

Absolute is the normal Encoder to be using for any machine building like this, it is the industry standard

[mactec54]

We're on the same page. My Haas is the only one I can shut down, come in the next day and use my G5X's. That's nice since I make injection molds.
The Avid has 2 ranges. one has a beefier gantry support.
I've been looking for the Delta motors you spec'ed. Anyplace you've gotten them on the cheap?

Dmm AC Servos if you are going that route

https://dmm-tech.com/