Build Thread Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech. - Page 2


Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 21 to 34 of 34

Thread: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

  1. #21
    Member pari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    87
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    In general, you can space out that existing plate
    what do you mean by this?
    It's interesting to see how you've done your Z slide. You have it in reverse to mine i.e. you've got the carriages fixed to the gantry and the rials on the back of the sliding plate, which I like the look of. All the bits that can get debris in them are hidden behind the long plate, and the long plate that has the spindle housing attached to it would lend itself better to permanently fixing my Perske spindle to it as it has the fixing bolts at either end of its length, quite far apart, top and bottom.
    Any reason why you did it like that, or was that roughly how it was originally?Any reason why you didn't by an off the shelf Z axis, would you now in retrospect. (forgive me if you've already answered this, it's late here and I'm really tired, so my brain isn't working)



    Quote Originally Posted by gfacer View Post
    Post a photo of your X (along gantry I mean) bearings, be curious what they look like from the photos you did post.
    Which bearings do you mean. Happy to post pics, but I'm not sure where you mean.

    These are the main components of the Z with the bearings in place.

    Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-1-jpgRetrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-2-jpgRetrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-3-jpgRetrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-4-jpgRetrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-5-jpgRetrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-6-jpgRetrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-5-jpgRetrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-7-jpg



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Last edited by pari; 07-05-2016 at 09:04 AM.


  2. #22
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    447
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Hi Pari,

    The bearings that probably are still on the gantry after you removed all those bits in your photos. Still trying to figure your stuff out...

    Yeah, your's is way different than mine....except that the limitations of mine are largely also built into yours....but mine sort of has to be the way it is due to my bearings (their is one rod on the top and bottom of my gantry beam, so it needs to have a rigid connection between the two...and the original rigid connection was the Z linear rods).

    If you can lose the red part and keep the rest of the aluminum, I would just make a spacer (if needed for clearance of any bits) and then buy a pre-assembled Z axis, mount the motor you have, then mount the spindle....you might be able to reuse the existing spindle mount plates, but not sure.

    Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-multicam-retrofit-01-7-jpg



  3. #23
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    447
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Ok, since I just read your thread (or caught up anyways). I see the bearings now....interesting.

    The really odd thing is that the machines are so close despite different brands (including the problematic design choices in places)....not sure who was copying who at the time, or maybe they were working together? Anyways, either the above advice, or mount a new Z axis assembly to the bearing block on the gantry directly and then try to mount that motor plate for the across gantry drive to the new assembly. That would keep the weight of the spindle slightly closer to the gantry, which is good.



  4. #24
    Member pari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    87
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    The really odd thing is that the machines are so close despite different brands (including the problematic design choices in places)....not sure who was copying who at the time, or maybe they were working together? Anyways, either the above advice, or mount a new Z axis assembly to the bearing block on the gantry directly and then try to mount that motor plate for the across gantry drive to the new assembly. That would keep the weight of the spindle slightly closer to the gantry, which is good.
    I think MultiCam is or was an American company, so that might account for some design similarities.
    I have a feeling that my machine is like the budget version. It is also known as 'Designer' series, which kind of makes me feel that it was targeted at none industry market, hence some design short cuts that got the job done just about but were as cheap as they could make it.
    I agree with your method for a 'start from fresh' approach to the Z. A new Z slide attached the the massive carriage and then attach the pinion housing for the Y (gantry rack and pinion) coming of the back. At the moment the gantry plate that has/had the purple cover over it, and currently houses both the motors for the Z and Y, is notched into the Z's vertical plate and then has two screws to tighten it all together. I could do something similar to an off the shelf Z slide; notch and screw in the gantry Y plate using the same notch and screw dimensions. There would also be room to add a couple of re-enforcing brackets if I really wanted to make things sturdy.

    Mock up using back of current plate as if it is the new Z axis plate.
    Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-y-axis-rack-plate-retrofit-jpg



  5. #25
    Member pari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    87
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Quote Originally Posted by pari View Post
    I think MultiCam is or was an American company, so that might account for some design similarities.
    I have a feeling that my machine is like the budget version. It is also known as 'Designer' series, which kind of makes me feel that it was targeted at none industry market, hence some design short cuts that got the job done just about but were as cheap as they could make it.
    I agree with your method for a 'start from fresh' approach to the Z. A new Z slide attached the the massive carriage and then attach the pinion housing for the Y (gantry rack and pinion) coming of the back. At the moment the gantry plate that has/had the purple cover over it, and currently houses both the motors for the Z and Y, is notched into the Z's vertical plate and then has two screws to tighten it all together. I could do something similar to an off the shelf Z slide; notch and screw in the gantry Y plate using the same notch and screw dimensions. There would also be room to add a couple of re-enforcing brackets if I really wanted to make things sturdy.

    Mock up using back of current plate as if it is the new Z axis plate.
    Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-y-axis-rack-plate-retrofit-jpg
    P.S For some reason I thought you were in America. But it seems your in Sydney. Doh!


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



  6. #26
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    17
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    I know this is very old but do you have any video of these machines cutting



  7. #27
    Member cncmakers001's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    China
    Posts
    161
    Downloads
    1
    Uploads
    3

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Looks very nice!

    http://cncmakers.com/cnc/controllers/CNC_Controller_System/CNC_Retrofit_Package.html


  8. #28
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    447
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Reviving this thread for a bit. I mothballed this machine when I was 95% finished and didn't really need to use it. Now, my chinese 5 x 10 ATC spindle died so I revived this project as something to finish and sell to an old employee.

    I have the spindle controlled by UCCNC now, table secured and level, machine squared, etc etc.

    Vacuum system, which was a two motor shopvac type raw motor box.....isn't great but the good news is it's useable and I think, just dug up the old email, I'm running the 220v motors at 110v so maybe they are ok at 220!

    However, the worst part is that the movement across the gantry is really not good. There is a lot of flex in the gantry but not sure if that is the main cause of the chatter or if it's something else......I'll probably start a new post on that issue. I will try to finish this thread off with some finished pictures of everything.



  9. #29
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    447
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    I have decided it's probably not the gantry itself as such....that might not be true under a heavy load but I'm doing anything but right now.

    The movement with the pinion off is smooth enough, the pinion is rough. That might be just that it is engaged too far or maybe something else. I'm going to try with some less pressure and see what happens. Problem is, versus more modern designs, is that there isn't really the ability to have the pinion float up and down at all say like I think cncrouter parts designs do.....that would likely work better. The way it has been I'm probably better off with backlash than the rough movement but it would be great if I could have the best of both.



  10. #30
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    447
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    I think I figured this out.....need to fab some parts.

    Going the pivot route. one screw will have a bearing, the other 3 will have washers to guide swing against the existing hardware and a spring to hold the pinion up to the rack. I need to mount the whole motor assemble differently.....but maybe in a better way too. I suppose the same thing, if I can do it, would be good for the Y rails too.

    Post pictures later.



  11. #31
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    447
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Working like a champ now. Spring idea didn't really work but using a pivot point helped all the same to get a light engagement to the rack from the pinion, then tightened down.

    Relatively underpowered for the Vac still, even with 220v supplied, but it is better. Smooth motion, backlash compensation is working extremely well in UCCNC and the holes I am cutting are better than my big machine which admittedly needed some love.

    Having an estop show up from time to time, ghost estop I mean. I am grateful that UCCNC recovers from that gracefully, can start right back up where I was.

    Making money with it right now, so that's good!



  12. #32
    Member pari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    87
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Quote Originally Posted by gfacer View Post
    Working like a champ now. Spring idea didn't really work but using a pivot point helped all the same to get a light engagement to the rack from the pinion, then tightened down.

    Relatively underpowered for the Vac still, even with 220v supplied, but it is better. Smooth motion, backlash compensation is working extremely well in UCCNC and the holes I am cutting are better than my big machine which admittedly needed some love.

    Having an estop show up from time to time, ghost estop I mean. I am grateful that UCCNC recovers from that gracefully, can start right back up where I was.

    Making money with it right now, so that's good!
    Post some pics. Glad you got somewhere with it, these old machines are a bit quirky.
    I wasn’t quite following your description of the rack and pinion set up- but the mist of it as I understand was there’s not spring tension on it?

    I might as well give a little update whilst this thread is open again as I always intended to do so but never got round to it.
    So I have to say my machine is about 200% better than when I first got it and it was running of an old desktop pc running Toolpath on Windows 98.
    Since then I’ve added homing switches on all axis.
    I ripped out all of the old control box and wiring and replaced it with a Gecko 540/ Smoothstepper Ethernet control box put together by Homann Designs and a touch screen laptop.
    I put a new Z axis on that I bought from China, which is a massive improvement from that gravity fed Z axis it originally had.
    I only very recently found an VFD that was perfect for my vacuum pump that came with the machine- 240v single phase to 3phase that has a enough suck for the table- I can’t believe all this years of running my machine and I could have had a vacuum table if I’d looked a bit harder for the right VFD, better late than never.
    This led onto me fixing and patching up my bed, that was severely scared. Ended up using some aluminium epoxy putty for most of it and for one big gouge, mixing aluminium powder in epoxy and pouring it in to let it self level. With the addition of foam strips in the Top slots I have a nice vacuum.

    The next upgrades are coming soon and I have the hardware already.
    One is replacing the single massive linear rail with two Hiwin HGR 20mm linear rails. I might have to do something with the side of the gantry to re- gain some of the cutting area width I will loose as the two carriages are going to be wider than the single big one and the wider Z back plate will interfere with the X axis sliders.
    The next upgrade is to put a water cooled 2.2kw metal cutting spindle. Mind you I only received it last week and I was a bit freaked at how much heavier it is, and that’s before the water is put in. So I don’t know how that will work out.

    My machine is a lot more capable but I have some ways to go.

    I would like to put a question out there for anybody reading this, maybe you can help- with the upgrades I have a different stepper motor on the Y axis now than use to be, the old one snapped where the screws go in so a got one with higher torque and amps. I don’t know if that’s the factor for the problem I’m experiencing. When I cut internal right angles the diagonal corners are more rounded than the other set on diagonal corners. I suspect it’s something to do with acceleration and tuning, but I tuned the motors so they worked best as I could get them to sound. Please help, any suggestions?

    Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-5b49e60b-56ad-40b3-8278-a7ee48bce0c9-jpgRetrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-ef820f41-11d3-4400-b33c-7f401d79253a-jpg

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-0e6f9453-581d-4b7e-ae9c-f45fd403b391-jpg   Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.-47c4e725-7007-4b41-b3d3-659ecec3d322-jpg  


  13. #33
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    447
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Acceleration, maybe, but what is there to tune on a stepper? Nothing usually. It sounds like you changed one of the two y motors? I still don't think that matters, although if you also changed the pinion that might matter.

    I could see, based on my system and the general level that these machines are at this old, that you might have a different amount of deflection in one direction than another. I know my spindle, when I pull on it, has quite a bit of deflection due to the weak gantry construction.

    If that single bearing design you speak of was off-centered or even if just something was worn on one side of the races then the other, you might have uneven cutting.

    I guess the troubleshooting test would be cutting the other direction, clockwise versus counterclockwise and thus climb versus conventional cutting as well, and see if that makes any difference. I'd also try a very light cut, or a cut in very foamy material and see if the same thing happens.





    Sent from my motorola one using Tapatalk



  14. #34
    Member pari's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    87
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default Re: Retrofitting a $1000 1992(!) Camtech.

    Thanks for the suggestions, I hadn’t considered deflection. So some testing sounds like my next step to find out what’s what.
    I also have a lot of movement in the Z axis when I pull on it- some of it I think is in the big bearing but also I noticed that the plate the spindle is attached also flexes under weight, it’s only 5 or 6 mm thick. But that should be sorted with the new bracket on the water cooled spindle once it’s fitted... except as I mentioned above I’m a little concerned with the bloody weight of that thing, might add another set of issues!

    Let me know how you pinion mod’ goes. Mine has sprung pinions but the springs are piddly, defo could be better.



Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.

Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.

Retrofitting a 00 1992(!) Camtech.