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  1. #301
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    Khalid, I was looking something than I think wrong in your gcode

    G01 X-2.7 Y-6.9 Z-2------ Z-2 is OK
    G01 Z10 ----I think that here should be Z-8 to complete 360degree movement in wheel -If you set Z10 wheel turns inverse.
    M786

    Please check and let me know

    Bye

    Rene

    Last edited by Rene Nuñez Paz; 04-09-2010 at 12:38 PM. Reason: Correcting Z-10 x Z10


  2. #302
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    Hi Rene,
    The code you referring is for example purpose my code was like the same you are using.
    G01 X-5.3 Y-13.7 Z-2
    G01 Z-8
    M786
    G01 X-7 Y-12.9 Z-2
    G01 Z-8
    M786
    G01 X-8.3 Y-12.5 Z-2
    G01 Z-8
    M786

    I don't know whats happening..
    Can you post screen shots of your Mach3 configuration!!!

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


  3. #303
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    Here M786 macro is implemented... Just replace the executable with old one and make sure M786 macro is within the Macro folder of Mach3..

    1- This Macro is implemented for "Z" moves only
    2- The Gcode for "A" axis will remain the same with G92

    Attached Files Attached Files
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


  4. #304
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    Hi Khalid,

    What screen shots of my mach configuration do you need?

    Sorry to be late in answer, I wasn't at home, this morning.

    Rene



  5. #305
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    Okay .. help me configuring Steps/unit of my setup:

    SEWING WHEEL STEPPER MOTOR:

    Stepper Motor = 200 step/revolution
    stepping Mode = 1/2 step
    =400 step/revolution
    I have connected the stepper motor with machine shaft with 1:1 tooth belt pully:
    How i configure it in Mach3 so that 10mm=1revolution?

    Regards

    PS:
    This is very very basic question from me.. it seems that i am getting old and my brain is now going to retire...

    Last edited by Khalid; 04-10-2010 at 03:57 PM.
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


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    Hello Khalid

    Downloaded and installed new update, works perfectly, thanks

    I send you some questions.

    1-Generated G CODE for Floral Bucket is this way...

    G90
    G21
    G64
    F 1500
    (NEEDLE UP RAPID MOVE- Light bulb Off if On)
    M09
    G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2
    G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2
    G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2
    G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2
    I need to know what meanings in embroider this 4 similar lines,. If is this lines are necessary, then It should be a M786 Macro line after last G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2 , to reset Z.

    2-I think than in your software, Z movements should be by default in this way

    Z MOVES activated
    Short Z = -2
    Z moves = -8

    If some one wants to modify and use another setting or value, is free to do it, but it seems, than set this values in default mode are logic and practical for majority of users.

    3-If is possible, when you make another update, is a good thing if you includes another option in G CODE Parameters. It will be a M7 and a M9 Lines, for needle job. using a AC-DC motors in combination with electric diagram similar like I posted 2 days ago, In this case, is possible set this option and not use Z or A settings.

    By the way, I was looking in electronic equipment pages and found an electric controller for rapid start/stops of lights or another equipment, this don’t use a magnetic starter, its using a TRIACS, electronic components, It’s not the controller what we need but if useful for an idea, to we need for controlled start/stop of ac/dc motor in sewing machine, and don’t use a stepper in this case.

    4-I was looking in Wilcom Spanish tutorial, and read than one must set at beginning and finish embroider work, a some kind of stitches combination, called like this “nudo de seguridad de las puntadas”, to get firm embroider work, In g code generated are this lines?

    5-I was reading about cross stitches embroider work, Actually Iam using SophieSew , and is not this kind of stitches. Do you Know if in Wilcom or another design embroider software are this stitches?

    Thanks for your help and support.

    Bye

    Rene



  7. #307
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Nuñez Paz View Post
    Hello Khalid

    Downloaded and installed new update, works perfectly, thanks

    I send you some questions.

    1-Generated G CODE for Floral Bucket is this way...

    G90
    G21
    G64
    F 1500
    (NEEDLE UP RAPID MOVE- Light bulb Off if On)
    M09
    G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2
    G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2
    G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2
    G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2
    I need to know what meanings in embroider this 4 similar lines,. If is this lines are necessary, then It should be a M786 Macro line after last G00 X0.1 Y0 Z-2 , to reset Z.
    ANS: Actually only One line should be their. Later i will add M786 if the time permit...
    2-I think than in your software, Z movements should be by default in this way

    Z MOVES activated
    Short Z = -2
    Z moves = -8

    If some one wants to modify and use another setting or value, is free to do it, but it seems, than set this values in default mode are logic and practical for majority of users.

    ANS:
    My machine works with following setting
    Z MOVES activated
    Short Z = -0.4
    Z moves = -0.6




    3-If is possible, when you make another update, is a good thing if you includes another option in G CODE Parameters. It will be a M7 and a M9 Lines, for needle job. using a AC-DC motors in combination with electric diagram similar like I posted 2 days ago, In this case, is possible set this option and not use Z or A settings.


    ANS: Can be done later but it require time.. I temperorily suspended work on new revision of this software due to some problems...
    By the way, I was looking in electronic equipment pages and found an electric controller for rapid start/stops of lights or another equipment, this don’t use a magnetic starter, its using a TRIACS, electronic components, It’s not the controller what we need but if useful for an idea, to we need for controlled start/stop of ac/dc motor in sewing machine, and don’t use a stepper in this case.
    ANS: I just want to know about the outcome of your work.. Basically you can activate the motor through relay but how will you stop it.. Let us say M7 start the DC motor and when Mach3 M9 to stop the motor, the motor will run some degrees with its inertia..how to compensate it.. May be some breaking Mcode?
    4-I was looking in Wilcom Spanish tutorial, and read than one must set at beginning and finish embroider work, a some kind of stitches combination, called like this “nudo de seguridad de las puntadas”, to get firm embroider work, In g code generated are this lines?

    ANS: Yes Wilcom can be programmed to give you reinforcement stitches... The output DST file will contain this information and my software will do the reinforcement stitches as in DST.


    5-I was reading about cross stitches embroider work, Actually Iam using SophieSew , and is not this kind of stitches. Do you Know if in Wilcom or another design embroider software are this stitches?

    Ans:Wilcom support cross-stitches.
    Thanks for your help and support.

    Bye

    Rene

    Hope this answer your questions.

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


  8. #308
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    Hi,
    yesterday I tested my system... and attach is my first test results.. Actually the hoop was loose so i abandoned the embroidery the software worked fine.

    Now i have to improve the integrity of my system and redesign the hoop holding system..

    The stitches and the thread tension seems good.. Only problem i am facing is the flex in the hoop holding system...Soon show you some more results...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-embroidery-jpg   DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-sample-jpg  
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


  9. #309
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    Hi, Khalid

    First, thanks for all your answers.

    About use a M7-M9 command

    Khalid Question
    NS: I just want to know about the outcome of your work.. Basically you can activate the motor through relay but how will you stop it.. Let us say M7 start the DC motor and when Mach3 M9 to stop the motor, the motor will run some degrees with its inertia..
    How to compensate it.. May be some breaking Mcode?

    Rene Ans
    I think than in one line it should be an M7 command, this activate a magnetic relay, then in next line put a M9 command to stop M7 operation, but thanks magnetic action, needle movement don’t stop, Stop will be using a sensor movement and a disc locate in wheel of sewing machine, this send a electric signal and disconnect magnetic relay, Inertia movement can be solved, with some displacement in disc accord to exact place than we want stop wheel movement, and get needle up.

    I found than in home is a electronic device, similar to like we need to start sewing machine motor using an M7 command , and stop it using electric contact. This is an electronic device from automatic water system supply. Is an electronic controller who 110/9V Electric Transformer, who using 3 metal bars inside water tank, and two microswich, one normally open, and other normally closed, controls star-stop of water pump. In this case, we can use an M7 command to send a signal to device and start sewing machine motor, for stop it, we may use a optical or magnetic switch and a disc in wheel of sewing machine.


    I like to see , you are begun to embroider. I saw some things in your set up, than you should check to have best performance.

    1-CNC structure is some distance to embroider area. This is cause of vibrations or another unwanted effects. You should have it more near to sewing machine as possible.

    2-Using Plexiglas sheet above Sewing machine table, is not a good idea, your are increasing working area and providing a big hoop support, but Embroider clothe is 5-6 mm away from sewing machine table, clothes must be directly on top of sewing machine table to get better stitches, good tensed, and reduce thread breakage. My first set up was similar yours and, and results wasn’t good.

    3-Inside Hoop design must includes an inside reinforcement for not horizontal movements , attach a preview than my currently design, not finished yet, just for an idea.

    A new questions

    1-I saw than in G code generated now after new update if Short Z move = -2 , and Z move is -8, than counter never arrives to -10. Before last update, in short move Z was going to -2, and later Z movement -8, and counter was in -10., and begin count down again. May be a M786 command are resetting all Z moves.. What must I do,, set first -2 and after -10 for a complete wheel revolution?

    2- Why is an M9 command at beginning of G Code generated in new update?



    Regards

    Rene

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-inside-hoop-design-jpg   DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-water-supply-automatic-system-jpg  


  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rene Nuñez Paz View Post
    Hi, Khalid

    First, thanks for all your answers.
    ANS: Thank you for asking questions...

    3-Inside Hoop design must includes an inside reinforcement for not horizontal movements , attach a preview than my currently design, not finished yet, just for an idea.

    ANS: Kindly explain more.. The Artcam figure is not clear to me.. Did you make any HOOP so far.. If yes share with us...
    A new questions

    1-I saw than in G code generated now after new update if Short Z move = -2 , and Z move is -8, than counter never arrives to -10. Before last update, in short move Z was going to -2, and later Z movement -8, and counter was in -10., and begin count down again. May be a M786 command are resetting all Z moves.. What must I do,, set first -2 and after -10 for a complete wheel revolution?

    ANS: Counter will never arrive to -10 because Mach3 do not add (-2)+(-8)=-10... Actually Mach3 will go to -2 first and then in next line it will move to -8... So if you want to run your system then your short Z move= -2 and Z-move should be =-10.. This way Mach3 will first move your Z-axis wheel -2 with X/Y movements and then finally in next line it will start from >-2 and upto -10..
    Hope this answer the above question.


    Yes M786 resetting all Z-moves..

    2- Why is an M9 command at beginning of G Code generated in new update?

    Ans: This was always their in previous updates too.. Actually i kept it to trigger the relay to on/off 12W bulb...

    Regards

    Rene

    Hope this answer the questions..

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


  11. #311
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    Hi Khalid

    I am drawing a hoop, as soon am finish , share artcam file.

    Thanks for information about Z movements

    Sorry for M9, I din’t see before. Thanks for explanation

    A new question
    Is possible to have a Macro in the same line with X and Y moves?
    .
    Is is possible g code line will be

    G01 Z-8
    G01 X1 Y1 Mxxx
    G01 X1 Y2 Mxxx

    And each Mxxx will be, for example

    G01 Z-10 Fxxx (f should be calculated) attach excel example
    M786
    G01 Z-8 Fxxx

    Another thing is than in this case machine initiate x, y travel, when Needle is going up,
    This is similar to some videos than i watched in You Tube, embroider machines begins mto move hoop, when needle is goin up.

    Regards

    Rene

    Attached Files Attached Files


  12. #312
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    Hi,
    Hi Khalid

    I am drawing a hoop, as soon am finish , share artcam file.
    ANS: OK i will wait for it

    Thanks for information about Z movements

    Sorry for M9, I din’t see before. Thanks for explanation

    ANS: No problem.

    A new question
    Is possible to have a Macro in the same line with X and Y moves?
    .
    Is is possible g code line will be

    G01 Z-8
    G01 X1 Y1 Mxxx
    G01 X1 Y2 Mxxx

    And each Mxxx will be, for example

    G01 Z-10 Fxxx (f should be calculated) attach excel example
    M786
    G01 Z-8 Fxxx

    ANS: Actually why not we make the whole system very simple... Just see the attached figures:..

    FIG A: This is the initial condition of my machine before embroidering.

    FIG-B:Now first i will move the needle down alongwith movement of Hoop (X/Y). In this case the needle will be kept say 4~5mm above the cloth. And the system will stop. just see the Gcode.

    G01 X2.1 Y1.2 Z2 (The Z value is rough value for example only).

    FIG-C: Now the hoop stopped and i will have a rapid movement of Needle inside the cloth. The needle will go inside the cloth and return above 5mm the cloth, and no hoop movement will take place. The Gcode will be like this

    G01 Z4

    FIG-D: Now after previous rapid move, the hoop and needle will start moving and will go to the top limit and will move down just above the cloth 4~5mm.

    G01 X1.3 Y 3.2 Z8


    or something like this

    G01 X1 Y2 Z2 '' Just above cloth 5mm
    G01 Z4 " Rapid move inside the cloth and needle return above 5mm
    M786 " Zero the Z
    G01 X2 Y3 Z6 " Now the needle goes up and then down to approx. 5mm above cloth and hoop moves too
    M786 " Forcing Z DRO 0
    G01 Z4
    G01 X3 Y4 Z6
    --
    ---
    ---

    Another thing is than in this case machine initiate x, y travel, when Needle is going up,
    This is similar to some videos than i watched in You Tube, embroider machines begins mto move hoop, when needle is goin up.

    Regards

    Rene

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-jpg   DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-b-jpg   DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-c-jpg   DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-d-jpg  

    DIY- CNC Embroidery Machine-aa-jpg  
    Last edited by Khalid; 04-14-2010 at 04:03 AM.
    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


  13. #313
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    Default Needle Range

    Hi, Khalid.

    I like your diagrams and had been doodling with a similar idea.

    In diagram A you have a dimension of 9.0mm. What is that dimension when the needle is at the extreme bottom? I'm interested in knowing the extreme up and down needle travel. Depending on the cam lobe design of a sewing machine, one could determine the needle point position for every degree of sewing wheel rotation. (-perhaps a sinusoidal pattern?)

    I'm thinking of attempting a similar embroidery project as you and Rene are doing. I'm now looking at some preliminary design concepts. I saw an ad for an embroidery sewing machine that could vary the stitches per minute from 60 to 850. With your dimensions I could calculate, a ballpark figure, how much time the x/y hoop has to move in any direction when the needle is a certain amount above the cloth material and at a given sewing wheel RPM. This knowledge may also be useful to determine if a motor inertia and table/hoop mass will be a problem. Sewing zig-zag patterns could excite the resonance of the mechanical components and thus cause too much noise or vibration.



  14. #314
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    Quote Originally Posted by KOC62 View Post
    Hi, Khalid.

    I like your diagrams and had been doodling with a similar idea.

    In diagram A you have a dimension of 9.0mm. What is that dimension when the needle is at the extreme bottom? I'm interested in knowing the extreme up and down needle travel. Depending on the cam lobe design of a sewing machine, one could determine the needle point position for every degree of sewing wheel rotation. (-perhaps a sinusoidal pattern?)

    Ans: The 9mm is when the Needle is at extreme top...the needle shaft just left 9mm in my case, after that the needle coming down...
    I agree, i have to Map a sinosidual pattern, just if you have seen in ENgine Firing sequence... This will give us better idea...



    I'm thinking of attempting a similar embroidery project as you and Rene are doing. I'm now looking at some preliminary design concepts. I saw an ad for an embroidery sewing machine that could vary the stitches per minute from 60 to 850. With your dimensions I could calculate, a ballpark figure, how much time the x/y hoop has to move in any direction when the needle is a certain amount above the cloth material and at a given sewing wheel RPM.
    Ans: The X/Y movement is very fast.. This is because we have no load on Hoop except its weight and a little weight/drag by the cloth.. So this Hoop movement is no problem.. We are facing no resonance issues with it too.. Currently we are facing in slow speed of Wheel (100 SPM)this is because we are using stepper..and at high speed stepper loosees torque... So we are finding a way to move the wheel with something else like a relay controlled DC motor ... but in software currently we are accomodating as fast as we can by generating optimum Gcode for stepper system...

    This knowledge may also be useful to determine if a motor inertia and table/hoop mass will be a problem. Sewing zig-zag patterns could excite the resonance of the mechanical components and thus cause too much noise or vibration.
    ANS: Currently no resonance observed
    Hope this answers the questions asked.

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


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    Hello

    Knalid thanks for your clear explanation, I will read carefully I don't want loss any detail, english is not my native idiom and some times any thing are not understood. May be you happens the same in my bad written English, sorry.

    I’m thinking in buy this controller, but I can’t see an output pins for connection for a SSR, light, ecc,
    If possible to make connections directly to out pins in LTP port connector?
    Is a good choice in price, but if not is possible get this connections, should select another controller. Are appreciatte suggestions of controller to buy in USA.

    I will appreciate some kind of help

    Bye

    Rene

    ps-Attach picture of controller, and hoop desing. Iam "ziipping" all files, because my speed connection is very slow. I hope you understand.
    In hoop elipse lines, are not very pretty, I don't know, if you can fix it, i will thanks

    Attached Files Attached Files


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    Thanks Khalid, that helps.

    NEEDLE STROKE:
    The only question not answered was the needle "stroke" length. But that may be machine dependent. I'm acquiring a used sewing machine soon, so I can measure it when I get it.

    DC MOTOR BRAKING:
    I didn't pay close attention to how you are controlling the DC motor. I think you control it with a relay via a MACH command? One thought was to use dynamic braking. Have one set of relay contacts apply power to the DC motor and when this relay is turned off have a second set of contacts short the DC motor terminals. Adding a power resistor in series with the relay contacts and motor could fine tune the amount of braking. A "snubber" may be required to minimize contact arcing. An electronic version could also work, but may be more expensive to design. I have not experimented with this technique so it is a theory for now.



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    Hi

    Khalid,
    I agree totally with your last G Code, now needle moving in same hoop movement is during 40% of needle movement, (before was 20%).

    50% of needle movement is when it’s inside cloth and we are leaving only a 5% of margin in both sides of movement. More than a 40% of work together of needle and hoop is impossible to get. I think than this could give possibility than Embroidery work can do it faster.

    I made a revision of new G code created of floral bucket, and new parameters given for you and saw this:

    1-First line in G code should be modified for an initial Z movement -0.2 . Second line should be modified to set Z move = -0.8 .

    2- When thread change, should be modified Z movements. Previous line before thread change should be Z= -0.2 and after thread change should be Z= -0.2 for the first line and Z-0.8 for second line.

    3- At beginning, in thread change and in the ending of file, are several G00 moves, that’s had Z movement = -0.4. If are rapid moves , don’t should be this Z movements.

    May be you can place a new buttons for new movements.

    Sorry for non totally good news. I hope you can fix it easily,

    This weekend, I should beginning building of my embroider structure. My design is very simple, I think in finish it as soon as possible. I don’t have plans yet, but I will share my sketches when finish if build works properly.

    Regards

    Rene



  18. #318
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    RENE.. I liked your documentation.. I will soon make some amendment in the software and will discuss here... Hope, we are moving in the right direction
    Regards

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


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    Rene, that is good information.

    It tells me that a typical sewing machine can provide about 40% of a wheel's rotation time for moving the hoop. I was looking for this type of info.
    e.g. assume that I want 600SPM (stitches per minute) for embroidery, which gives 10 stitches per second, or 1 stitch every 100msec. Based on Rene's observation this leaves 40msec to move the hoop to the next stitch position.
    This will give me some idea of how fast the hoop needs to move and Mach3 needs to send G-codes for 600SPM while keeping the wheel-hoop synchronized.

    Your present setup does 100SPM? Faster speeds loses stepping motor steps, right? I'm trying to understand where your sewing speed limitations are coming from.



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    Hello

    Attach an excel file, there you can find some considerations about Z movements and Set UP for Z axis in Motor Tuning.

    I think than is possible facility work to final user, when gives information to software. I think than is enough to give distance between needle and sewing machine and Machine Safe Z, than depends , first one in each sewing machine, and second in Embroidery type work, or cloth thickness.

    Other information like, Z values etc, should not be visible to user, for prevent mistakes in moment to give information to software.

    Please check it , maybe are useful for your software.

    KOC62
    My problems are majority mechanicals, also, my controller set up is 800 steps/revolution, for that reason I cant turn at high speed without loose steps, Z axis should be set upt at Full or Half Step, no more than this.
    In Attached table is my Z axis set up. You will see I am at 200RPM=spm


    Regards

    Rene

    Attached Files Attached Files


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