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Thread: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    great build thread and awesome machine. looking foward to seeing more updates on it



  2. #42
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Thanks junior2016.

    I have a 1-3/4” surfacing bit that I wanted to use on the spoilboard to get it perfectly in plane with the router. With a ½” shank on that bit, I wanted to use my DeWalt DW618 router. I quickly modified the CAD model of my existing mount, created the CAM setups, and cut out some new mounts from 3/4” Oak plywood. The drill press was used to make the holes for the clamping bolts.
    Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area-img_20170322_193613-medium-jpg

    With the DW618 mounted, I surfaced the spoilboard by finding the lowest spot and setting the Z height right at the surface. I turned the router on and then manually jogged it around to surface the area.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area-img_20170322_193613-jpg  
    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


  3. #43
    Member JerryBurks's Avatar
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Quote Originally Posted by jpvonoy View Post
    The whole table is shaking. I suppose I should build a dedicated stand.
    If the machine is rigid in itself and does not flex, the shaking does not matter. In a way it is even a small advantage since the required acceleration forces are lower (depends on the ratio between "moving" and "stationary" mass). I have a rather rigid machine frame on a rigid cart with swivel casters (which are not very stiff) and the whole 500+ pound thing shakes an inch or two on the casters when machining short distances at high speed. No problem, works just fine with accuracy down to typically 0.002".

    Puzzle, Finger Joint, Maze and Guilloche freeware at https://fabrikisto.com/tailmaker-software/


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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Good point Jerry. I haven't done any high accuracy work yet, but I haven't noticed any issues with the cuts I've done so far. Like you said, the whole machine is stiff so it doesn't matter how much the table moves around.

    I've been doing a little more work lately, but wanted to finish the job before posting it here.

    With the spoilboard surfaced, it was finally time to make those parts for the dust shoe that I designed a while back. My design integrates an exhaust deflector, but rather than deflect it out into the surrounding air, it deflects the router exhaust into the vacuum. The thought being that the vacuum might improve cooling through the router, and the additional velocity of air could improve the suction around the end mill. I also incorporated a magnetic removable brush so that I can easily switch between different lengths depending on the length of end mill installed. A cam lever was added to the side of the mount to enable activation of the spindle lock button to change bits without removing the whole dust shoe. This was the design concept:

    Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area-dwp611_dust_shoe-jpg

    Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area-dwp611_dust_shoe_top-jpg

    Since I have no idea how well this dust shoe will perform, I’m making a prototype first to test it out. In order to save on cost, I split the parts up into two 0.5” high sections and one 0.75” section. I first tried to cut parts out of MDF, but it was too weak and some of the smaller details broke off during milling. The 0.5” parts are cut from 0.5" HDPE sheet and were epoxied together after being cut out. The brush holder and the 0.75” thick section that clamps onto the router are made from wood since that is what was available around the shop here in the proper thicknesses. Epoxy was used to hold the magnets in place and to attach the brush. Here is a quick video of the build and test fit.



    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


  5. #45
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Oh yeah Jeremy, this thing rocks!! Phenomenal build.

    How's your overall performance been? Any big issues with flex in the wood frame on what you need to cut?

    Really cool work man. Can't wait to see the one this was built to make.

    MC

    Slow work takes time
    www.facebook.com/Bear-CNC


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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Quote Originally Posted by wednesday View Post
    Oh yeah Jeremy, this thing rocks!! Phenomenal build.

    How's your overall performance been? Any big issues with flex in the wood frame on what you need to cut?

    Really cool work man. Can't wait to see the one this was built to make.

    MC
    Thanks MC! The performance seems great so far, but I don't have much to compare it to. I intend to do some testing to measure cutter deflection with calibrated loads applied to the router in each direction. I also want to cut some patterns that I can measure afterwards to check accuracy after cutting at various speeds, depths, etc. I'm so impressed the way this turned out, that I'm thinking I may create a set of plans for this version for those who want a diy router that's a step up in performance from other available plans. This machine is what I was looking for originally and I was frustrated that no plans or kits were available in this price range and level of performance.

    It would be nice if there was a standard method or metric for determining a machine's performance in order to easily compare different machines. Maybe there is...any ideas from anyone reading this?

    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    I too am looking for a way to benchmark my machine. To make such a test, we would need to use the same cutter, with same lenght from collet to tip, same rpm, feed, etc.

    I was going to test a standard chinese 1/8 cutter at 1,2,3 mm DOC. I was thinking of a 1 inch square. Each DOC should be done with climb and conventional cutting.

    Would also do the same with a 1/4 cutter at 2,4,6 DOC... I think.

    I'm tryimg to elaborate a program, when I'm done I willl send you a copy if you are interested.

    We could do a friendly competition between wooden CNC.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs427 View Post
    I too am looking for a way to benchmark my machine. To make such a test, we would need to use the same cutter, with same lenght from collet to tip, same rpm, feed, etc.

    I was going to test a standard chinese 1/8 cutter at 1,2,3 mm DOC. I was thinking of a 1 inch square. Each DOC should be done with climb and conventional cutting.

    Would also do the same with a 1/4 cutter at 2,4,6 DOC... I think.

    I'm tryimg to elaborate a program, when I'm done I willl send you a copy if you are interested.

    We could do a friendly competition between wooden CNC.
    I like it! I would definitely like to run what you come up with and compare results. We'll have to incorporate speeds as well, and a way to characterize cut quality, or measure results for accuracy at each speed?

    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    This is not an exhaustive test but it gives an idea of the machine accuracy:
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc-wo...ml#post2032260

    Edit: I'm clueless as how to measure the finish though.



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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Quote Originally Posted by Biggs427 View Post
    This is not an exhaustive test but it gives an idea of the machine accuracy:
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc-wo...ml#post2032260
    After a business trip and some weeks of long hours at work, I finally got around to running this test that Biggs427 ran on his similarly designed wood framed router.

    Just to recap, a 2 flute, 0.25" straight cutter was used, with 5/8" LOC and 1.175" stick out or body length. The router was run at about 15000 RPM and I ramped into the cuts at 2 degrees using a 100 ipm constant feed rate.

    Here is a table comparing my results with those of Biggs427.

    Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area-cutting-comparison-table-png

    Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area-img_20170518_201615-medium-jpg

    And a video of the test:


    Next, I tried the same test using a 2 flute 0.25” upcut spiral end mill, assuming it would have less runout than the cheap straight router bit that I used for the previous test. Since I had similar results across each DOC on the previous test, I just ran this one at 0.125” DOC. The results were significantly better for the conventional cut, and slightly better for the climb cut. In the future I will run a test that will more closely reflect an operational scenario: a rough cut pass followed by lighter finish cuts. That should improve the accuracy a lot more.

    Conventional Cut, 0.125" DOC:
    X: 0.994"
    Y: 0.994"

    Climb Cut, 0.125" DOC:
    X: 1.005"
    Y: 1.005"

    Still not happy with these results, I measured the runout on my DeWalt DW618 router with OEM collet. I installed a precision blank with 1.175" stick out and then using a DTI, I measured 0.004” of runout. So, I think that means the machines flex and the accuracy of the mechanical components would be closer to 0.001". I am assuming the end mill I used also has more runout than the precision blank.

    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Quote Originally Posted by jpvonoy View Post
    In the future I will run a test that will more closely reflect an operational scenario: a rough cut pass followed by lighter finish cuts. That should improve the accuracy a lot more.
    Yes, it could be "spring" in the system, either from frame members flexing, even the tool itself. The results are not surprising, as conventional pulls the tool into the cut and the opposite with climb.



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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    These results are much alike no big difference here.

    One thing I need to make certain is the real width of my cutter. I've learned that there's no such thing a as a 0.250" cutter. LOL My wrost being my Freud 2 flute upcut which is 0.239... The 2 flute straight cutter I did the test with is luckily the nearest to 0.25 I own; I measured between 0.250 and 0.249.

    One thing I did differently in my test is the ramp angle. Since I manually programmed the test, I didn't want to bother with angles so I ramped the DOC over one inche like this:
    Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area-ramp-jpg

    Still not happy with these results, ...
    If you're like me, you'll never be.

    So, I think that means the machines flex and the accuracy of the mechanical components would be closer to 0.001".
    I don't have a test indicator to measure runout but with a simple dial indicator I can measure movement at the cutter when I push hard enough. This, I think, is where our material choice starts to show its shortcoming.



  13. #53
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    There were older threads here that gave pointers about machine static rigidity measured in pounds per inch flex. Actually very easy to measure with a cheap dial indicator and a fishing or luggage scale. Basically you put a round blank in the collet, move the tip to the most likely machining position and set the dial indicator first in x direction against the blank tip. Then you tug with the scale hook in this direction and the opposite direction as well, e.g. with measured 20 or 50 lbs and take a note of the dial indicator reading. Then do the same thing in y direction.
    Divide the displacement in inch by the pounds of the scale and you have an objective rigidity performance metric.

    I believe a good rule of thumb is if that is less than 100 lbs/inch the machine is useless. If between 100 and 1000 lbs/inch it is usable for very light to light duty wood work. Between 1000 and 10,000 lbs/inch for a reasonable wood router and light aluminum jobs. Over 10,000 lbs/inch this is heavy duty machinery. Obviously there is a sliding usability scale within these ranges.

    The test will also show backlash as the indicated residual displacement after pulling in opposite directions.

    Here is the post with the results for my BigBamboo machine: http://www.cnczone.com/forums/cnc-wo...ml#post1065862. I did the measurement slightly different with 2 scales and moving the axis but found later it can be done simpler and better with a single scale.
    As you can see the machine frame including gantry is really rigid and the machine material (Bamboo plywood in this case) is not the problem. But the round linear bearings of the y and z axis are the weak link. That said, I have used the machine now for 5 years and it works well for my purposes.

    Puzzle, Finger Joint, Maze and Guilloche freeware at https://fabrikisto.com/tailmaker-software/


  14. #54
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Although I have been quiet on this forum lately, I have been busy on my project. Since my last post, I have done the following:


    • Added an emergency stop switch to my machine
    • Added a laser to my machine for engraving and cutting
    • Made my first cuts in Aluminum, using finish passes, resulting in +/-0.002” accuracy
    • Researched and purchased a few styles of home/limit switches to try out (still in progress)
    • Performed the static rigidity test that JerryBurks described above
    • Wrote an eBook, Introduction to CNC Router Design
    • Created a website to share what I have learned with others
    • Created a Version 2 of my CNC design in CAD with some improvements that will make it easier for someone else to build a copy of this machine and to improve rigidity based on my testing
    • Started creating detailed drawings of Version 2 to be able to offer plans to others (still in progress)
    • Used my CNC router and laser for some small jobs


    I will post some more details on all of the above soon.

    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


  15. #55
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Emergency stop switch

    I haven’t had a need yet for an e-Stop switch, but I figured I should go ahead and install it before the need arises! I’m still amazed at how quickly I can model a part, create the CAM setup, and then create the part on the CNC machine. I’m still not very proficient, yet it was only about an hour to model the bracket, create the CAM setup and toolpaths, and produce a g-code file to bring out to my machine, all with Fusion 360. I cut the bracket from some scrap 0.25” plywood and mounted the switch on the front of the machine. One side of the switch was wired to pin 10 on the Gecko G540 breakout and the other side connected to ground on the power supply.



    Solid State Laser
    After a lot of research, I went ahead and ordered a NUBM44 6W 450nm solid state laser. I was debating whether to use lower powered lasers that could produce a finer beam, but I wanted to try the higher power in case it could cut thicker materials or work at faster speeds. So far, I am happy with the choice. I am getting an engraved line that is 0.5mm wide in wood. That is fine enough for the work I envision doing with it.

    I purchased the laser, driver, and heatsink all as a package. The driver has two wires for the power supply, and it has an on/off control line, but there was no wire provided. I would have to solder a wire to the driver board, which is inaccessible since the board was bonded inside of the heatsink. If I were to do it again, I would order the driver separately or ask to have a lead added for the control line.

    My workaround was to connect a 12 vdc relay between the power supply and the laser driver. I wired the coil to the 12 vdc supply and Output 1 of the G540, pin 5 of the breakout. The switch contacts of the relay control the 12 vdc supply to the laser driver. I’m using M62 and M65 to switch the laser on/off in the g-code.

    Here’s a video of my first project with the laser.



    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area-estop-sm-jpg  
    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


  16. #56
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Where'd you get the laser from? I was looking at some of those the other day, and thinking about building a small dedicated laser machine with one.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

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    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  17. #57
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Where'd you get the laser from? I was looking at some of those the other day, and thinking about building a small dedicated laser machine with one.
    I ordered from DTR's Laser Shop. https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/

    If you prefer, they also have an Amazon store and an eBay store. My first order came with the wrong laser module, but the correct part was shipped out promptly and a return shipping label provided to me.

    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


  18. #58

    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    What software did you use to generate the code for the laser?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpvonoy View Post
    I ordered from DTR's Laser Shop. https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/

    If you prefer, they also have an Amazon store and an eBay store. My first order came with the wrong laser module, but the correct part was shipped out promptly and a return shipping label provided to me.




  19. #59
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    Quote Originally Posted by fretman_2 View Post
    What software did you use to generate the code for the laser?
    I used Autodesk Fusion 360 with the standard post-processor for LinuxCNC. If I remember correctly, I tried to use the built in Laser toolpaths, but they didn't have support for the LinuxCNC post yet, so I had to come up with a workaround. I setup the CAM for router engraving (with a V-bit), and had it create the g-code file. I then performed a Replace All in the g code so that everywhere it was commanding a Z down move I replaced that with the Laser On command (M62). All the Z up moves were replaced with the laser off command (M65). There were a couple of other minor cleanups I had to make at the beginning and end of the file. I can share more detail if anyone is interested.

    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


  20. #60
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    Default Re: Profile Rail Wood Frame Router, 25" x 37" x 6" working area

    First cuts in Aluminum

    I’ve been wanting to see how this machine performs when cutting aluminum. Using a piece of scrap 3/8” x 2.5” 6061 bar stock, I tried a facing operation and then some pocketing cuts. The facing pass was made with a 1.75” diameter facing bit, which made it obvious that I need to tram the router since it left a small lip between passes.

    The cutting tool used for the pockets was a general purpose 0.25” upcut 2 flute carbide end mill. The router was run at the slowest speed of around 15k-16k RPM. I used WD40 as a coolant/lubricant and used double sided tape and end stops for work holding. Once the WD40 came in contact with the tape, the adhesive didn’t hold and I had to stop the job when the part pushed aside during cutting. Next task related to this will be mounting my vise to the table to allow easier work holding.

    Before the workpiece moved, it seemed to be cutting well. I think the chips that were produced looked good. For the pockets, I used a helix entry and then full .375” depth cuts to expand the pockets. I was able to complete a couple of pockets before the part moved and I measured the accuracy at +/- 0.002”. This was accomplished using a rough pass, then a single finishing pass.

    Here’s a quick clip showing the facing operation and the first pocket.



    Jeremy
    http://www.diycncdesign.com/


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