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  1. #41
    Registered jfong's Avatar
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    When I went to lowes to buy the sheet of mdf they were out of stock. First time that happened to me. I just drove down the street to Home Depot and bought it there instead. I really wish menards would get a panel saw since they seem to stock a wider variety of sheet goods than either lowes or Home Depot. I can't fit a full 4x8 in my SUV and have to have it cut down to size. Lately I've been buying pine boards from menards. Tongue and groove ones since they seem to have less knots and warpage then the standard pine boards they sell. I rip off the t&g on the table saw. Joint and edge glue them into wider panels. They only cost $3.60 each so pretty cheap. I use my performax drum sander to surface them flat before I carve them on the cnc. MDF carves nicer than pine but I just don't like cutting the stuff due to the chemicals used to manufacture it.



  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by rwskinner View Post
    I noticed the skin of my MDF is getting somewhat gummy from being in my shop for the last week. I believe it's soaking up some of the humidity because light surface details don't show up as well and the MDF seems to shred/tear more now on shallow cuts than it used to. Deeper cuts look great.

    I have been enjoying your website. You have done some very nice work. Is the basket weave something you created or grabbed or is it something built into Aspire?
    I'm running VcarvePro 6.x now and I trying to decide if I want to spend the extra $$ on Aspire as a hobbyist or not.

    Richard
    MDF will definitely soak up moisture and swell. A concrete floor that is poured directly onto dirt will suck up moisture to the point of having wet spots during rainy spells. I put down six layers of 6 mil polyethlene landscape plastic sheeting, then 4" of gravel, then 5" of fiber filled concrete before building my shop. Blown in fiberglass insulation and a venter roof keeps my shop dry unless I open the doors during rain storms. My MDF will last longer when stored flat, but it still absorbs some amount of airborne moisture over three months time.

    The basket weave is one I created as my first effort to use the two rail sweep tool. Once you understand the concept it becomes "easy" to create complex shapes. The basket weave was requested by a friend who wanted one of the Paradise boxes for his then 5 y/o daughter. It requires using Aspire or some other 3D software that has a similar tool. The two offset weaves are created with just four vectors. Two are 1/2" tall straight vectors called "rails". One is a shape vector that represents the top surface of the weave. The last vector is a copy of the first shape vector that has been node edited to be offset by 1/2 weave. The shape vectors are the same length, and each weave is copied and joined to get the length of weave you need. The 3D weave model can be stretched or scaled, but that will distort the weave. Sometimes it is desirable though. You basically start the two rail sweep tool, select the two rail vectors and tell it to use these vectors as the rails, then choose one of the shape vectors to create the model and apply it. Then you repeat for the process for the other shape vector. You alternate the weaves by copying and pasting them to create a stack of models with no gaps between them to get the total height of weaves that you need. There are exclusion tools that let you put holes in the models or trim the models to a specific shape. Multiple shapes can be "merged" to make a more complex shape. Then those individual models can be "baked" into one model.

    I kinda got carried away with all the fun of using Aspire. Aspire has all of the tools that Vcarve Pro has, so you can keep them both or just use Aspire for everything. As a hobbyist you can install it on three machines with one license. Check the current license to make sure that's still their policy though.

    You get a significant price break to upgrade from Vcarve Pro to Aspire, and one free upgrade a year later but it's still the most expensive software I ever purchased. I have not regretted the decision to upgrade at all. I haven't tried some of it's features like fluting and rotary machining. My second paid upgrade is due sometime this spring, so I better get ready for it.

    CarveOne
    http://www.carveonecncwoodcraft.com


  3. #43
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I noticed the skin of my MDF is getting somewhat gummy from being in my shop for the last week. I believe it's soaking up some of the humidity because light surface details don't show up as well and the MDF seems to shred/tear more now on shallow cuts than it used to. Deeper cuts look great.

    Sounds like your bit is getting dull.

    If you guys want really clean and crisp MDF carvings, use epoxy. First, set your Z zero about .01" above the surface, then do your carving. When finished, coat the whole surface with epoxy (very liberally) and wipe off any that's not soaked in to un-machined areas (paper towel works good). When the epoxy cures (usually overnight), set Z zero to the surface and re-run the V-Carve, removing the .01" that you left the first time. You'll get glass smooth surfaces, that won't soak up finishes.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  4. #44
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    They were new bits, no burning or discoloration. My feeds and speed could be off as well since I'm new at this, I was running 16,000 RPM and 100 IPM with a 1/2" 60 deg. bit.

    I sure didn't mean to hijack the thread here. I just thought jfong's carving turned out really nice.

    Richard



  5. #45
    Registered jfong's Avatar
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    No problem with hijacking, I figure the more information about all of this stuff, the better we all are. My gantry is only 6months old so I'm learning something new every day. The vbit I used was brand new, having received it the day before from www.mlcswoodworking.com. I ordered a 45 degree vbit the other day. I can't say if these bits are better than others but for the price I can't complain to much.



  6. #46
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    MDF dulls bits very quickly, as it's very abrasive to tools. They don't need to be burnt or discolored to be dull. The fact that you said deeper cuts are cleaner would lead me to believe that the tip was dull.

    I've only been to Menards once. I need to go check out their selection when ( if??) the snow melts. It's a little farther drive than the 4 Home Depots around me, but I only work about 15 minutes from Menards.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  7. #47
    Registered jfong's Avatar
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    Gerry I noticed you live in Shelby. I'm in Harrison township and it snowed yet again this morning. The menards on hall road is nice and brand new. There's a bunch of Home Depot and Lowes around me but that is the only menards that I know of.



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    That sounds cool, I need to try it. Also, thanks for telling me how to do a finish cut. I was scratching my head on how to do a finish cut in a Vcarve tool path. I feel a little stupid because that should have been very obvious.

    As far as the epoxy and water based sealers, any particular products you all recommend? I do have a HD and Lowes here but that is about all besides Walmart.

    Richard

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    If you guys want really clean and crisp MDF carvings, use epoxy. First, set your Z zero about .01" above the surface, then do your carving. When finished, coat the whole surface with epoxy (very liberally) and wipe off any that's not soaked in to un-machined areas (paper towel works good). When the epoxy cures (usually overnight), set Z zero to the surface and re-run the V-Carve, removing the .01" that you left the first time. You'll get glass smooth surfaces, that won't soak up finishes.




  9. #49
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I order my epoxy from US Composites. Under $50 for 3 quarts.

    Yeah, I just shoveled another 2 inches. Yes, the one on Hall rd is where I went. I work at 15 & Groesbeck, not too far from there.
    There's another one in Livonia, but that's way too far.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  10. #50
    Registered jfong's Avatar
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    I work at 14 and Harper, just 3 miles away!



  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Sounds like your bit is getting dull.

    If you guys want really clean and crisp MDF carvings, use epoxy. First, set your Z zero about .01" above the surface, then do your carving. When finished, coat the whole surface with epoxy (very liberally) and wipe off any that's not soaked in to un-machined areas (paper towel works good). When the epoxy cures (usually overnight), set Z zero to the surface and re-run the V-Carve, removing the .01" that you left the first time. You'll get glass smooth surfaces, that won't soak up finishes.
    I assume you are using a water base epoxy and not solvent based?

    Colten Edwards [URL="http://www.cncsigns.ca"]http://www.cncsigns.ca[/URL]


  12. #52
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I've never seen a water based epoxy????

    I use the 635 thin epoxy here:

    Epoxy :Â*Epoxy Resins and Hardeners

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  13. #53
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    I had never heard of it either, but yesterday when doing a delivery to a paint store, I noticed this smell which I commented on being like epoxy. I was wrong on the smell.. At which point the paint guy told me about water based epoxy with no smell. Sherman-Williams and Rustoleum seem to make some and they are 1 part pre-catalzyed systems. I should have asked what a gallon was worth just to see if it's cost-effective.

    Colten Edwards [URL="http://www.cncsigns.ca"]http://www.cncsigns.ca[/URL]


  14. #54
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Are you sure those aren't epoxy paints?

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  15. #55
    Member cd_edwards's Avatar
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    it could be ger21. I didn't have time to ask a lot of questions about it. If it is epoxy paint, it would more than likely work just as well for the purpose of stabilizing mdf. Maybe even slightly easier

    Colten Edwards [URL="http://www.cncsigns.ca"]http://www.cncsigns.ca[/URL]


  16. #56
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I would completely disagree. But that's just a guess.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  17. #57
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    Gerry, you mention 3/4 of a gallon for under $50 so does than mean you're using the 2:1 mix?
    EPOX-6355563 1/2 Gal + 32oz = $41.95

    Richard



  18. #58
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I'd recommend the 3:1 if the temperature is under 80 degrees, as it will cure faster. The 2:1 can take a long time when it's colder.
    I've used both, but currently have the 3:1, and also keep some 4:1 hardener on hand for bonding applications.

    Actually, if you'll only be using it for coating MDF, I'd probably just go with the 4:1, as it cures a lot faster.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  19. #59
    Registered jfong's Avatar
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    Some time ago I bought a dust deputy mini cyclone to attach to my shopvac in my woodshop. It works very well to separate the dust before it clogs up the shopvac filter. It's easier to empty the 5 gallon bucket too. It cost me around $40.

    80/20 extrusion router build-imageuploadedbytapatalk1393609351-364881-jpg

    My gantry is located in another part of my basement so using the shopvac/dust deputy was not convenient. Instead of buying another mini cyclone, I bought $10 worth of PVC and made a Thein baffle. I don't think it works as good as the dust deputy but so far it has captured plenty of dust. I highly recommend anyone who uses a shopvac on their cnc to make or buy a dust separator. They work great.

    80/20 extrusion router build-imageuploadedbytapatalk1393609378-572351-jpg
    80/20 extrusion router build-imageuploadedbytapatalk1393609391-289820-jpg80/20 extrusion router build-imageuploadedbytapatalk1393609405-793503-jpg80/20 extrusion router build-imageuploadedbytapatalk1393609417-666930-jpg



  20. #60
    Registered jfong's Avatar
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    Yesterday I received my 5/16" HSS Onstrud end mills from eBay. They were super cheap 20 for $6.99 free shipping!!!! These have a pointed tip instead of a flat end. For the price I wasn't going to argue about that. I just have to gcode program the cut a little deeper for cutouts.

    I cut some mdf at 50ipm@8000rpm today with the new bit. Cut was a little rough but good enough for me. Mdf is tough on bits so once it gets dull I'll just grab a new one. I didn't want to mess up my good carbide bits on mdf. I noticed these bits probably would make a good spotting drill for the drill press and metal mill too. Good deal!!!!

    80/20 extrusion router build-imageuploadedbytapatalk1393612078-571563-jpg
    80/20 extrusion router build-imageuploadedbytapatalk1393612095-344524-jpg



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