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  1. #21
    Registered Drools's Avatar
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    Is ApplePly different that other hardwood (birch) plywoods?
    I have heard it called by many different names Russian Birch, Baltic Birch, Furniture Grade Plywood and probably more.
    They are basically hardwood, birch with more plies per inch and some guarantee there are no voids.

    Thank You.


  2. #22
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I mounted the top plate to my CNC, and routed a slot for the perimeter of the angular contact bearings, and filled it with epoxy. Tomorrow I'll pocket out the center, and pour a little more epoxy in there. When finished, the angular contact bearings will have no contact with wood. I don't want oil soaking into any wood. I could have done it in one step, but I would have used a lot more epoxy, and 90% would be routed away.

    I'm in no hurry, as I'm still fine tuning the design to make sure it's right. I added a cover for the Z axis belt drives, but needed to change it when I added the Y axis E-Chain. Now I need to model a home switch housing, and throw it on there. I'll probably lower the upper limit switch, and put the home switch above it. A single ramp will be mounted to the Z carriage to activate the limits.

    On top of the cover I'm going to have a small box between all the E-Chain to tie the limits together, and any other electrical connections I might need.

    As for the E-Chain, I need to call Igus to get some pricing. I sent an email to a chinese manufacturer on Ebay who sells a knockoff (looks like they're using images from Igus ) to see if he has what I need, as it needs to have a specific bend radius to work right. I'd prefer the Igus, but if I can get the 2 Z axis chains for $25 from China, I may have to go that route. But I'd be willing to pay about $60-$75 for real Igus.

    I've also fixed the AutoCAD model to match what I'm cutting.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Z²-render-4-jpg   Z²-render-5-jpg  
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  3. #23
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drools View Post
    Is ApplePly different that other hardwood (birch) plywoods?
    I have heard it called by many different names Russian Birch, Baltic Birch, Furniture Grade Plywood and probably more.
    They are basically hardwood, birch with more plies per inch and some guarantee there are no voids.
    There are 3 main differences with ApplePly. One, is that it has thin face veneers on top of the 1/16" core layers, where the other "baltic" birches don't have thin face veneers. Two, ApplyPly comes comes in fractional thicknesses, while all other baltic birches are metric. And ApplyPly comes in 4x8 and 4x10 sheets. Mot baltic birch is 5x5, but some manufacturers make 4x8's too.
    Other than that, they're all very similar imo.

    There are many different grades of baltic birch, from many different manufacturers. Some has exterior glue, but most uses interior glue.

    If I see "Furniture grade plywood", I normally wouldn't think it's baltic birch. It would usually be a softwood core with hardwood veneers.

    The ApplyPly I have does have some knots in the core, but no voids. I had about 300 lbs of cuttofs, from a job that used about 300 sheets.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  4. #24
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    OK, China got back to me, and don't have what I need (imagine that). I found an online Igus dealer who had it for $55, but the $20 UPS makes me cringe. But I guess it is what it is. I know it usually costs me $15 anytime I've used UPS, so I'll live with it. I'll order the 2 Z chains tomorrow.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  5. #25
    Member JerryBurks's Avatar
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    I bought 40" long new Igus chains 2" wide (outside) for $25 each on eBay with $7 shipping. These are the the convenient E/Z type that can be filled with cable from the top after installation. You would actually need a 49" long chain for your 72" axis stroke but a few links can be moved from a shorter axis chain.

    I got eBay item number 400241355536 from SurplusSam in Arizona.
    Igus design info igus® Energy Chain® Cable Carrier: Series E08

    This seller has other chain dimensions, too.



  6. #26
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Thanks. I did check Ebay, but I want specific models, with specific bending radii to work with my design. I'm not going to modify something else to save $100.
    I'm probably spending over $3000-$4000 here, so $100-$200 doesn't really matter in the big picture.

    But I'll check out that seller for my larger X and Y chains, and see if I can find what I need.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  7. #27
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    Gerry, is this the build with the extremely high accelerations?



  8. #28
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    That's the plan.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  9. #29
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Progress, but slower than I'd like. 60 hour work weeks are killing me.

    First pic is the rough machined Z screw bearing pocket. This was then filled with about 1/4" of epoxy. I realized at this point that I could have just started with a wider slot and done this in one step. Always learning something. The tricky part is remembering it for next time.

    After the second layer of epoxy cured, I finished the bearing pockets. I'll route the hole through for the screw after I change bits, as I still have a 1/8" bit in the router.

    I also routed the mortises to accept the panels that I already made. This should insure that everything goes together square. The actual location of the mortises varied a bit from the CAD drawings, mostly due to material thickness. I was able to measure two tenons with a caliper, but the other I got as close as possible with a tape measure. It ended up a little too tight, so I shaved another .005" off each side so that it's now snug, but not too tight.

    These first operations were the critical ones. The rest are easy. Next time I'll route the pockets for the 1/4-20 nuts, drill all the screw holes, cut out the motor openings and finally the profile. Should take less than an hour, due to a couple tool changes.

    I'm still playing around with mounting ideas for the Y axis E-Chain. It seems like it's going to end up extending about 4-6" past the gantry. I'd rather it didn't, but to get the wires to exit the chain where I want, it seems to be unavoidable. Not really a big deal.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Z²-y-assembly-008-jpg   Z²-y-assembly-010-jpg   Z²-y-assembly-011-jpg   Z²-y-assembly-012-jpg  

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  10. #30
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    I like the way you made an epoxy insert.

    As a suggestion, you can buy fine powdered aluminium dust (not oxide) for making aluminium/epoxy sculptures. I got some from an art shop for about $12 a pound, it is like flour but is metal. You mix that with the epoxy and it slows the thermoset so you can cast large volumes in one go with no chance of overheating on cure. The result is like you would expect from something half metal and half epoxy, it is very strong, bonds and machines well, is a good heat conductor, doesn't shrink much at all and would be excellent for your bearing mounts.



  11. #31
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I actually tried to find some inexpensive aluminum powder, but couldn't find a good source.

    I used West System's high density filler, which is made for bonding hardware to wood, and is very hard and strong.

    The epoxy I use is a very slow setting laminating epoxy, and I've yet to see it get hot. I actually used a 500watt halogen work light to speed up the cure. It was 31°F this morning, so overheating won't be much of a problem for the next 6 months or so.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  12. #32
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    Finally finished the top plate. Also had room for 1 row of spacers. The second set of spacers will be 1" thick, as I need an extra 1/4" for the E chain I'll be using. I drilled holes in the plate and spacer to glue them down, but I might just put pins in the holes for alignment and just glue and staple it all together.

    Need to order a 4mm tap tonight for the linear rail bolts, as I want to tap the holes before I assemble everything. I'm hoping to get all the holes drilled and tapped this weekend.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Z²-y-assembly-014-jpg   Z²-y-assembly-015-jpg   Z²-y-assembly-017-jpg   Z²-y-assembly-018-jpg  

    Z²-y-assembly-020-jpg  
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    I actually tried to find some inexpensive aluminum powder, but couldn't find a good source.
    ...
    Have a look in the art supplies shop if you have a local one. They have some cool stuff to mix in casting including stone powders and powder alloy and bronze materials and they also usually have bulk wax in pellets too which is useful for machining wax.

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    ...
    I used West System's high density filler, which is made for bonding hardware to wood, and is very hard and strong.

    The epoxy I use is a very slow setting laminating epoxy, and I've yet to see it get hot. I actually used a 500watt halogen work light to speed up the cure. It was 31°F this morning, so overheating won't be much of a problem for the next 6 months or so.
    Sorry I didn't know you already used a filler! Most fillers will slow down the exotherm so overheating is not an issue. I assumed you were worried about overheat as you said you did two layers, which is a common way of avoiding overheat from bulk epoxy exotherm. I'll shut up now.



  14. #34
    Member JerryBurks's Avatar
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    That is a clean concept and almost decorative (comparing to my squarish utilitarian design...).

    Does that mean you start with the z-axis and build the machine top-down? Or are you going to attach this to an existing gantry?



  15. #35
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    Yes, I start with the Z axis. That way I won't have a huge base taking up space for the year or two it takes me to build this.

    That is a clean concept and almost decorative
    Thanks. I've spent 4 years refining the design, and it's still evolving right up to cut time.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  16. #36
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    While trying to figure out where to run the wiring for the Z axis, I realized that I wasn't leaving myself room for the dust collection.
    So, I designed some ductwork to connect a single 6" hose to the 2 spindles.
    The Z axis Igus chains will mount to the duct bracket, and I'll have a small box on the back where all the limit switch (and home switches) wiring will be consolidated.

    The actual duct will probably be shorter than shown. The model is too tall, 36" from the top to the bottom of the gantry. I can probably shorten it up by 6" or so.
    To make the duct, I'll carve it out of pink foam, and then cover it with epoxy and glass cloth, then use lacquer thinner or acetone to melt out the foam.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Z²-render-6-jpg   Z²-render-7-jpg  
    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  17. #37
    Member Khalid's Avatar
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    Gerry incredible CAD craftmanship.. Really can not wait to see it working..

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


  18. #38
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    Default A dust collection idea

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    While trying to figure out where to run the wiring for the Z axis, I realized that I wasn't leaving myself room for the dust collection.
    Tulsa Turbo redesigned the dust collection shoe on his Shop Droid. Instead of having the hose, and concomitant connection, on the spindle side, he made a new shoe and has the hose coming from the back side.

    I cannot find the photograph of it.

    Maybe this idea will help you.



  19. #39
    Member ger21's Avatar
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    I've seen it, but that's not what I'm looking for.
    I was talking about the new duct I added on top. I was going to have an electrical box there, but had to move it. I need (want) to bring a 6" hose straight down from above.
    The two 4" hoses will attach to the sides of the spindles, on quick release (hopefully) shoes.
    Thanks though, for making me look up concomitant.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  20. #40
    Member Khalid's Avatar
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    I am amazed how you put square on the Z??...

    http://free3dscans.blogspot.com/ http://my-woodcarving.blogspot.com/
    http://my-diysolarwind.blogspot.com/


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