MountainCrafts Router/Plasma Build Thread

[ger21]

When the spec sheet says "2 phase" that means it can be hooked up bi-polar, correct?

If it has 4 or 8 wires, then it's bipolar.

And yes, the main difference between the G201X and G203V is the protection. And yes, the G203V is bulletproof.

If you wire a G201 wrong, or a motor wire comes loose, it'll die an instant death. It's up to you to decide is the extra $35 is worth it.

[CarveOne]

I need to know how far the motor shaft on the 640 oz stepper he sells protrudes past the bottom of the Z axis mounting plate.... I'm also needing to know how much of a gap should be between the end of the motor shaft and the Z screw (inside the helical coupling).. This information is necessary for me to know how long to cut the 4" flat bar...

If I had the motor, it would be a no brainer... but I thought it would be nice to work on that stuff while waiting to get the moola together, so that it's out of the way and the work doesn't all stack up at once...

It's not a huge deal...

The other thing I'd like to know, is the difference between the MeanWell switching power supply he said he could supply me (not listed yet on their website,but I'm pretty sure he's talking about the SE-100-48) and the Torroidial Power Supplies from Keling... Is one better than the other? More reliable? Is the main difference just the enclosure and fan on the meanwell?

The meanwell is considerably more expensive, but may be worth it... I need some 'sales' help here...

There is zero info on his website regarding the motors other than the voltage, current, and in oz rating.. torque curves, drawings/dimensions and all that are non-existent...

I like the idea of his stuff being plug and play, but I'd really like some more info on it all... It's pretty vague... and the money for this stuff adds up.... I don't mind paying the slight markup for all this stuff that he charges, as I think it's all quite reasonable, but a little hand holding is expected in return...

Also, one thing I haven't asked him yet, but I need to know, is the BOB... what do I need? What is recommended with his system?...

I will be using the super-PID controller for the router listed elsewhere here.. I will be needing zeroing/homing switches, E stops, tach input, etc... there may be other inputs I am not yet aware of that I need.. AFAIK, the BOB is the interface for all of this stuff, and I need to select one that has all the ins/outs required...

Finally, the difference between the Gecko 201x and 203V? I think it is just 'protection'.. Is the extra 35 bucks worth it? are the bulletproof claims exaggerations? Are there other differences than the protection? Is this something I should not worry about and just buy the cheaper 201x drivers?

I don't have the 640 oz motors either, so can't help with that one.

I have the Meanwell 48vdc 12.5 amp regulated PSU that he sells with the G540 kits. It is a more complicated design with many more parts in it. The 48vdc is regulated to within 5% or so. They appear to be very well made but I have only test run the G540 kit so far. I have the Keling 72vdc 20 amp linear toroidal PSU also. The main output is not regulated, but some of the Keling models also have a 5vdc and/or 12vdc regulated output at around one amp output. Stepper motors run fine on unregulated PSUs. The voltage goes down in a predictable manner as the current draw goes up. I use the Meanwell PSU on the G540 and the Keling PSU on the four G203V drives and Keling 495 oz motors on my 12' machine. The Keling PSU will need to have a fan(s) in the cabinet that you mount it in. The Meanwell has one in it, but you still need a fan to cool the Gecko drives you use.

Yeah, it would help to have a dimensioned drawing for the motors from the maker of the motor.

If you are using a G540 the BOB is built in. The G201 and G203V will need a separate BOB. I use a CNC4PC C11G board with my G203Vs. It is a version specifically for the Gecko drives and has opto isolation on the parallel port pins. I have two of the S-PID boards and for the testing I did with them I didn't hook up all the fancy controls that the others are doing now. The C11G BOB should handle all of it though.

"Bullet proof" is a relative term used in electronics to mean that they have provided input/output protection circuits that should handle most of the normal situations without damage. Abnormal situations beyond their control can still damage them though. Lightning surges, fire, .50 BMG rounds, etc are not covered under any reasonable warranty.

I'm not so familiar with the newer G201x, but if Gecko has lowered the cost by removing some of the protections and current /voltage capacity I would pay the extra cost for the venerable old G203V again, IMHO. The G203V is a 7 amp capacity 80vdc drive. My motors are rated 3.5 amp, so I have lots of margin.

CarveOne

[Mountaincraft]

Who sells that CNC4PC C11G BOB?
and what does it cost?

[Mountaincraft]

Never mind, found it... $109.. lots of ins/outs

[Mountaincraft]

NEMA 34 Z Axis Motor Mount

Can anyone tell me which side faces up (towards motor), and which down (towards screw)?

The large recess (perhaps for a gear?) would lend be to think that side would face away from the motor.. yet that same side has larger recesses than the mounting bolt shaft on the same side (I presume this is for the 5/16" bolt allen head) lends me to think that side faces up..

[Mountaincraft]

I think the motor has a protruding shoulder at the shaft end, which would explain the recess...

Now all I need to know, is how much gap should there be between the motor shaft and the lead screw (inside the helical coupling)..

[CarveOne]

NEMA 34 Z Axis Motor Mount

Can anyone tell me which side faces up (towards motor), and which down (towards screw)?

The large recess (perhaps for a gear?) would lend be to think that side would face away from the motor.. yet that same side has larger recesses than the mounting bolt shaft on the same side (I presume this is for the 5/16" bolt allen head) lends me to think that side faces up..

My guess is that the motor mounts to the flat side of the plate and the recess on the other side allows a gear to mount closer to the motor bearing than it would be if the plate was flat on both sides. All of my motors are NEMA 23.

CarveOne

[CarveOne]

I think the motor has a protruding shoulder at the shaft end, which would explain the recess...

Now all I need to know, is how much gap should there be between the motor shaft and the lead screw (inside the helical coupling)..

The helical coupler shouldn't need much of a gap and it isn't critical as long as the motor shaft isn't rubbing against the lead screw it will be ok.

CarveOne

[Mountaincraft]

So I can assume 1/16" - 1/8" is a good gap?

[CarveOne]

So I can assume 1/16" - 1/8" is a good gap?

Yes, in my opinion. There won't be enough angular movement in the coupler to cause it to close the gap and butt against each other. The coupler can wind and unwind a very small amount with very high acceleration and directional reversals. Normal values for acceleration shouldn't cause any problems.

CarveOne

[CarveOne]

Upon rethinking that last post, I don't think the shafts should extend into the helical spring area. I've been using the DumpsterCNC Delrin couplers which only have maybe 1/4" of area that can bend with an angular misalignment in shafts. Helical couplers have a longer helix length.

CarveOne

[Mountaincraft]

This would be an area where Ahrens input would be helpful... especially where as my screw is not true and can wobble..

However, the Z axis screw is probably only about 20" between bearing supports, and for the most part will not be making large movements, as the majority of material I'll be working with will be an inch and a half thick or less.....

However, at some point down the road, I plan to add an indexer.. which is why I will have about an 11" Z travel range...

[brtech]

I need to know how far the motor shaft on the 640 oz stepper he sells protrudes past the bottom of the Z axis mounting plate.... I'm also needing to know how much of a gap should be between the end of the motor shaft and the Z screw (inside the helical coupling).. This information is necessary for me to know how long to cut the 4" flat bar...

If I had the motor, it would be a no brainer... but I thought it would be nice to work on that stuff while waiting to get the moola together, so that it's out of the way and the work doesn't all stack up at once...

It's not a huge deal...

Can't help with that, don't have those motors

The other thing I'd like to know, is the difference between the MeanWell switching power supply he said he could supply me (not listed yet on their website,but I'm pretty sure he's talking about the SE-100-48) and the Torroidial Power Supplies from Keling... Is one better than the other? More reliable? Is the main difference just the enclosure and fan on the meanwell?

The Meanwell is a regulated power supply, has overvoltage protection, and a whole bunch of other stuff. The toroidal has none of them, but is much simpler. Lots of folks get by with unregulated supplies. I like regulated myself.

The meanwell is considerably more expensive, but may be worth it... I need some 'sales' help here...

There is zero info on his website regarding the motors other than the voltage, current, and in oz rating.. torque curves, drawings/dimensions and all that are non-existent...

I like the idea of his stuff being plug and play, but I'd really like some more info on it all... It's pretty vague... and the money for this stuff adds up.... I don't mind paying the slight markup for all this stuff that he charges, as I think it's all quite reasonable, but a little hand holding is expected in return...

Also, one thing I haven't asked him yet, but I need to know, is the BOB... what do I need? What is recommended with his system?...

Breakout Boards

Take your pick. Depends on how many motors, and what other inputs and outputs you need

I will be using the super-PID controller for the router listed elsewhere here.. I will be needing zeroing/homing switches, E stops, tach input, etc... there may be other inputs I am not yet aware of that I need.. AFAIK, the BOB is the interface for all of this stuff, and I need to select one that has all the ins/outs required...

Yup, that's how you choose.

Note that with Mach (you are using Mach, right?) you don't get a lot of advantage in separating out the home switches and limit switches. On a 3 axis system, one input is actually enough. On a 4 axis system (dual Y drives), you want a separate home input for the "A" axis. You need E-Stop. Tach goes to the Super PID, right?. You may want relay control for spindle.

Finally, the difference between the Gecko 201x and 203V? I think it is just 'protection'.. Is the extra 35 bucks worth it? are the bulletproof claims exaggerations? Are there other differences than the protection? Is this something I should not worry about and just buy the cheaper 201x drivers?

Gecko's are pretty bulletproof. You CAN blow them up, but it's pretty hard to do it. You are probably okay with the 201.

You might consider just getting the G540. It's 4 drivers and a BoB in one package. Very high quality, very nice device.

[Mountaincraft]

You might consider just getting the G540. It's 4 drivers and a BoB in one package. Very high quality, very nice device.

Won't handle the current, otherwise I'd be all over it at less than half the price...

[Mountaincraft]

On the C11G card info (at CNC4PC), it says the card works with Mach2.. This card works with Mach3 also, right?

Also, I'm using 4 axis control (two on X axis), this BOB will handle that right?

If I want to add an indexer later, will this card handle the fifth axis? Or will I have to get a different card? If so, can a basic no frill card be 'added' to the setup, or will I need to replace the entire card with a different one?

Thanks, getting ready to order, and I want to make sure I have something that will not only do what I need, but allow a little flexibility for the future...

[CarveOne]

On the C11G card info (at CNC4PC), it says the card works with Mach2.. This card works with Mach3 also, right?

Also, I'm using 4 axis control (two on X axis), this BOB will handle that right?

If I want to add an indexer later, will this card handle the fifth axis? Or will I have to get a different card? If so, can a basic no frill card be 'added' to the setup, or will I need to replace the entire card with a different one?

Thanks, getting ready to order, and I want to make sure I have something that will not only do what I need, but allow a little flexibility for the future...

Yes, it works with Mach3, and with EMC2. I don't think it really cares which software drives the board as long as the I/O parameters are set right. I use this board with Gecko G203V, Mach3, on a slaved X axis. I think it handles just four motors and you would need a second C11G and second parallel port card to get more step and direction lines for motors 5 and 6.

CarveOne

[Mountaincraft]

Should I be planning to get a dedicated parallel port card for the PC, or is the one that is built in on the motherboard safe to use?

Thanks,
Mark

[Mountaincraft]

Ordered the rack gears from moore gear this afternoon... Giving Ahren some more money this weekend... I think.. awaiting e-mail response first (so that I know how to spend it) ...

[Mountaincraft]

Which is better, the CNC4PC C11G, or the PMDX 132?

The PMDX 132 is $183 but when the geckos are purchased with it, the geckos are only $139... If I buy direct from Gecko, I have to pay state sales tax of $50 for the 4 drives...

The PMDX seems to have similar features, but also allows the gecko drives to plug in and mount directly underneath the BOB...

Although the PMDX is a more expensive board, with the sales tax savings, and the gecko 203v discount, that PMDX combo actually comes in a few dollars cheaper than buying the drives directly from gecko and the C11G board directly from CNC4PC..

But I have no idea as to which is considered better quality, better performing, etc... nor which is more feature packed...

There is also the PMDX 134.. which seems to be missing the charge pump (which as far as I can tell is an auto shut off safety device) for only $55... which would allow me to have the drivers and BOB delivered to my house for less than I could buy just the drivers from gecko... But I don't know if this BOB is inadequate or ill advised for my needs.. even for the short term...

Could use some veteran advice here...

[CarveOne]

I don't have any opinion or experience with the PMDX boards. They end up being similar to the G540 in respect to packaging the drives and BOB functions in one package. Hopefully, someone will be able to help you with that soon.

CarveOne