Newbie CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424 - Page 2


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Thread: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

  1. #13
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    I see a lot of folks support the cheaper spinlds ($400) all in vs their $1,700 kit. Where does that jump make sense for me?
    If you have $1700 and don't want to spend any time doing it all yourself. Are you capable of wiring it into their control box?

    You do get a little bit better spindle with a real warranty, but you can buy a spare chinese VFD and 2 spare spindles for under $1000.

    Some people don't mind building their machines, other just want to plug it in and use it.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
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    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
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    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  2. #14
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    Or for that size machine a router motor would work just fine. Cost about $130 and a mount $75 or so. I used a Hitachi on mine, very low noise level. The control box already is set up for a router motor with plug ins underneath. But you only get two collet sizes, 1/4 and 1/2 inch. Speed control on the top of the router motor. No messing with water cooled a pain, and setting up the VFD. Most of my smaller work is done with 1/4 inch tooling anyway.

    PS Yes I now have a air cooled spindle on mine with a VFD but it requires 220/240 volts for the VFD.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router


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    Member ddurbs21's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    Is there such thing as a VFD with 110V input that will run one of the Chinese 2.2kw water-cooled spindles?



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    Member mithiral67's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    Hey. I have 220 in my garage. I could go their kit for ease, only thing holding me off of CNCRPs kit is that it’s air cooled. I was leaning towards water to cut noise and to avoid blowing around chips. I am used to watercooling PCs, pretty sure I can deal with it here.

    Going china spindle kit still make sense or am I prioritizing things wrong?



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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    110/120 volts not a good choice at all for a 3 phase spindle, some VFD's will take 120 volts and convert to 240 v 3 phase and for a really small Hp spindle might be ok. I had one and it was fine, but maybe 3/4 Hp. Your much better off with 220/240 volt single phase or 3 phase if you have it available.

    My air cooled spindle does not blow dust around. You will need a dust collection system anyway. Water cooled is a pain. I had one and my laser is water cooled also. Unless you run a sealed system with a refrigerated chiller like my laser, you will need to deal with algae.

    Retired Master Electrician, HVAC/R Commercial. FLA Saturn 2 4x4 CNC Router


  6. #18
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    Quote Originally Posted by ddurbs21 View Post
    Is there such thing as a VFD with 110V input that will run one of the Chinese 2.2kw water-cooled spindles?
    The Chinese make them, but they should be avoided, as they don't usually work very well.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  7. #19
    Member mithiral67's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    Quote Originally Posted by wmgeorge View Post
    110/120 volts not a good choice at all for a 3 phase spindle, some VFD's will take 120 volts and convert to 240 v 3 phase and for a really small Hp spindle might be ok. I had one and it was fine, but maybe 3/4 Hp. Your much better off with 220/240 volt single phase or 3 phase if you have it available.

    My air cooled spindle does not blow dust around. You will need a dust collection system anyway. Water cooled is a pain. I had one and my laser is water cooled also. Unless you run a sealed system with a refrigerated chiller like my laser, you will need to deal with algae.
    I am confused on your comments about volts. I have 220 in my garage, so I will get a 220 vfd and spindle. I will have to research if I want single or 3 phase vfd, but its pretty plug and play power wise as long as I buy the right 220v combo, no?

    With wood, yes, will use a dust collection system. On aluminum, I will be blasting it with a coolant anyways, so your right, the air movement created by the spindle shouldn't be an issue.

    On watercooling, I have a 1,350 watt radiator with fans and pumps laying around designed to keep water temps below 40C. This works flawlessly with my PC when its dumping about 1,000 watts into the system (albeit I have 3,500 watts of cooling in the system, because overkill . The fluid has anti corrosion and anti algae additives by design as growth and metal mixing is a problem here, and years of use doesnt cause growth.

    I dont know how much heat these spindles will put into the system, I would think I easily adjust my cooling set up to handle what ever heat it creates. My PC has $3,700 worth of watercooling parts alone. While they are designed to cool and look awesome, I can do a lot of cooling on the cheap when I dont care how they look.

    Up to what temperature can these spindles operate at? PC world is tough as CPUs can jump 60c+ above the water temp in seconds as you are dumping 350watts through a chip the size of a stamp. So water temps have to be kept below 40C ideally as most CPUs throttle at 105c. Where as my GPUs with similar water temps and similar watts running through them only go up to 55C or 15 to 20C above the water temps. This is because they usually have larger dies (2-4 times bigger than cpus). I am assuming 2,200 watts over the larger spindle will allow for the water temp and the safe operating temps to be closure than the CPU world. As the large the delta between the air and water is, the more efficient the system is. So hoping to get more bang for the buck with my parts than on a PC.



  8. #20
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    I could go their kit for ease, only thing holding me off of CNCRPs kit is that it’s air cooled. I was leaning towards water to cut noise and to avoid blowing around chips. I am used to watercooling PCs, pretty sure I can deal with it here.

    Going china spindle kit still make sense or am I prioritizing things wrong?
    Chinese air cooled spindles are very quiet, and don't blow a lot of air.
    I've seen the argument about the spindle blowing chips around a LOT over the years. My opinion is that you should have a dust collector many times more powerful than the spindle cooling fan, which makes this point invalid. Without a decent dust collector, you'll have a room full of chips, and dust everywhere. A lot more than you'd think.

    And with air cooled, you don't have to deal with any water cooling hassles.

    I'd never pay $1700 for their spindle when I can get this for $300. But then I design and build my own machines.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/251263506939

    (I own this VFD and two of these spindles)

    The CNCRP spindle is probably louder than the round chinese spindles, as the square ones have different fans and better cooling. But a haven't heard anyone say they weren't happy with their cheap, round, chinese spindles.
    I would not recommend a normal router. The bearings just won't last long.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  9. #21
    Member mithiral67's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Chinese air cooled spindles are very quiet, and don't blow a lot of air.
    I've seen the argument about the spindle blowing chips around a LOT over the years. My opinion is that you should have a dust collector many times more powerful than the spindle cooling fan, which makes this point invalid. Without a decent dust collector, you'll have a room full of chips, and dust everywhere. A lot more than you'd think.

    And with air cooled, you don't have to deal with any water cooling hassles.

    I'd never pay $1700 for their spindle when I can get this for $300. But then I design and build my own machines.
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/251263506939

    (I own this VFD and two of these spindles)

    The CNCRP spindle is probably louder than the round chinese spindles, as the square ones have different fans and better cooling. But a haven't heard anyone say they weren't happy with their cheap, round, chinese spindles.
    I would not recommend a normal router. The bearings just won't last long.
    Hmmmm, so much good advice from you, really might convince me to go air instead of water. I have only found a couple youtube videos comparing these, and the water ones did sound a lot quieter (albeit I dont know if they were comparing apples to apples of spindles).

    Maybe I ditch the water cooling idea, and simply build an enclosure for sound suppression for the spindle and the milling.



  10. #22
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    While I haven't actually cut anything with my air cooled spindles, I've run them quite a bit on my bench. At 8000 rpm, the cooling fan in the VFD is louder. They aren't nearly silent like a water cooled, but you'll find the cutting noise to be much louder.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  11. #23
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    While I haven't actually cut anything with my air cooled spindles, I've run them quite a bit on my bench. At 8000 rpm, the cooling fan in the VFD is louder. They aren't nearly silent like a water cooled, but you'll find the cutting noise to be much louder.
    Thats the other thing I never see in the videos. Comparisons when they are actually cutting. Real life tests vs comparisons for the camera.

    PS, you're getting close to 33,333 posts, cool photo to take, imo. Thats a lot of posts.



  12. #24
    Community Moderator ger21's Avatar
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    Default Re: CNCRP Benchtop Pro or Standard 2424

    If you are using a 1/4" tool or larger, cutting noise will usually be louder than the spindle. The exception would be with very light passes, at very high rpm, where the spindle is at it's loudest.

    For example, my machine is in my attached garage, and my family room on the other side of the wall. When in the house watching TV with the machine running, I only hear it when it's actually cutting.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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