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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    I was planning to get the leg kit just to keep the machine frame from warping with temperature/humidity change. And then add a shelf on the bottom with storage for 5x5 plywood and a stack of tools I can't seem to find a good place for. Hoping that gives enough weight to keep this machine still. I agree this is not a 3,000 pound camaster. I wish I could justify $30,000 to get one but at my level I can't. I haven't paid for anything yet so I want to ask one last time before I send the money what I asked in the beginning. Would this machine be heavy enough to run 3/4 plywood in a cabinet shop? Im looking to start at 5-10 sheets a week and get to 20 sheets a week, at that point going for a larger machine would be fine. I would rather hold off all together than spend $14000 on a machine that I would be pushing to hard and start failing. Im used to seeing the larger machines run at the woodworking shows like Onsrud and Northwood so I know there is a big difference the higher the price and I know this wont compete with them, but I would like to be able to handle my current needs and allow me some production headroom to grow my business a little bit.



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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    Then read my posts again with the understanding that my main issue with the machine is that it doesn’t have an ATC. I mainly cut 3/4” Baltic Birch plywood with a 1/4” compression bit at 250-300 ipm in 2 passes for the 3/4” plywood. If I wanted to go shallower I think I could easily push the machine to 600 ipm. I could also potentially push it to 4/500 ipm with the 2 passes I do but don’t feel the need to push my machine because I simply can’t keep it busy with my business right now and probably won’t for several years. But as it is the machine works great and is making me money. I don’t have any regrets in purchasing but because of the ATC, I wish I had bought the Camaster. Based on what you’re discussing, I think the machine would work great for you. Not sure which machine of similar cost at that size would do any better unless you get lucky and find a used machine but then good luck if you have any issues. CNCRP stand behind their machine and are very helpful before and after the sale.

    David Gage
    Deep Sea Sound


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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    Quote Originally Posted by dgage View Post
    Then read my posts again with the understanding that my main issue with the machine is that it doesn’t have an ATC. I mainly cut 3/4” Baltic Birch plywood with a 1/4” compression bit at 250-300 ipm in 2 passes for the 3/4” plywood. If I wanted to go shallower I think I could easily push the machine to 600 ipm. I could also potentially push it to 4/500 ipm with the 2 passes I do but don’t feel the need to push my machine because I simply can’t keep it busy with my business right now and probably won’t for several years. But as it is the machine works great and is making me money. I don’t have any regrets in purchasing but because of the ATC, I wish I had bought the Camaster. Based on what you’re discussing, I think the machine would work great for you. Not sure which machine of similar cost at that size would do any better unless you get lucky and find a used machine but then good luck if you have any issues. CNCRP stand behind their machine and are very helpful before and after the sale.
    Thank you dgage. I'm planning to purchase this thing Tuesday and that last little doubt kept popping up in my head, hence I wanted to see if any more opinions were lurking about. I believe that machine will be fine and based on your usage production will be enough for me. Im planning to do the cutting and dados on the router, then line bore on my 23 spindle machine which is a lot faster and less wear and tear on the router's spindle. So there shouldn't be any bit changes needed. So far my dealings with CNCRP help has been phenomenal, so I have no doubts that they will stand behind it and help me get going. Im going to buy a couple of the bits you use and give your settings a shot. Any particular brand or bit you like using? I like the Whiteside stuff in my manual routers.



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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    Whiteside bits are some of my favorites as well though have also used Freud, Amana, and CMT bits. I have definitely used the Whiteside 2100 series bits with the CNC and they worked well. Lately I’ve been buying these from US Router Tools.
    1/4" 2+2 Compression Up/Down Spiral - 3/16" Upcut for Mortise Cuts | Router Bits | UsRouterTools.com

    David Gage
    Deep Sea Sound


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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    Those look really good, cheaper than the whitesides. How many sheets you getting on a bit? I was going to order the variety pack from CNCRP to try some odd stuff, but may just buy a pack of these and a couple odd bits instead



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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    I have noticed the #1 complaint on a machine like this is the lack of an atc. What about adding another spindle to it and have an extra bit ready to run? Would having 2 bits be enough to run most things? It adds about $3400 to the cost for the second z axis, extended gantry, and pnp spindle kit.



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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    Would having 2 bits be enough to run most things?
    That depends on how you build your cabinets.


    Does CNC Router Parts actually offer the dual spindle setup, and the required software to use it?


    If you are going to spend $3500 for a second spindle, you might as well get an ATC.
    It won't cost any more than the two spindles, and would be much more productive.

    https://www.cncdepot.net/product-pag...4-000rpm-iso30

    GMT Air Cooled ATC Spindle 3.7 kW 220V ISO30 | Automatic Tool Change Spindles

    https://www.cncpd.com/product/pds-xl...le-motor-220v/

    https://www.cncroutershop.com/us_en/...r-spindle.html

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    That depends on how you build your cabinets.


    Does CNC Router Parts actually offer the dual spindle setup, and the required software to use it?
    When I was first looking I thought about using a 1/2" downcut for the rabbits and dados. When cutting out the parts with a 1/4-3/8" compression bit and just having one bit change per sheet. Line boring would then be done on another machine using the dados as reference where to drill. After reading some more I could maybe do it all with just the compression? Then I would have no bit changes.

    CNCRP does sell the second z axis as an option and when you add another pno spindle package it comes to about $3400. Im not sure on how to control it. I was thinking it would work like choosing a different bit for an operation in a cam program. They did tell me it would work if I ran one file for one spindle then another for the other spindle, not at the same time though. Ive never done it but based on sone videos I figure a bit change and re zero is 5-10 minutes. I'm still on the fence it its worth it at my level.

    I looked at those atc spindles you listed, and I would go that route if I knew more. I'm new to this and thought something that was pre configured would be the best to start with.



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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    I have the extended gantry on mine to give me flexibility in the future. I think I would be more likely to add something like a laser on vs. another router.



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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    How deep are your dados and rabbets?

    If you use a 3/8" mortise compression, you can do ±5/16-3/8" deep rabbets and dados, and cut your parts with only one tool.
    I'd do another tool change and drill all the holes, it will save you a ton of time vs drilling later.

    I'm building a dual spindle/Z axis machine. With a custom toolchange macro, I'll be able to use both spindles in one file, but it depends on how the system is setup and wired.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2017 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2017.html[/URL]

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    [URL]http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html[/URL]

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    [URL]http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html[/URL]

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by pugsly View Post
    I have the extended gantry on mine to give me flexibility in the future. I think I would be more likely to add something like a laser on vs. another router.
    I thought about doing that for future expansion. I guess you could even slide the gantry to one side and mount things vertically to the side of the machine and still machine them.



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    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    How deep are your dados and rabbets?

    If you use a 3/8" mortise compression, you can do ±5/16-3/8" deep rabbets and dados, and cut your parts with only one tool.
    I'd do another tool change and drill all the holes, it will save you a ton of time vs drilling later.

    I'm building a dual spindle/Z axis machine. With a custom toolchange macro, I'll be able to use both spindles in one file, but it depends on how the system is setup and wired.

    I run them 1/4" deep so I can dado both sides of something and still leave it as a solid piece. The reason I was thinking to line bore on another machine is I can do it 23 holes at a time on that machine instead of 1 at a time. Does the the plunge down wear the spindle bearings out?



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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    Quote Originally Posted by dgage View Post
    Whiteside bits are some of my favorites as well though have also used Freud, Amana, and CMT bits. I have definitely used the Whiteside 2100 series bits with the CNC and they worked well. Lately I’ve been buying these from US Router Tools.
    1/4" 2+2 Compression Up/Down Spiral - 3/16" Upcut for Mortise Cuts | Router Bits | UsRouterTools.com
    Would those bits you recommended be able to cut 1/4" deep without tearing out the face? Im wanting to cut 1/4" dados with the same bit I cut out the cabinets with. That may save me a bit change or another spindle if they can.



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    Default Re: Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

    Quote Originally Posted by Aerojunkie View Post
    Would those bits you recommended be able to cut 1/4" deep without tearing out the face? Im wanting to cut 1/4" dados with the same bit I cut out the cabinets with. That may save me a bit change or another spindle if they can.
    No, the crossover is further towards the middle so you'd actually be using the upcut part with a 1/4" dado. If surface finish is a concern, I'd just use a down cutting bit (like the Whiteside 2100D) for everything as I've done in the past. You also may need to practice with doing a first skimming pass to shear the top fibers, maybe .01" deep or so.

    David Gage
    Deep Sea Sound


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Cabinet makers....looking to order a 5x10 machine

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