New CNC Router Parts 48x96 Router build coming soon

[bernienufc]

Peter P

its a great video to help you with this

[GigaWatt]

Gigawatt - thank you that looks like it would work great. How thick are your spoil boards to start with? How deep are your recessed holes? I would assume about 1/2 way through the spoil board to allow more resurfacing. What do you do hold down small pieces? Tabs or d.s. tape?

I have 3/4" mdf bolted to the frame. The t-tracks are bolted to this layer on 6" centers. The actual spoilboard is the 3/4" mdf inserts that fit between and overlap the tracks.

For small parts I use a small vacuum table with used hvac vac pump.


This part of my post may need reposted in a different place on this forum but, I'm still considering building a vacuum table (not sure if I will build a whole table or just a smaller piece (2x4 or so) to mount when I need it, but if I do a larger piece or the whole table I'd like to have valves to turn off sections (probably 2' x 4' or so), when they aren't in use, can anyone tell me if a large shop vac or a vacuum for a commercial car wash vacuum would be enough for a 4x8 lr would I need multiple vacuums?

Most shop vacs use suction airflow to cool the motor. If you use one on a vacuum table you'll likely burn up the motor.

[dgage]

Gigawatt - thank you that looks like it would work great. How thick are your spoil boards to start with? How deep are your recessed holes? I would assume about 1/2 way through the spoil board to allow more resurfacing. What do you do hold down small pieces? Tabs or d.s. tape?

Bernie - thank you that makes me full a lot more comfortable, but I'm going to let my newb, show. What is an RS458? Is that the controller / knob on the huan yang controller or is there another piece I'll need to purchase.

This part of my post may need reposted in a different place on this forum but, I'm still considering building a vacuum table (not sure if I will build a whole table or just a smaller piece (2x4 or so) to mount when I need it, but if I do a larger piece or the whole table I'd like to have valves to turn off sections (probably 2' x 4' or so), when they aren't in use, can anyone tell me if a large shop vac or a vacuum for a commercial car wash vacuum would be enough for a 4x8 lr would I need multiple vacuums?

Look up DIY Black Box Vacuum and you’ll get a lot of information. I bought my vacuum motors from the following place as have many others. I bought 3 of the 122178-18 motors for my 5x10 CNC.

https://www.centralvacuummotor.com/shopbot.htm

[Gary-Wiant]

Look up DIY Black Box Vacuum and you’ll get a lot of information. I bought my vacuum motors from the following place as have many others. I bought 3 of the 122178-18 motors for my 5x10 CNC.

https://www.centralvacuummotor.com/shopbot.htm

Stage- thank you I tried to search for the pumps you listed but nothing shows up.

[Gary-Wiant]

Dgage- I tried your link & the website couldn't find the pump.

A couple questions for guys with vacuum tables. I'm planning on a thin box base with ports across the front to open & close 3 32"x48" zones of the table, unless there is a reason to go 24"x48" zones

What are you using for the base? I'm concerned with the vacuum pulling through the MDF base. Will painting the bff base work or do I need hdpe?

What size of vacuum[s] do I need for 3 - 32" x 48" zones?

Has anyone came up with a combination top to use both vacuum & T-Slot (without having a removable vacum table! or is the not a good idea?

Has anyone used the harbor freight vacuum pumps?

I s÷ some vacuum pumps use 1/4" lines, can I use a pump with a 1/4" line one 32"x48" zones or do I need to find a vacuum with a larger size line?

Thanks in advance
Gary

[ger21]

A couple questions for guys with vacuum tables. I'm planning on a thin box base with ports across the front to open & close 3 32"x48" zones of the table, unless there is a reason to go 24"x48" zones

A smaller zone will generally have more holding power.

Will painting the mdf base work or do I need hdpe?

I'd seal the MDF with epoxy, at least 2-3 coats. Then it should be fine.

What size of vacuum[s] do I need for 3 - 32" x 48" zones?

It depends on a lot of things.
The smaller the parts, the more holding power you'll need, as vacuum holding force is related to part size.
Material also plays a role. If your holding down MDF, the vacuum sucks right through it, reducing the holding force.
Cutting forces also come into play. With larger tools, and higher feedrates, much more holding force is required.

Has anyone used the harbor freight vacuum pumps?

If you are talking about a pump like this, it's not a good choice.
https://www.harborfreight.com/3-cfm-...ump-61176.html

They constantly discharge an oil mist into the air.


There are basically two different types of vacuum systems, with variations on each.

The first type is usually used on large tables, and has the vacuum pull through an MDF spoilboard. You just place your parts or sheets on the spoilboard, and the vacuum holds them down.
These types of systems require a lot of CFM, as vacuum is constantly being pulled through the MDF in areas outside your part, losing a lot of holding force.

The vacuums used in these systems are typically connected with 2-3" hoses or pipes, to accommodate the lager volumes of air.
At the low end of the price spectrum, are the vacuum cleaner motors like those from central vacuum.LH6765-OD-240
For a 4x8 table, you'd want 3 or 4 of them. Be aware that with these vacuum tables, more vacuum is always better. No matter how much you have, you'll always wish you had more.
These motors are loud, and generate a lot of heat.

The next step up from these is a regenerative blower, which will cost quite a bit more, but will be quieter, and have more vacuum.

And the top of the line is a high flow rotary vane pump. Becker is the most common brand. Again, the bigger, the better. A 10HP model is a good match for a 4x8 table. Cost is $8000-$10,000.


The second type of system uses vacuum pods, or individually sealed zones connected or fixtures. These work well for holding individual, smaller sized parts.
These systems require high vacuum (~20+"Hg), but because they are sealed, low CFM.
These pumps are connected directly to the pod or fixture with 1/4"-1/2" lines. Large lines are not required, as there's very little air flow.
These systems use very different pumps. Here are a few that work with this type of system.
https://www.veneersupplies.com/searc...ry=vacuum+pump

A top of the line is this range would also be a Becker, like this:
http://bettervacuumcups.com/becker-vacuum-pump-vt4-8/

[Gary-Wiant]

Gerry - What size zones should I make? I was considering 2'x4' as small zone but should I make them 18"x24"?

What type of epoxy? Do you mean Epoxy primer or something different?

I'm thinking more like the second type with holes to direct the suction. Something like the one cnc nuts has the 2 part vacuum table video of on youtube.

Do I need a separate motor for each zone?if so that could get really expensive if I'm using 18"x24" zones.

Thank you
Gary

[ger21]

I really can't tell you what size you should make them. It depends on a lot of things, like the size of your workpieces, what type of work, what pump(s) you'll be using.

I'd use a thin laminating epoxy, like West System. I use US Composites.

I can't watch Peter's video right now, as I'm camping and don't have a good internet connection.
Normally, I'd say having a lot of holes is not the best way to do it, and doesn't work well. But I'll have to watch the videos tomorrow.

[Gary-Wiant]

Gerry - thanks right now it seems I'll be routing pvc's, real wood & cutting sign shapes out of ACP panelsmore than anything else, more than MDF but you never know once I get a real router what I'll get into. I was looking for a complete table able to work on the majority of jobs.

Enjoy your camping trip

[dgage]

Here is a picture of my 5’x10’ CNC with vacuum table. I cut the vacuum into 5 zones, which are specifically designed so I can switch between 5x5, 5x10, or 4x8 sheets of plywood. You would need to figure out what sort of work you do to size your zones. Alternatively, instead of fixed zones, you could also just use scrap pieces of wood to cover unused sections of the table while you’re cutting. Or you could use alternative forms of hold down such as vacuum pucks, t-track, or screws. They also make a composite nail gun that some use for hold down (RAPTOR? Nails and Staples | Polymer Composite Plastic Nails, Plastic Staples & Plastic Fasteners).

[Gary-Wiant]

Dgage that looks awesome I was going to set mine up in 2x4 sections, similar to yours with ball valves to turn on & off sections. What pumps do you use? I've been trying to figure out how to design a spoil board that uses both vacuum and t-slot but I haven't figured that out yet.

Thank you
Gary

I've seen the nylon bead nails but haven't tried them yet. Can you use a standard bead nail guns or do you need to purchase their specific nail gun?

[dgage]

I bought 3 of the 122178-18 motors from https://www.centralvacuummotor.com/shopbot.htm. This is a more powerful vacuum motor than most used for their black box diy vacuums plus it has thermal overload protection.

I bought some of the composite nails to test but my nail guns destroyed many of them. If I were going down that path, I’d buy the special Raptor nail gun.

[Gary-Wiant]

How are you using 3 motors to control 5 zones? Do you have any issues with holding power on the 4'x4' zones when cutting either largeheavy cuts or small intricate cuts?

Thanks

[dgage]

The 3 motors are attached to a box under the table on the right side before the zone controls. Then I have a 2" pipe going from the vacuum motor box to the left side of the zone controls with a 1.5" tee coming off the 2" pipe for each of the zone controls. We primarily use 5x5 3/4" Baltic Birch plywood and we cut 2 sheets at a time. We usually cut all the way through and I've had no problem with suction. Don't have much experience with small, intricate cuts using the vacuum table.

[Gary-Wiant]

Dgage - so all 3 pumps run into one box & the 5 zones draw out of the box? Does the last zone in line have the same amount of vacuum as the first zone? Can you email photos of the plumbing to vgu7446@gmail.com?

[dgage]

Here is a picture of the plumbing under the table. I originally had the box next to the plumbing at the end of the machine but I want drawers on the long side now so I changed the orientation of the box and brought one plumbing pipe out. And yes, I did notice that zone 4 (front right with longer run than zone 5) was slightly down on suction when I was just comparing suction from the table drains before gluing on the spoilboard but in practice I have not noticed any issues. I may connect zone 5 (end of pipe) back to the plumbing before zone 1 to average it out but so far I haven’t noticed it to be an issue. Regarding the 3 vacuums, I don’t have any fancy check valves to be able to turn 2 on with the third as needed; all three vacuums are always running if the vacuum table is on.

I’m also including a before and after picture of some inexpensive (cheap) plywood that I used to create some mobile shop carts. The before picture shows you can put a stack of 4 credit/debit cards under the long side of the 4x8 plywood after it was laid on the table. The after picture shows the vacuum hold down in operation though I did have to push that side down for it to grab hold. After pushing that side down, I had no issues cutting the mobile cart but those are large pieces so I would have been surprised if there had been issues. Also, since it was a 4x8 piece of plywood, only zones 1 and 2 were open as 3-5 are only needed when running a pair of 5x5 Baltic Birch plywood sheets.

[Gary-Wiant]

Thank you this helps a lot with the plumbing. Except I'm looking at this on my phone but I think I'm missing the box is it above the pumps?

[dgage]

The box is black as I painted it with a durable coating to make extra sure it was air tight. I attached a mockup of the vacuum box that the vacuum motors are attached to.

If I were to do this over I'd probably build one box per vacuum and daisy chain them with PVC check valves (and rubber couplings) so I could turn on each vacuum individually as needed based on what I'm cutting. I'd also add a 4th vacuum motor just in case I needed it. The issue with that setup is that the first vacuum would always need to be run but the fourth would rarely be run so periodically I'd swap the motors around to even out usage. Might even put an hour meter for motors on each vacuum motor to help with evening out usage.

The other thing I'd do is make sure the zones were connected to a box or had another pipe connecting zone 5 back to zone 1 to ensure flow was even across all zones. Right now with a single pipe going from the vacuum motors to each zone, zone 1 definitely has more pull than zone 4/5, at least with no load.

[Gary-Wiant]

Couldn't you run all 3 motors into the one box with check valves and alternate which motor(2) you turn on? Also your second thought is what I was thinking. From the box run either 1.5" or 2" directly to the zone (with a ball valve first of course) that way theoretically all zones should have the same vacuum.

Now I just need to decide if I'm getting the 5x10 table, what size zones I should run I like the way you have your table set up & have the 4x4 zones then the 1x4 across the top then the 2x4 ar the end, but I'm wondering if using different size pvc would help even out the vacuum or if using an additional ball valve and partially closing that valve would even it out

[dgage]

Originally I was going to turn the box sideways at the end of the table and have 5 holes from the vacuum box, 1 for each zone, which would have resulted in even vacuum per zone. However, when I decided to put drawers in to organize better as opposed to letting things get unorganized, I changed my plans, which is what I have now. Works just fine but 2.0 projects are usually better than 1.0.

And yes, I could make multiple runs from each vacuum box, with check valves, into a main zone box or pipe, which would give me that flexibility and evenness.

Only other improvement I was thinking about was some motorized ball valves to be able to control the zones from the CNC depending on material size.