Need advice on Mori Seiki Model SV 50

[toranacar]

Hey guys, awesome forum, I don't have any formal training or experience with CNC's but I have learnt allot from You Tube vids, I’m sure I need to learn more.
I have an eye on one second hand CNC centre (CNC Machining Centre, Mori Seiki Model SV 50) in Australia, (As I live in Australia) its allot of money for me to buy and I don't want to make a mistake.
So I'm wondering do I need specific CAD and CAM software to run this machine? And would the CAD and CAM still be available for this machine as this machine is a few years old.
I should explain I would like to CAD design automotive components (preferably not structural as I don't have an engineering degree) but components such as fuel and oil pumps, oil pans, side mirrors and some interior, using billet and sheet aluminum etc. Convert that to CAM then feed the CAM machine language into the CNC. I believe that's how it works?
I guess I need general advice on this, im not even sure what else to ask I just don’t know enough.
The actual machine I have in mind does not have the cutting bits and the seller cannot tell me if it has the appropriate software and manuals to run it. Im guessing it runs off firmware?
This is the same type of machine on You Tube, to me it looks sweet but any advice would be great.
[nomedia="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qfqjIT-MLY"]YouTube - 2650 MORI SEIKI SV-50[/nomedia]

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[underthetire]

As long as the machine powers up and moves around, your ok. The SV50 does not have conversational programming on it, it's a straight Fanuc 18 MC control. Pretty much any CAM should work, just might have to modify the post for the Mori high speed machining function. I will warn you however, the SV50, is no joke of a machine. They were the fastest full size vertical in there day, and still faster than most new machines even now. The SV500 and SV503 were almost the same machines, just with faster rapids still, and the 500 had an i series control, the SV503 had the Mapps control with conversational. Check to see if it's a "b" model, and also what tool taper it is. Get someone to check the spindle and axis for you. The machine is approaching it's 15th birthday, so it's no spring chicken. And make sure you have plenty of clean dry air and at least 100amps of 208 3phase power. That machine will need it.

[toranacar]

More info
CNC Machining Centre, Mori Seiki Model SV 50/40 Features: 20 Post Turret Tool Changer, MSC 518 Tri Axis XYZ Controller with Monitor, 6 T Slotted Table, Approx 1100mm x 600mm, Inbuilt Suds, 2 x Swarf Trays, Work Light, Operations Manual, Max Spindle Speed 10,000 RPM, Max Tool Dia 125mm, Island Transformer, (415 Volt Bus Bar Connection)

I also wonder if parts are available for this?
Thanks for your information on this machine, i guess my primary concern was if i buy this will i have a nightmare finding the apropriate CAM to even start to use it or will i have a $15000+ paper weight in my garage! I should have asked what the cost of the CAM and CAD would be for this machne? And is $15000 too much to pay for this CNC?

[underthetire]

here that machine would be 25K++ easy. I just saw one in pieces that sold at an auction just before Xmas for 30K. This "20 Post Turret Tool Changer " is not right. It's a high speed side mount ATC with I believe they were 24 tools. Think you could even get Lazy Cam to work with it, im sure even bobcad/cam would work. Just a plain Fanuc control. Parts are no problem here at all for those. Mori sold TONS of those. Not a "B" model means it's the short travel~31" in X, 16" in Y. That thing is still an integral spindle ( no belts, no couplings) 30HP machine. It will rapid to the part faster than your hand or head can stop it, so keep the rapid overrides down till your used to it. They were all plumbed and prepped for through the tool high pressure coolant, you would need to add a 300PSI or higher coolant pump and filter for that. Hope you have no neighbors, plenty of air, and LOTS of power to run that in a garage. Not really a silent machine because of the speeds.

[toranacar]

Ok, so the tool changer has probably been changed.
Im guessing being a 15yo machine the lead and ball screws may be worn a little a sloppy?
Could you tell me if these criticle components are sloppy, are they hard to replace or would a specialist need to do the job?

[underthetire]

Ok, so the tool changer has probably been changed.
Im guessing being a 15yo machine the lead and ball screws may be worn a little a sloppy?
Could you tell me if these criticle components are sloppy, are they hard to replace or would a specialist need to do the job?

No way the tool changer has been changed, probably just bad description. Ball screws may be a little sloppy, but not very common to need to replace those. Thrust bearings on the screws will fail first. Mori has a very specific way to change these bearings and screws, it could be done by a non service guy, but would take a while. If the screws are bad, figure 3,500 to 5K per screw. Bearing sets are about 1k per axis. (sv's use 5 bearings per screw). Noise is always a givaway to thrust bearings. Even backlash tests won't tell you the story unless you know Fanuc well enough to set the comps to 0, people will put huge comp numbers in to fool buyers. Like I said, pay a MORI service guy to go with you, if even for an hour, if you need screws and a spindle your up to 20K+ to fix it.

[toranacar]

No way the tool changer has been changed, probably just bad description. Ball screws may be a little sloppy, but not very common to need to replace those. Thrust bearings on the screws will fail first. Mori has a very specific way to change these bearings and screws, it could be done by a non service guy, but would take a while. If the screws are bad, figure 3,500 to 5K per screw. Bearing sets are about 1k per axis. (sv's use 5 bearings per screw). Noise is always a givaway to thrust bearings. Even backlash tests won't tell you the story unless you know Fanuc well enough to set the comps to 0, people will put huge comp numbers in to fool buyers. Like I said, pay a MORI service guy to go with you, if even for an hour, if you need screws and a spindle your up to 20K+ to fix it.

You have brought me back to reality with those figures, unfortunately the time has passed to view the machine as the auction specifies the date and time which was yesterday. May have to let this pass and prepare better next time and have a specialist check out the machine before i bid.
But thank you so much for educating me on this, i will have to check out the rest of the forum, looks so interesting

[toranacar]

Ok, so this machine auctioned way over my budget, $40000 lol. Not something for someone like me to learn on.
I had a quick look at the Syil mill. (Stupid question) will the Syil mill do all the things the Mori Seiki does? Only slower and not heavy duty without the tool changer and still use CAD/CAM?
Like I said before, I would like to make automotive custom parts; mirrors, oil pump etc maybe if I get good enough carve out a wheel centre. Would a Syil achieve this, only having to manually change tooling when needed?
Checking out some Syil videos right now.

[Gatter]

My tool clamping pressure is down to 1200lbs. I need to find a repair manual that shows the spindle and parts

[underthetire]

My tool clamping pressure is down to 1200lbs. I need to find a repair manual that shows the spindle and parts

Don't think I have a digital copy. SV 50/40 should be 1800 at min. usually swelled up O-rings #1 cause, second bellville springs. ( key bellville, Florida is about the cheapest). Remove front cover. Leave tool in spindle. Remove unclamp Cyl, DO NOT DICCONECT THE OIL LINES, remove through spindle coolant coupling. BE CAREFULL, they are Ceramic face and damage easy. You will need to remove a coolant catch ring and probably a dust cover. Eventually you will get down to the threaded on spindle sensor nut (lots of tiny grooves around it). That has several small set screws around the out side of it. loosen all of them, then double check you got them all. Place a bolt in the top of it and with a soft punch you need to tap it to unscrew it.(It can be a real B*tch). Once you get that off, you need to either make a pusher with all thread and a plate across the unclamp cyl studs, or bolt the unclamp cyl back on and use the maual tool eject to get the tool out. Either unscrew the all thread (safest way BTW), or CAREFULLY unbolt the tool unclamp Cyl. The draw bar will have plenty of upwards force on it at this point, since the sensor nut is off. Draw bar will slide the rest of the way out from here.
Average time for a pro that does these a lot, 1-3 hours. For the first time plan on 8 hours.

[Gatter]

Thanks for the info. I'll give it a try

[toranacar]

Hi guy's
I finally assembled most of the CNC, replaced rails and linear bearings, the machine is much quieter.
I believe i screwed up the X axis home. So, trying to back track what i have done, i think i must have jogged the ball screw past the soft limit (without the table installed) while cleaning out the bottom of the mill. I didn't remove the ball screw at all as i didn't want this kind of issue but unfortunately i think i jogged past the limit.
So the issue i now have is when "homing" the X axis it stops way too soon and doesn't even reach the limit switch.
Just wondering if anyone has an idea to rest this? It's a Fanuc OM controller.
Thanks Guys

[toranacar]

sorry guys wrong thread. Ignore that

[suazo26]

hola necesito parametros para una dura vertical 1035 eco alguien puede ayudarme?