New build help

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  1. #1
    Member Waynekofuco's Avatar
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    Default New build help

    Im just finishing the steel frame of a 3030cm fixed gantry router that will be used for milling AL and various plastics using a ISO20 high speed spindle. Its to replace a 6040 Chinese/AL based router. The frame is mostly built using 1/4" wall steel. Currently AL linear stages are being used, but these will be replaced w rails mounted on ground steel plate in the near future.

    My question is, Im using jack screws on the XY stages to tram them respectively. Once trammed the I plan on using steel epoxy fill the mating gaps. Ive heard of two methods.
    1, tram the stages, keep the jack screws fixed, remove the stages and slather epoxy on both faces, replace the stages to sandwich the epoxy.
    2,tram the stages, keep the stages in place and inject epoxy through a port.
    I would thin option 2 would be the best, but have no Idea. I also dont know if with either of these option if its ok to use release agent on both mating surfaces. Again I hope to replace the AL stages w steel plate stages.

    Thanks for any insights



  2. #2
    Member Waynekofuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    I wound up injecting jb cold weld using a 3ml syringe thu a 9/64" hole drilled in the center of the mating area. I also put a lot of plumbers putty around the bolts to prevent the jb weld migrating in through the bolt holes. I also used mold release on both surfaces. In all it worked pretty good. If I were to do it again I would have used a lot less plumber putty around the bolts as I would have prefered the jb weld would have gotten closer to the bolts.



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    Member peteeng's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    Well done Wayne- Peter



  4. #4
    Member Waynekofuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Well done Wayne- Peter
    Thanks Peter, I torq'd down the bolts this evening and the tram held true



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    Member peteeng's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    Hi Wayne - tell us more about the ISO20 spindle I'm interested in this for a small Mill... Peter



  6. #6
    Member Waynekofuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    I tried avoiding ISO20 as the tool holders aren't as numerous as the ISO30. I was looking at the S30 made in the US, but the lack of response from the manufacture, indeterminate lead time and turnkey cost I opted to go another way. Per the granite guy Fox,
    I followed his recommendation and went directly to Jainken as they appear to be the top tier for the Chinese offerings. I wound up with the 2.2KW as I wanted 80mm and be able to drive w my Hitachi WJ200 VFD. The part# is JGL-80/2.2R24 The transaction was pretty smooth w good response from Jainken even though I purchased during the Chinese New Year. Interestingly I believe the spindle was made to order. With assembly and shipping to the US was it only took 2 weeks for delivery. My point of contact name is Wafer and he's been pretty good about responding. I havnt mounted it yet (this week w any luck ) but the fit/finish and shipping container are the best Ive ever seen from China. Im impressed so far. The literature is pretty sparse and unspecific, but Wafer has been good answering my Q's that were pretty murky in the manual.

    In all my online research there seems to be confusion re the ATC air ports and the use of 'Air Return'. Even Fox seemed to be have his ATC plumbed poorly. Wafer sent me a schematic of the correct way to plumb the ATC system and it works perfectly. I was going to use multiple solenoids to control the ATC, but the option offered by Jainken is simple, works perfectly on the bench with no need to "clamping bleed off" to unbind the spindle. See attached

    Another thing I never understood or bothered to set on my other routers was the clamping window of these electro spindles. I just slid them up and down in the clamp as needed to accommodate fixturing and vices. The Jainken specs a clamping window so as not to compromise the bearings. I wish had know of this prior to my Z layout to optimize positioning. See attached

    With any luck Ill have this thing fired up this week to do some test cuts. I forgot that I needed new couplers. I love the Clearpaths, but why they chose 3/8" 9.525mm shafts I dont get... Needless to say waiting on couplers to arrive...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New build help-pneumatic-diagram-jgl-atc-spindles-jpg   New build help-clamping-range-jgl-80-2-2r24-1-a  


  7. #7
    Member ardenum's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    Jianken actually responded? They must be desperate, usually they don't respond. How did you contact them, through the website or alibaba?



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    Default Re: New build help

    Hey Wayne,

    Do you have some pictures of the spindle?

    My major gripe with these Chinese spindles is always the very poor electrical wiring. Thin wires, no shield, no safety ground wire...



  9. #9
    Member Waynekofuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    @Ardenum, They responded to my Alibaba order. It took about a week, but it was in the middle of Chinese NY. This is my first exp w Jainken so cant comment otherwise. Ive bought several $5k-10k machines from China for my business, mostly pick and place machines. In dealing w the Chinese I found them to be very helpful and responsive to a point, depending on where you are in a transaction. If you show intent to buy by asking item specific questions they will respond. Once you purchase they have always been responsive. That's just been my experience...

    @Jackjr see attached pics.

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New build help-20210419_085902-jpg   New build help-wayne-black-jpg   New build help-20210419_085828-jpg   New build help-20210419_083317-jpg  



  10. #10
    Member Waynekofuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    Interesting ATC performance, see the videos below. I plumbed the ATC in situ to make sure it worked before wiring it in to the control board. It works as outlined by Jainken with no spindle binding, so good enough. I then scoped the 'clamp' and 'release' sensors and they work as they should, so good enough. Just for giggles I though Id disconnect the 'Air Return' to see if the spindle would bind, it didnt... Spins just as freely with the return disconnected. I thought on it a bit and realized it must be that I just disconnected the line and it vented to atmosphere so I sealed it at the spindle port. I repeated the test and still no binding or spindle drag. Why? The only thing I can think is that the videos where I have seen spindle binding for a period after a tool change is their air pressure is too high? Did I just get a magical, zero drag spindle?

    Scoped with 'Air Return' plumbed properly

    Scoped with 'Air Return' sealed at spindle and solenoid

    Solenoid setup/trigger

    Spinning the spindle by hand




  11. #11
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    Default Re: New build help

    Thanks for the pics.

    My understanding is that the cylinder is spring-loaded and not a true double acting cylinder. Thus the "air return" is more like a safety to ensure the cylinder is fully retracted.



  12. #12
    Member Waynekofuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    @Jack, thanks, that makes sense. I got a better look at the wire loom, the VFD power connector is a foil shield w .75mm or 20guage. Ive read 18-16guage is min for 2.2kw, so not the best. Its just a pigtail that I have to splice for now into 16awg to get everything together. The PNP clamp and release leads are full length but super thin. I plan running those 24v to help w noise. The thermistor wire look like a typical thermistor wire, but I don't plan to use. The proof in the pudding will be when I get everything running and cutting.



  13. #13
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    Default Re: New build help

    If you care about best practice I would use a Weipu SF1611 connector for the spindle power, for proper shield continuation (assuming they actually used a proper EMI cable gland). The shield must be terminated at both ends to be effective.



  14. #14
    Member Waynekofuco's Avatar
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    Default Re: New build help

    Thanks. The gland at the spindle is metal but a pass thru type. The conductors, shield included, pass thru the gland and spindle top plate. I am unsure if the foil shield is terminated to the interior spindle body. Ill ohm it out tonight. I need a new DMM battery.



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