Arrow 500 power issues

[206B3]

Hey guys,
I bought an Arrow 500 and am having issues with "machine power required". I mainly bought this machine for spare parts for my other 500 which works great. I want to be able to test all the components before I take this one apart. The machine itself was lacking some TLC and I have had to fix computer issues and broken wires. In short, here is what happens. I turn on main power and all is good. Hit start button and computer boots up with everything passing/ok. Push start button again and my breaker in the service panel trips (same breaker my other machine uses with no issues). Once in a while it won't trip but the PSR5 spindle drive will show a fault light. I can home all axis and tool drum but since there is a fault in the drive it won't align the spindle. Thinking there may be a short in the spindle motor I disconnected the power leads to the motor. No change. I know I'm leaving out some details but I'm hoping someone will just throw out a possible cause. I can then check that area. It may be easier to answer a given question than to answer every question up front. I have the documentation and manuals for my other 500 so I can check any relays or wires. I do get a message during computer boot up that refers to "one system/driver failed to load, see event viewer" but there are no indications in the event viewer. I'm thinking it may be something not important such as a network card or printer etc. I also noticed when the PSR5 fault light is on, I can unhook the air and the fault light goes out. I then get the air pressure alarm. When I hook up the air the fault light comes back on. That's probably working as it should. I will try to get setup with motion link to the drive. Thanks

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• Spindle Issues Arrow 500 A2100

[206B3]

Here is more info.
A2100
My appologies. It is a VFS5 spindle drive not PSR5
On initial power up VFS5 has green lights, no faults. PSR4/5 has no light. Normal
230 volts coming into the machine from transformer

[maver1ck]

First, you said machine power trips breaker, now it doesn't? Or is this only intermittent? Are all 3 legs present and balanced?If it trips, you are drawing too much current so need to figure out why there is an excess load at power up. There are also other motors that could be getting power when the drives com on (i.e.chip auger, coolant pump, etc. Is there any chance you have a short from exposed wires?

2nd, yes PSR = power supply, VFS5 = spindle drive. Spindle drive will fault if spindle motion is commanded but doesn't occur, so without motor connected you should not get a fault until the alignment command, at which point it will fault from lack of motion. If operator door is open, there is a contactor that opens to prevent spindle motion (if switch is still functional and wired properly) so a short in spindle motor would't trip the breaker with door open....plus it really shouldn't be able to trip the breaker until a spinlde command is made.

Removing air from machine e-stops it so the PSR output should drop out as soon as you get the air pressure alarm (and undervolt lights on your X, Y and Z drives). When you turn the air back on and restart the machine, the DCBus becomes active, undervolt lights should disappear on servo drives and spindle drive should be "ready". I can't think of a reason the VFS5 fault light would turn off when you get a low air fault though. Is there any chance some wires were crossed and your air pressure switch is triggering a fault...I've seen this done where the person installing the machine tied the door interlock into the xformer overtemp signal so the machine would shut down whenever they opened the door.

Workstation event viewer is a windows function. From my experience usually due to network setup, incorrect display adapter, etc, and not directly related to machine function.

[206B3]

Hey Maver1ck,

Thanks for the reply. Yes it is intermittent. I would say 1out 4 times it will not trip the breaker on the second power up. I'm running a phase perfect and all power leads are within 5%. The coolant pump is not hooked up. Good point though. I'll check the pump leads. Maybe they are shorting. No other motors are present. It has the 8000rpm spindle with oiler and it blinks 'healthy'. I'll look over the air switch wiring. The door switch appears to be working properly. I have checked the different relays and they seem to also be working (CR8, CR24).

Yes I agree that something is drawing too many amps but on those times it doesn't trip, something is sending a message to the spindle drive and making it fault out. Can I rule out any of the computer components (watch dog timers? not really sure what they are or do) since they all seem to pass the boot process? Would I be correct in thinking the VFS5 is OK since it has all green lights on initial power up? I have wiggled and cleaned several connectors.

I'll keep poking around.

[206B3]

Could it be the PSR4/5. It was in sad shape so I did some repairs from a spare one that I had. Maybe it is drawing too many amps. I'm pretty sure that it talks to the VFS5. Correct me if I'm wrong. Doesn't explain the intermittent part though.

[machinehop5]

...How old is the Spindle Drive?

[206B3]

I have zero history of this machine. And from the looks of the machine, it wasn't well cared for. Are you thinking BRAM battery. Who knows. Maybe something is tripping the CR25 relay which is the spindle drive fault relay. Not sure where it gets fed from. I'll have to look at my schematics.

[maver1ck]

It sound like you still have multiple issues to address.

The PSR is very possible as the cause for tripping your breaker. I don't see any chance the CNC side of things would have anything to do with that....however if you are frequently tripping the breaker causing a loss of power to the machine (and CNC) you will probably corrupt your hard drive eventually and have another problem to fix.

The Dallas in the VFS5 could be a problem if the machine was without power for an extended time, but I have never had to replace one so don't ever jump to that conclusion. Motionlink may give you a better idea of why the drive is faulting, but if it is not latching (which seems to be what you described), motionlink may not be able to pull the error code. Two more thoughts since you don't know the machine history...1) check your ribbon cables on the top of the drive. They are keyed so should be plugged in correctly but I have come across some that were forced in backwards causing the drive to fault. And 2) check the drives model and software version, the VFS5 were not interchangeable across all of the Cincinnati VMC products so the previous owner could have swapped it with an incompatible one.

[206B3]

Here is an update to my problem. It appears that the situation with the breaker tripping has gone by the wayside. I did a little more poking and prodding, also mixed and matched several contact relays. Now when I push the go button after everything has booted up it consistently gives me a 39-99 alarm "NCA - spindle drive fault". After reading one of Maver1ck's previous posts I tried the two person approach to see what was happening. The M20 contactor latches for about 3 seconds then drops out. During that 3 seconds of latchng, everything is green, no faults. After it drops out the power supply shuts off and the spindle drive remains on with no fault lights. Then I get the 39-99 alarm. It suggests looking at the spindle motor or drive overtemp condition or the spindle regen is faulty. For the life of me I could not find the spindle regen. Is it inside the VFS5? Is it the external one mounted on the top of the cabinet which is hooked to the PSR4/5? If it is the one up top, I unhooked it and tried again with the same results. I located the spindle thermostat wire and clipped one side. Still the same results. What next?

[maver1ck]

As you figured out, the spindle motor regen is wired from the PSR to the regen above the electrical cabinet. What you didn't mention is there is an overload that can trip out and needs to be manually reset.

[206B3]

I found the overload. It was not tripped. Disconnected the wire that goes to the spindle ready relay. Still the same results. I'll see if I can get setup with motionlink+.

[206B3]

I'm getting closer to figuring this thing out. I got Motionlink+ setup. Started off getting a ERR 17 error which points to the resolver. Found several wires that were broken. I fixed them but now I am consistently getting ERR 83

ERROR 83 “BAD OR OUT OF RANGE” SEVERITY 2You entered a parameter to an instruction that was too large or too small. Check Appendix F for limits on variables. Thiserror can also occur when a parameter is in the wrong format, such as a character string where a number is expected.This error breaks program execution if the instruction is issued from the user program.

VSF5 does not show fault light. Seems like my other issues have disappeared. Any clues?

[206B3]

Forgot to mention that I am still getting the 39-99 spindle alarm.