Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration


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Thread: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

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    Default Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    I've been having various problems my Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD after replacing the spindle. Symptoms include reduced performance (bogging at moderate loads), over-voltage alarms on stop braking. Supposedly this is an OEM direct replacement spindle and should be a simple drop-in unit.
    (I'm using this https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zUe...P0h2g7XG7/view as my document reference)

    Trying to figure this problem out, I ran across parameter F1.11 "Self-learning of motor parameters (Invalid for DZB200)". Do I need to re-run the self tuning procedure?

    Problem is I tried it and I can't get parameter F1.11 to change from "0". Is there some trick to this or is my VFD fubarred in some way? It's still 100% unclear if this model even supports an external braking resistor so (??)

    Checking further, I see parameter F1.00 "Inverter model" is set to "2", which is 'set by model' isn't even on the list of valid parameters. Is this another indication that I received is jank? Being a "312B", I expected to see a "0".

    It appears that this parameter is overrideable. Is it ok to set this value to "0" and if so will this give me the ability to set F1.11=1 to recalibrate the FVD to the new spindle?

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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by dwg123 View Post
    I've been having various problems my Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD after replacing the spindle. Symptoms include reduced performance (bogging at moderate loads), over-voltage alarms on stop braking. Supposedly this is an OEM direct replacement spindle and should be a simple drop-in unit.
    (I'm using this https://drive.google.com/file/d/1zUe...P0h2g7XG7/view as my document reference)

    Trying to figure this problem out, I ran across parameter F1.11 "Self-learning of motor parameters (Invalid for DZB200)". Do I need to re-run the self tuning procedure?

    Problem is I tried it and I can't get parameter F1.11 to change from "0". Is there some trick to this or is my VFD fubarred in some way? It's still 100% unclear if this model even supports an external braking resistor so (??)

    Checking further, I see parameter F1.00 "Inverter model" is set to "2", which is 'set by model' isn't even on the list of valid parameters. Is this another indication that I received is jank? Being a "312B", I expected to see a "0".

    It appears that this parameter is overrideable. Is it ok to set this value to "0" and if so will this give me the ability to set F1.11=1 to recalibrate the FVD to the new spindle?
    No you first have to add all motor spec's into the drive and then you can use auto tune

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    No you first have to add all motor spec's into the drive and then you can use auto tune
    F1.01 thru F1.05 are correctly set. Is there a parameter I'm missing??



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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by dwg123 View Post
    F1.01 thru F1.05 are correctly set. Is there a parameter I'm missing??
    Correct once you have the Motor Parameters set then you can use Auto tune, this will then set any other Parameters related to the motor, this will not change other parameters that you may need only motor related Parameters

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration-motor-parameter-settings-png   Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration-auto-tune-png  
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Correct once you have the Motor Parameters set then you can use Auto tune, this will then set any other Parameters related to the motor, this will not change other parameters that you may need only motor related Parameters
    Thanks for the reply @mactec54. Actually I reached out to Folinn (aka Fuling) and they had a rather odd response. Unfortunately the answer isn't as clear as we'd like. So now I'm even more confused about how to set up the VFD correctly for a new spindle. Do you know of any VFD setup tutorials, etc that might help?

    Here's the email in full (with a few identity redactions):

    --->

    Dear XXXXX,
    Greeting form folinn electric in china,
    This is teach supporter Allen,i have received your question,
    For the frist issue, We currently restrict the permissions of many users in the DZB series. The purpose is to cooperate with CNC manufacturers, so many functions are not open to the outside world, including the parameter self-learning function.Sorry you cannot use it.
    As for the second question, I will send you a detailed manual. Please refer to the manual. Regarding the relay output status, AB is normally open and BC is normally closed.

    Thank you for your support!

    --
    Allen
    Overseas Tech Support


    ZHEJIANG NEW FOLINN ELECTRIC CO.,LTD
    ADD:No.9, 26th Street,Eastern New Area,Wenling, Zhejiang,China.
    Website:Home_ZHEJIANG NEW FOLINN ELECTRIC CO.,LTD
    Phone:+86 18871431454/+86 15671764525
    Wechat/whatsapp/line/zalo:+8615671764525
    E-mail:fuling-allen@chinafuling.com

    On 2/27/2021 07:20?XXXXX<XXXXX> wrote?

    Hello Allen,

    Good day. I need help with the Folinn/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD. There are two issues:

    1. Recently I replaced the spindle with what was supposed to be an OEM direct replacement unit. This spindle experiences bog under moderate loads compared to the unit it replaced. I want to run F1.11 "Self-learning of motor parameters" procedure but my VFD will not let me change the parameter to "1". Note, F1.00 "Inverter model" is set to "2". Is this the problem? What can I do to correctly calibrate the VFD to this spindle?

    2. I want to hook up the VFD fault output to the CNC controller but documentation for the unit is not adequate. The documentation wiring diagram does show that the A B C outputs are set for this purpose when F2.21 "Output relay selection" is set to it's default value of "3" "Fault output". However the document does not indicate how to hook up A B C, which are the normal-open and normal-closed circuits? And how are they to be wired? Which side is source & which is sink? Can you please give me clear instructions for how to wire this up? This will be connected in series with other failsafe (normally closed, active-open) alarms and e-stop input to the cnc controller.

    Thanks so much for your assistance.

    Regards,



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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by dwg123 View Post
    Thanks for the reply @mactec54. Actually I reached out to Folinn (aka Fuling) and they had a rather odd response. Unfortunately the answer isn't as clear as we'd like. So now I'm even more confused about how to set up the VFD correctly for a new spindle. Do you know of any VFD setup tutorials, etc that might help?

    Here's the email in full (with a few identity redactions):

    --->

    Dear XXXXX,
    Greeting form folinn electric in china,
    This is teach supporter Allen,i have received your question,
    For the frist issue, We currently restrict the permissions of many users in the DZB series. The purpose is to cooperate with CNC manufacturers, so many functions are not open to the outside world, including the parameter self-learning function.Sorry you cannot use it.
    As for the second question, I will send you a detailed manual. Please refer to the manual. Regarding the relay output status, AB is normally open and BC is normally closed.

    Thank you for your support!

    --
    Allen
    Overseas Tech Support


    ZHEJIANG NEW FOLINN ELECTRIC CO.,LTD
    ADD:No.9, 26th Street,Eastern New Area,Wenling, Zhejiang,China.
    Website:Home_ZHEJIANG NEW FOLINN ELECTRIC CO.,LTD
    Phone:+86 18871431454/+86 15671764525
    Wechat/whatsapp/line/zalo:+8615671764525
    E-mail:fuling-allen@chinafuling.com

    On 2/27/2021 07:20?XXXXX<XXXXX> wrote?

    Hello Allen,

    Good day. I need help with the Folinn/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD. There are two issues:

    1. Recently I replaced the spindle with what was supposed to be an OEM direct replacement unit. This spindle experiences bog under moderate loads compared to the unit it replaced. I want to run F1.11 "Self-learning of motor parameters" procedure but my VFD will not let me change the parameter to "1". Note, F1.00 "Inverter model" is set to "2". Is this the problem? What can I do to correctly calibrate the VFD to this spindle?

    2. I want to hook up the VFD fault output to the CNC controller but documentation for the unit is not adequate. The documentation wiring diagram does show that the A B C outputs are set for this purpose when F2.21 "Output relay selection" is set to it's default value of "3" "Fault output". However the document does not indicate how to hook up A B C, which are the normal-open and normal-closed circuits? And how are they to be wired? Which side is source & which is sink? Can you please give me clear instructions for how to wire this up? This will be connected in series with other failsafe (normally closed, active-open) alarms and e-stop input to the cnc controller.

    Thanks so much for your assistance.

    Regards,
    That is a strange VFD Drive I have never seen a Drive that has Teach ( Auto Tune ) that the user can't use, there will be a pass code for one of the Parameters to be able to change this, I have some of them but not for this VFD Drive

    For your Fault connection you will just connect to the NC relay and it will open when there is a Fault

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    That is a strange VFD Drive I have never seen a Drive that has Teach ( Auto Tune ) that the user can't use, there will be a pass code for one of the Parameters to be able to change this, I have some of them but not for this VFD Drive

    For your Fault connection you will just connect to the NC relay and it will open when there is a Fault
    I received a further clarification from fuling:

    --->
    Dear XXXXX,
    Regarding your first question, I want to answer you, our DZB series use open loop V-F control, you only need to set the motor data according to the parameters on the motor nameplate. For example, motor voltage, frequency, speed, current, power, etc. We have already made cnc application macros before leaving the factory, so there is no need for tedious debugging.Motor parameters are in F1.01~F1.05
    As for the second question, our current manual does not mark the polarity of the relay, but the relay is a commonly used electromagnetic relay, which can be connected to the power supply and used as a switching device.
    --->
    So in summary, according to the manufacturer this auto-tuning feature is irrelevant. (??) I have a support request open with the spindle manufacturer inquiring about these tuning parameters as well. If anything interesting is conveyed (I'm not holding my breath) I'll post it here. Ideally there's some secret OEM unlock code that can be entered to enable auto-tuning.

    As it is, I'm not sure how to resolve my new spindle issues other than trying to re-install the original spindle (bent shaft), reproduce & carefully measure it's performance so I can do a better apples-apples comparison.

    Probably the easiest solution is to just replace the VFD with something better. Any suggestions for a 5.5KW / 220V replacement VFD make/model?

    Regarding the ABC outputs; so, they're just a relay not an open-collector output. I.e. polarity doesn't matter. Maybe I somehow missed that but I was concerned it was an open-collector output.

    Hope all this at least helps someone seeking answers in the future to avoid delays & confusion.



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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by dwg123 View Post
    I received a further clarification from fuling:

    --->
    Dear XXXXX,
    Regarding your first question, I want to answer you, our DZB series use open loop V-F control, you only need to set the motor data according to the parameters on the motor nameplate. For example, motor voltage, frequency, speed, current, power, etc. We have already made cnc application macros before leaving the factory, so there is no need for tedious debugging.Motor parameters are in F1.01~F1.05
    As for the second question, our current manual does not mark the polarity of the relay, but the relay is a commonly used electromagnetic relay, which can be connected to the power supply and used as a switching device.
    --->
    So in summary, according to the manufacturer this auto-tuning feature is irrelevant. (??) I have a support request open with the spindle manufacturer inquiring about these tuning parameters as well. If anything interesting is conveyed (I'm not holding my breath) I'll post it here. Ideally there's some secret OEM unlock code that can be entered to enable auto-tuning.

    As it is, I'm not sure how to resolve my new spindle issues other than trying to re-install the original spindle (bent shaft), reproduce & carefully measure it's performance so I can do a better apples-apples comparison.

    Probably the easiest solution is to just replace the VFD with something better. Any suggestions for a 5.5KW / 220V replacement VFD make/model?

    Regarding the ABC outputs; so, they're just a relay not an open-collector output. I.e. polarity doesn't matter. Maybe I somehow missed that but I was concerned it was an open-collector output.

    Hope all this at least helps someone seeking answers in the future to avoid delays & confusion.
    Interesting reply

    Normally the ( C ) is the common connection

    Are you using 3 Phase power to run this or single phase

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Ok, I'm beginning to understand the situation better. It appears that the Alibaba spindle vendor, who is supposedly the manufacturer, shipped me a mis-labeled sub-par replacement. And over-billed me in the process. I'm requesting an explanation from the vendor but I think this is the issue behind my VFD woes.

    Will update if/when this gets clarified.



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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by dwg123 View Post
    Ok, I'm beginning to understand the situation better. It appears that the Alibaba spindle vendor, who is supposedly the manufacturer, shipped me a mis-labeled sub-par replacement. And over-billed me in the process. I'm requesting an explanation from the vendor but I think this is the issue behind my VFD woes.

    Will update if/when this gets clarified.

    Do you have a 3 phase power supply or a Single phase Power supply???

    Yes that is posable it could be a 380v motor they make and list both 220v /380v

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Do you have a 3 phase power supply or a Single phase Power supply???

    Yes that is posable it could be a 380v motor they make and list both 220v /380v
    That's a good idea but no the motor is clearly labeled 220V. Specifically, the old spindle is labeled:

    HONG YANG
    NYM110-24Z/3.2 *note: this spindle is marked as NYM110 but careful measurement shows the case diameter is actually 105mm.
    3.2kW 220V 8A
    400Hz 24000rpm

    The new spindle is labeled:
    HONG YANG
    NYM105-9-24Z/3.2 *note: yes, the new spindle fit in the 105mm spindle holder
    3.2kW 220V 6A
    400Hz 24000rpm

    How either one adds up to even 3.2KW? 220V * 8A = 1.76KW. 220V * 6A = 1.32KW. The original machine was supposed to be equipped with a 5KW spindle but it removed 6061-T6 with good speed so I didn't complain. The new spindle was supposed to be 4KW. I have sales records to back all this up. I'm currently (unsuccessfully) trying to get the spindle manufacturer to exchange the junk they sent for the unit I paid for. As to the CNC machine OEM, AlphaCNC won't even reply.

    Even though it was 1/5 the price of a domestic machine, I regret purchasing the machine overseas. The level of duplicity and mendacity has wasted *vast* amounts of my time. Probably enough to make up for the price difference. Price is not equal to cost. Expensive lesson learned. /rant



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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by dwg123 View Post
    That's a good idea but no the motor is clearly labeled 220V. Specifically, the old spindle is labeled:

    HONG YANG
    NYM110-24Z/3.2 *note: this spindle is marked as NYM110 but careful measurement shows the case diameter is actually 105mm.
    3.2kW 220V 8A
    400Hz 24000rpm

    The new spindle is labeled:
    HONG YANG
    NYM105-9-24Z/3.2 *note: yes, the new spindle fit in the 105mm spindle holder
    3.2kW 220V 6A
    400Hz 24000rpm

    How either one adds up to even 3.2KW? 220V * 8A = 1.76KW. 220V * 6A = 1.32KW. The original machine was supposed to be equipped with a 5KW spindle but it removed 6061-T6 with good speed so I didn't complain. The new spindle was supposed to be 4KW. I have sales records to back all this up. I'm currently (unsuccessfully) trying to get the spindle manufacturer to exchange the junk they sent for the unit I paid for. As to the CNC machine OEM, AlphaCNC won't even reply.

    Even though it was 1/5 the price of a domestic machine, I regret purchasing the machine overseas. The level of duplicity and mendacity has wasted *vast* amounts of my time. Probably enough to make up for the price difference. Price is not equal to cost. Expensive lesson learned. /rant
    When a 3.2Kw spindle says it is 6A you know there is a problem a regular 2.2Kw are rated at 8A to 8.5A some at 10A

    You have not answered the question if you are using 3 Phase main Power supply or Single Phase ??? and if Single Phase what is your supply amperage

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    When a 3.2Kw spindle says it is 6A you know there is a problem a regular 2.2Kw are rated at 8A to 8.5A some at 10A

    You have not answered the question if you are using 3 Phase main Power supply or Single Phase ??? and if Single Phase what is your supply amperage
    This is 1-phase 220-240VAC power into the Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD that's rated for 5.5KW. There's a 30A+30A breaker at the mains, ~60' 10-Gauge cable to a NXBLE-32 32A breaker on the machine.

    I'm beginning to wonder if they amp-rate these spindles at 380V and don't adjust for 220V operation, resulting in an unintentionally mis-labeled product. Is that a thing? But this still doesn't explain the under-powered behavior of this spindle.



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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Quote Originally Posted by dwg123 View Post
    This is 1-phase 220-240VAC power into the Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD that's rated for 5.5KW. There's a 30A+30A breaker at the mains, ~60' 10-Gauge cable to a NXBLE-32 32A breaker on the machine.

    I'm beginning to wonder if they amp-rate these spindles at 380V and don't adjust for 220V operation, resulting in an unintentionally mis-labeled product. Is that a thing? But this still doesn't explain the under-powered behavior of this spindle.
    What is the input amp rating for the VFD Drive it would have to be over 32A to run the 5.5Kw spindle 30A is not enough for 240v single phase you would need a 40A Plus supply at 240v for the 5.5Kw spindle

    The input Amp rating of the VFD Drive may be restricting the performance of your spindle, normally when you run a a large Hp spindle the VFD Drive has to have a larger Hp rating than your spindle

    So the input Amp rating of the VFD Drive is the important factor when using single phase power supply

    Last edited by mactec54; 03-05-2021 at 11:12 AM.
    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Folin/Fuling DZB312B005.5L2DK VFD new spindle calibration

    Apologies for the delay.

    Regarding, power requirements. To clarify: This is a 5.5KW VFD driving a supposedly 3.2KW spindle motor, although spindle markings indicate the original was 8A and the replacement is 6A neither of which come close to even 3.2KW. Regardless, 5.5KW @ 240V = 25A at most, spread over two 120V circuits. Why would the VFD need 30-40A?

    Specifically the label on my VFD unit specifies:
    MODEL: DZB312B005.5L2DK
    INPUT: 3PH 220V 50/60Hz
    OUTPUT: 3PH 0-220V 0-1000Hz
    POWER: 5.5KW 23A

    I've never had a breaker trip, although this (and improper fault alarm wiring) might at least in part explain the hard crash the machine experienced. It was only under moderate load at the time of the crash.

    This VFD is supplied with 240V 1-phase power, but there are indications it's ratings are for 3-phase power. I can't find any information on this DZB300 '0055L2' VFD model in the documentation or elsewhere and whether it's actually down-rated. Also there is no information on what 'DK' means. I suspect a power brownout.

    Regarding loss of performance, I can't explain why the original spindle was so much more powerful / the replacement is so pathetically weak.

    Original spindle label:
    Jinan HongYang
    NYM110-24Z / 3.2
    3.2kW 220V 8A
    400HZ 24000rpm
    (Note, label is 'NYM110' but spindle body is confirmed 105mm diameter)

    New spindle label:
    Jinan HongYang
    NYM105-9-24Z / 3.2
    3.2kW 220V 6A
    400HZ 24000rpm
    (Note, how a 6A or 8A spindle motor can be labeled 3.2KW as unknown. 3.2KW @ 220V = 14.6A)

    All parameters the same, the new spindle will only run at 10% feed rate of the original spindle which results in too thin chipload. We can't figure out why. The original spindle was able to sustain good material removal rate with the following parameters:

    Tool: Helical 28300 3-flute carbide roughing bit (new) , 1/2" diameter
    Material: 6061-T6 aluminum
    Parameters: cut depth: 0.5" axial, 0.2" radial. 275in/min @ 14050 RPM = 0.063" feed per tooth (chip load)
    Note, these are the recommended parameters from the tool manufacturer for the material using a 3.2KW spindle.

    The original spindle ran well (minimal bogging) with these parameters but the new spindle bogs dangerously at even 20% feed rate. I have to cut feed to 50% and radial cut depth to 0.05" to get an acceptable chip load but then each part takes 8x as long to complete.

    Another symptom is the original spindle stopped fine in 20 seconds. The new spindle needs 30s to stop or gets a E00A error.

    We've been in contact with Jinan HongYang and they can't explain why the new spindle motor is so weak. They say it's the VFD.

    I hope to pin this down soon, so any ideas/suggestions would be really appreciated. Before the wife files divorce papers haha.



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