Water Pump causing all sorts of problems.

[KTMKenny]

I got a 6040 a few weeks ago and have been working at getting it running. All is good except for random jumps and skips on the z and X. The vfd spindle wire is not sheilded. But I have traced the problems to the water pump.

If I turn the pump on even while there is no program running, the x axis jumps. My zero have been wandering also when running programs.

I have the whole cnc in a shed in the garden and only have one power source out there. Is there a way to solve this issue? I have shielded cable for the spindle on order, but I dont think the spindle is the problem...



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[mactec54]

I got a 6040 a few weeks ago and have been working at getting it running. All is good except for random jumps and skips on the z and X. The vfd spindle wire is not sheilded. But I have traced the problems to the water pump.

If I turn the pump on even while there is no program running, the x axis jumps. My zero have been wandering also when running programs.

I have the whole cnc in a shed in the garden and only have one power source out there. Is there a way to solve this issue? I have shielded cable for the spindle on order, but I dont think the spindle is the problem...

Could well be a faulty pump, does it have a Ground wire

[KTMKenny]

No. It's only got 2 wires. Is it possible to earth it?

[mactec54]

No. It's only got 2 wires. Is it possible to earth it?

No if it does not have a Ground wire there would be no way to add one, they are supposedly are double insolated but may be faulty, or you have some bad connections in your wiring that is affected by turning on this pump

Another thing is you may be drawing more current than what your main supply can handle

[Sterob]

Your machine may be being affected by electrical noise due to poor earthing. Some chinese machine are wose than others.
Which one do you have? Someone with a similar machine may have the solution or solutions for you.
It may take many changes to get the final best result.

[DALEK]

Maybe worth checking that the water is totally isolated from the electrical mains. Try measuring the resistance between the water outlet fitting and the supply.

[KTMKenny]

Here is a video I made about the problems.
I did believe the pump may have been the problem, but have now proved it is not that, with the use of a manual pump .

The hole being cut in the video SHOULD be 17mm deep. It cut it about 2mm. It is also moving sideway.

All setting in the provided manual are entered and the machine is calibrated correctly .

The Z axis was working yesterday. Today it is not. So many problems.

The control box was also not earthed properly to case. I earthed the PC, frame and control case together now and back to common earth in my home. Just to make sure is was not static interference.

When making the cut in the video, there was no other machines working in the shed or house ...


I am unsure what to replace. Here is the video link. .. As it from China, getting replacement parts of the suppler is a bit of a nightmare . Not to mention returning them.




Could this be the PC.. Im running an old Dell Pentium 4. Clean install of XP. And using a parallel port.



This thing is wrecking my head.

Here is a pic of the same part cut yesterday The measurements were correct, but the Zero x & y wandered between tool changes. The Z was working fine.

[Sterob]

I see your problem. These are very hard to pin point and you basically have to check *everything* and assume nothing.
I had a similar problem and it turned out to be caused by several small problems. Mine has been good ever since.

The way these machines are assembled is a bit random. Some run smooth while others bind.

I would suggest you try to prove your machine does not have any mechanical problems first.
You appear to have handwheels on the ends of your steppers?. With all power off, manually wind all your axis's
along their entire lengths. They all should be very easy to turn with NO binding.
If you do, start removing parts to try and find the cause.

I had several problems. The gantry was deflecting the ball screw by 2.6 mm on mine! I had to add packing and then re-shim.

I also had binding in one direction only on my Y axis ( weird ) Casue was 2 of the 4 Rail Bearings were dodgey and I replace my entire ball screw and nut for a new one.

Hopefully you won't have these problems, but I am just letting you know what is possible.

Also, are you ball screw lightly lubricated? I use Sewing Machine oil on mine. ( Any light oil will do. )

Check your steppers for smoothness. ( turn without power on ) They should be notchy but without binding. ( I had bad motor bearing as well! )
Make sure your couplings are tight and don't slip and that your steppers are not offset axially, from the ball screw shafts.

What VFD do you have. The HY brand appear to generate alot of electrical noise. The nowforever brand seem to be better.....not sure of others.

You have a few hours work there.....good luck.

Steve

[ericks]

If you can post pic's of your electrical setup then we can maybe advise you on any possible wiring issues related to "noise"...

[KTMKenny]

Thanks so much for your help this far. I am new to this and dont know what is OK and what is not.
I have had a look at the way the machine moves and it also does not seem right. The ball screw shafts on each end seem to be bent. They cause resistance on each rotation. On both x and y axis.
The video shows me pulling the gantry by hand from one end to the other. The far end gets quite stiff. Im not sure if this is acceptable . Can the motors power through this? Will the bearings on the stepper motors get damaged?

the cupler underneath the machine is also not located firmly into each other the full way. Could they have done this to hide the runout?

I posted pics of the box and spindle and how everything is pluged into the mains.

Should I be sending the lot back to china? It may have been dropped in transit.




Album link of picks below.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/38bcqo45e/

[mactec54]

Thanks so much for your help this far. I am new to this and dont know what is OK and what is not.
I have had a look at the way the machine moves and it also does not seem right. The ball screw shafts on each end seem to be bent. They cause resistance on each rotation. On both x and y axis.
The video shows me pulling the gantry by hand from one end to the other. The far end gets quite stiff. Im not sure if this is acceptable . Can the motors power through this? Will the bearings on the stepper motors get damaged?

the cupler underneath the machine is also not located firmly into each other the full way. Could they have done this to hide the runout?

I posted pics of the box and spindle and how everything is pluged into the mains.

Should I be sending the lot back to china? It may have been dropped in transit.




Album link of picks below.

https://postimg.cc/gallery/38bcqo45e/

What do you have the in motor tuning settings for Velocity and acceleration lower these numbers and try it

The hand wheel on the back of the motor does not matter if it wobbles, the motor shaft it not,can't see the wobble in the ballscrew, but if it is then yes it could cause jamming, if the gantry has tight spots then it sounds like you need to realign the rails so they are parallel to each other, and then align ballscrew to the rails, this is quite common for these machines to need adjustments when you get them

I don't think sending it back would be an option as it most likely will cost near as much as the machine is worth

[KTMKenny]

I have ordered some .75mm screened 4 core wire to replace the spindle wire. What size would you recommend for the steppers. Might as well do the lot.

[KTMKenny]

I have ordered some .75mm screened 4 core wire to replace the spindle wire. What size would you recommend for the steppers. Might as well do the lot.

[mactec54]

I have ordered some .75mm screened 4 core wire to replace the spindle wire. What size would you recommend for the steppers. Might as well do the lot.

Did you run it without the spindle turned on and did it do the same thing, if it did then that would eliminate the spindle wiring even though I don't see a Ground wire going to your spindle

One thing to check is if your spindle has a 4 pin plug if it has check with a meter the continuity between the 4th pin ( Ground pin ) and the spindle body, most of these spindles do not have a Ground connected and this needs to be corrected

[KTMKenny]

I have just run it for 30 mins. Put m43 on the end
Same pocket toolpath. No spindle.
I lost about .4mm on the X. Y perfect. Must be the spindle.
I tested the Earth on the spindle with a meter. Strange result. It is getting to earth, but there is resistance also. I think it's earthing thought the linier bearings. Only 3 wires connected in the plug. But has 4 pins in the plug

[Sterob]

What do you have the in motor tuning settings for Velocity and acceleration lower these numbers and try it

The hand wheel on the back of the motor does not matter if it wobbles, the motor shaft it not,can't see the wobble in the ballscrew, but if it is then yes it could cause jamming, if the gantry has tight spots then it sounds like you need to realign the rails so they are parallel to each other, and then align ballscrew to the rails, this is quite common for these machines to need adjustments when you get them

I don't think sending it back would be an option as it most likely will cost near as much as the machine is worth

Agree with Mactec.
Its hard to judge when there's a problem without seeing it before. It can be subtle.
Turning the motors by hand will feel 'notchy' but 'smooth' If you feel any 'drag' its not good.
Sorry...hard to describe.
Once you feel a difference between 2 axis, you will notice the problem.
Its best to give the steppers a fighting chance to do their job and not be handicapped with mechanical issues.

Ballscrews and Ball Nuts:


Its common for chinese machines to need 'mechanically tuning'. I guess they are just slapped together in the factory.
Mine even had paper shims!

Somethine else I thought of....Run a job and check the CPU load and and memory usage in Windows. Make sure you are not running right on the limits....
How much ram have you got? 4Gig seems fine....8 Gig will be more comfortable.

[KTMKenny]

I took the back of the X axis gantry. In honestly can't find any mechanical resistance. The steppers turn smooth. If i turns them quick by hand, they stutter. But I think this is also normal. CPU usage at 16% through out the whole toolpath. I'm thinking of biteting the bullet and getting a new controller. I think I may be able to negotiate a part refund through eBay buyer protection. What do buy that is affordable is the next question.

[mactec54]

I have just run it for 30 mins. Put m43 on the end
Same pocket toolpath. No spindle.
I lost about .4mm on the X. Y perfect. Must be the spindle.
I tested the Earth on the spindle with a meter. Strange result. It is getting to earth, but there is resistance also. I think it's earthing thought the linier bearings. Only 3 wires connected in the plug. But has 4 pins in the plug

So when you get your shielded cable you will be able to connect the Ground Pin in the plug, did you use the ringer to check the continuity you need to do it by this method , 4th pin to the spindle body

This is what you have to do with most spindles from China as the don't have the Ground connected in the spindle plug

What is the M43 for, you may be having some problem with your programing as well post the program you are using also an M43 is not used for one of these type of machines

[KTMKenny]

So when you get your shielded cable you will be able to connect the Ground Pin in the plug, did you use the ringer to check the continuity you need to do it by this method , 4th pin to the spindle body

This is what you have to do with most spindles from China as the don't have the Ground connected in the spindle plug

What is the M43 for, you may be having some problem with your programing as well post the program you are using also an M43 is not used for one of these type of machines

M43 replaced m30 at the end of a program. It prompts the cycle to restart. So I have it going continuously repeating. I did this without the spindle activated . Problem still exists.
I earthed the clamp of the spindle which should do the same thing as connecting to a terminal. For now.
Trying to fix a brand new machine is very testing. But I guess I was warned about Chinese machines.

[mactec54]

M43 replaced m30 at the end of a program. It prompts the cycle to restart. So I have it going continuously repeating. I did this without the spindle activated . Problem still exists.
I earthed the clamp of the spindle which should do the same thing as connecting to a terminal. For now.
Trying to fix a brand new machine is very testing. But I guess I was warned about Chinese machines.

If there is any noise adding a Ground wire won't help at all, it would work as an antenna and could create the worse problem, most of these machines don't have a noise problem, so I'm wondering why yours is, they usually have chokes on the cables to help with any noise

What other wiring have you done or changed