Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

[Frankmali17]

Hey Guys..
Can you recommend and PDF Translator that actually works? I tried some PDF documents that are in chinease.. but most sites just get stuck.

Thanks

[serum]

I had great succes with the google translator. Limited to 100pages though, but easy to part the PDF. (perhaps that's your issue too) just hand me the PDF, and i'll help.

I was thinking about swapping the front portion of the vacuum-table to aluminium or HPL with threaded inserts. the ability to both clamp and vacuum is my favourite.

Bought 6mm silicone foam rope and some of these ball mills. I was planning on slotting with a 4 or 5mm single flute and finish with this ball. (might give some chatter, need to experiment with it in aluminum).

Curious to see your photo's Mike!

[mikejeffers]

Here are just a few pics I already had on my phone.
This is the horizontal head set up. We made a new wider vertical mount for the spindle and made it wide enough to accommodate the horizontal mount. Notice the pipe to the left. We had to thread the ends. We did this with the horizontal set up. The cutter is a thread mill with a chamfer bit mounted on a ring around the cutter. Wrote the program to feed in on the center of the pipe to generate the chamfer, then to interpolate the threads in 2 passes.

[mikejeffers]

Cutter was made. 1" shank. Had to use a BT30 tool holder. The ISO holders I have are just for collets and the max size was 3/4". Made a tool finger specifically for the BT30 holder so we can use 1" tooling in the vertical set ups also.

[mikejeffers]

Pics

[mikejeffers]

Polishing my new table. The vacuum plate appeared to have been drilled by hand for mounting. There was no consistency in the mounting pattern. I located each hole manually and recorded the dimension. We put the new aluminum tooling plate on top of the vacuum plate and drilled the table mounting holes and the future fixture holes. When we removed the vacuum table, it had been shimmed over 3/16", so we removed all the plastic shims, screwed down aluminum shims with deep countersunk flat head screws, machined the shims, then mounted the table. Resulting flatness less than .005 across the entire 57-5/8" by 98-7/8". I was pumped. Next operation was to cut keyways in the table for kurt vise or other attachments.

[mikejeffers]

Just some fun before changing table tops.

[serum]

If you ever need to mount larger diameter mills; there are ER40 iso30 holders available. (they can hold up to 25mm/ 1")

[Frankmali17]

Hey Mike, Looks like you are a capable machinist...
That was brave making those mods to the machine...
So... If you converted the Spindle Mount... does it always stay Horizontal now?.. Or can it go Vertical to be a normal Router?
Is it easy to go back and forth?..

ALSO... I have an HSD ATC 9Kw spindle... Can you guys confirm from experience, if the BT30 toolholder has the same taper and pullstud threads as an ISO 30?...
Sometimes a BT30 is a lot cheaper. SO I was wondering if I could just put an HSD iso 30 pull stud on it.. and use it the same?...
The slots on the BT30.. are important when you are doing "indexed" operations, such as threading..

Does your spindle have encoder feedback to SYNTEC?...

[serum]

Frank, your inbox is full, was trying to sent you a message.

The threading he is doing doesn't require indexing. ISO/BT30; The taper is the same, and the thread should be M12 as well, but they need other forks in the ATC. You should be aware that there are several BT and ISO30 holder out there. Some ISO30's have a cilinder shoulder on the back.

The problem with BT30 is that they are not meant for high RPM's, I haven't found them balanced >12000rpm. I bought a face-mill for machining the spoilboard using a larger indexable mill,that uses BT30, but i don't know if i am going to use it.

For our expensive HSD spindles I would recommend a good collet that also uses a balanced nut. (this is required, since these nuts are unbalanced by design) i made the mistake of buying a few unbalanced nuts for my current machine (ER20), but you can't use them on high RPM

The ISO30 holders can be bought for about 23usd, balanced to 30krpm (with a balanced nut)
Pullstuds also vary; the HSD needs a 45degree taper, if memory serves right.

[mikejeffers]

Hi guys.
My set up takes less than 30 minutes to go from vertical to horizontal. In the picture you can see that all that has to be done is removing the gusset bolts from the side of the upright. There are 3 bolts and 2 dowels that you can't see holding the horizontal plate to the vertical. 6 bolts on the spindle and that's it. BT30s are not balanced, so we don't run them over 3500rpm. They do require a different fork. I also have an hsd spindle. I'm in Decatur, Illinois about 4 hours south of Chicago.

[mikejeffers]

I wanted to add that I have a 4th axis rotary head, but my syntec 6ma is only 3 axis. I have made mechanical locks for the x axis and can unplug the x axis and plug those into the rotary and it will turn, home and works fine. My question is, what is the best easiest way to utilize this? I program with GibbsCAM, but don't have a post processor that outputs rotary code. I have calculated the an x move of 43.760" will rotate the head exactly one revolution. I have been able to write simple programs for indexing parts, but not anything very complicated. For instance if I wanted a 90 degree move I would just program x to move 10.94"(43.760/4).
So I have heard of people "wrapping the x axis, but am not sure if that is what to do or not.
It would be fun to machine a horse face or something like that around a piece of wood or plastic, but not sure which direction to head. Any suggestions?

[serum]

Just make the drawing with an X width of 43.760 and set te correct number of encoder pulses per mm to make sure 43.760 of motion on the X equals 1 turn of the rotary. I don't know what you want to machine, and if it needs to be in continues motion on the A axis? If that's the case you could modify your PP for 4th axis use, so it uses X as an A axis.

[Frankmali17]

Hey Serum... I guess I'm just going to stick with ISO30.

If it works.. it works.. I don't need to start another can of worms... But thank you for clarifying the differences.

[Frankmali17]

Hello Mike...
I am supprised that you got it to work as much as you did, without the 4th axis capability.

I would say that if you were needing this a lot.. you would need the 6MB contoller.... but at that point.. maybe a machine just for cutting those threads would be better.

As far as SYNTEC 6MB.. it has parameters to set up the 4th axis.
I have yet to use it on my machine to make an actual part... but...

My machine makers.. set up Syntec with a Portable Rotary axis.. with it's own servo and servo drive. In the parameters.. it's actually the 6th axis.. it's setup up as "rotary" and "A-axis"...

I tested it.. and it works.. but have not made any GCODE with any CAD/CAM software to test it further.

I actually have to change 2 parameters to disable the 4th axis function.. so that I can "home" and "run" my CNC router without it thinking there are alarms... as I unplug and put away the rotary.

Your setup seems like a lathe actually... Mine would work from a vertical position..

I know the Vectric creates code for Rotary axis "wrapping"... kind of like making a table leg, or some other cylinder.

[mikejeffers]

Here are a couple pics of the completed top. I am trying to upload a short video showing the threading process, but I have to figure out how. It will explain a lot about how we are threading the pipes.
I should get a chance later this week or next to play with the rotary head. I think I will just leave it as an X axis for now and see how much trouble I can get into. I will change the over travel parameters to max.

[mikejeffers]

Video of pipe thread cutting

[Frankmali17]

Hey Mike...
it looks like a beautiful aluminum table... is it all from one large sheet of aluminum?

I saw your you tube video...
Very creative way of adapting a router to cut threads in such a way... it's almost like a lathe...

I wonder.. if you could get the pipe into that Rotary axis that seems to be sitting on the side there... Maybe the chuck could spin the end of the pipe.. while the right kind o Vbit could come in vertically from the top.. and move in sync with the rotary axis...
Kind of like a wrapping toolpath in VCarve.. for like a leg...
But I guess that would require the 4 axis capability.
Apparently there is a guy in China that could get these 6MB controllers off a "chinease Ebay"... But then I don't know how much trouble it would be to convert the machine.
I guess, if it works for you.. You should leave it alone.

My router has to be used for a veriaty of jobs.. Cabinet parts, one piece doors, sometimes moldings.. etc...
I like your creative engineering.

- - - Updated - - -

I have a Syntec 6MB Router.. with 16 linear tools.. and I'm hoping to add at least 10 more...
maybe 32 total...
Will see.

[mikejeffers]

Yup. All one sheet of solid 1-1/4" thick aluminum. Machined in the router.
There is not a through hole in the 4th axis Chuck, so we will continue the threads as shown. The video was a first run. Since that time we have added a chamfer bit to the cutter, adjusted speeds and feeds and put a support inside the pipe so as not to egg it when clamping in the vise. You can hear that the cut is a tad bit heavier on the top and bottom of the pipe because the vise was squishing it out of round. All been fixed with the inner support.
Wow, 16 tools on a linear changer? More to come? You must use your tool changer a ton. How do you have that many arraigned?

[hoanghai2485]

I would like to start a new thread Regarding the SYNTEC Controller, that is finding it's way in the USA marker.

It is usually found on CNC Routers... and can be configured in many different ways.

Sadly, Once you get the machine you paid for.. the manufacturers overseas are not much help.

While SYNTEC is a huge company, and the Controller seems quite robust and industrial, there is very little support.

SYNTEC manufacturer does not respond to any inquiries..
Documentation is outdated, poorly translated, and unreliable.

I would like to suggest all SYNTEC users to share their experiences, input, questions, and resources on this Thread.

This community will probably be your best chance for advice.

Good luck to us all !

FrankMali17 - SYNTEC 6MB on CNC Router with ATC Spindle and Linear Tools
Using SYNTEC since 2015

Hi Frankmali17
I am using CNC ATC model with 12 tool changing carousel magazine + auto loading system (none drilling block) with Syntec 6MB. Do you have post processor for this kind of machine.
Thank for your kind to share.