Taiwan - SYNTEC - 6MB or 6MA - Controller Discussions

[Frisian]

Hi all,

we're currently planning some improvements to our machine. Most of them mechanically... from what I can tell the backlash compensation features of the Syntec 6 MB on our machine aren't enabled. Our portal is driven by rack and pinions in X and Y, only Z is driven by a ball screw. Has anyone some expierence how to set up backlash compensation ?

Another controller related issue is just the question if it's feasible to read out a external touch probe? We've got an inductive tool height setter to measure our tool lenght. And most of the time we're using a mechanical edge finder to locate our workpieces.
The specific probe I've considered would be this one Wildhorse Innovations - Econo-Probe 3D Probe & Tool Height Setter , as far as I know our firmware on the controller doesn't feature probing routines unless for the tool lenght. But it might be possible to use custom gcode to set up probing routines. Only issue for me would be adressing it within that code or macro where I could need some advice to get started.

[IN-WondeR]

If your machine is setup properly, there would be no backlash in your rack and pinions..

[IN-WondeR]

On another note. Does anyone know how to setup an external, start and feedhold button on the syntec 6MB?

[Frisian]

If your machine is setup properly, there would be no backlash in your rack and pinions..

Its not a split-pinion nor a dual-pinion setup on our machine. As the machine is of chinese origin, I strongly doubt it to have zero backlash. Especially as it's travels are 3000 x 1500 x 300 mm.
I'm actually planning ahead and haven't measured the backlash for the axes driven by rack and pinions yet. The z axis seems to be fine. Except that the spindle itself is out of tram. But that's an issue which can't be fixed by the controller.

[IN-WondeR]

I'm also running a Chinese machine, and I have no backlash noticable.

Even brand new Biesse machines do not run with split pinions or dual pinions anymore, they also run with single pinions.
So backlash should be pretty close to none, if the racks are of good quality.
Mine have Heron Rack and pinions on it, so those are of good quality.

[Frisian]

What's the major material you're processing with yours ?
We had a production run of a few thousands parts in acrylic / PMMA. And too many parts were rejected by the quality control of the customer. Thus we're checking the whole the machine currently in case we've got some time to spare.

The backlash which I could measure on the z axis has been somewhere between 0.003 - 0.005 mm which is more than fine for our uses. As said before, I still need to check for the x and y axis for backlash. If I'm able to measure considerable backlash, then it will make sense to use the backlash compensation feature. At least our HSD 929 spindle is better than expected, minimal runout. Tool holders are quite okay as well... only the ER32 collets we've got aren't up to spec, runouts are worse than they should be.

Anyway. From the documentation ( Syntec CNC Application Manual - published 2015/11/13) in the related chapter 4.7.1 it's just not obvious if the backlash compensation could be set up for each axis individually.

[IN-WondeR]

What's the major material you're processing with yours ?
We had a production run of a few thousands parts in acrylic / PMMA. And too many parts were rejected by the quality control of the customer. Thus we're checking the whole the machine currently in case we've got some time to spare.

The backlash which I could measure on the z axis has been somewhere between 0.003 - 0.005 mm which is more than fine for our uses. As said before, I still need to check for the x and y axis for backlash. If I'm able to measure considerable backlash, then it will make sense to use the backlash compensation feature. At least our HSD 929 spindle is better than expected, minimal runout. Tool holders are quite okay as well... only the ER32 collets we've got aren't up to spec, runouts are worse than they should be.

Anyway. From the documentation ( Syntec CNC Application Manual - published 2015/11/13) in the related chapter 4.7.1 it's just not obvious if the backlash compensation could be set up for each axis individually.

I mainly run foam and wood.

But I’m also beginning to get more and more plastic and carbon fiber in the shop.

My machine is a Sudiao SD-1325

Very well built machine.

I'm running a HSD ES951 Spindle, uhhh I'm loving it.. Worth the upgrade cost of $2200 instead of the Chinese version.

[idank]

Hey folks,

I've gone through most of this thread but couldn't find the answer to: what are the differences between the 6MA and 6MB? One thing the salesman said is that 6MA has 4 motor inputs while the 6MB has 5. So if the machine has a carousel ATC or a rotary attachment, I guess I'd want the 6MB? What else differentiates the two? They said they can switch between the two for free.

Also, has anyone heard good/bad things about BCAMCNC? Only seen a few messages on this forum and they're quite old.

Thanks!

[Frisian]

6MA = 3 axis, max 1 spindle, max. simultaneous axis 3 ( X Y Z)
6MB = 4 axis, max. 2 spindles, max. simultaneous axis 4 (usually X Y Z and additional C axis )

We've got the 6MB, our portal X axis is driven by two servos which are synchronized. Our carousel ATC isn't considered as a individual axis by the controller. But that might differ across the different manufacturers.
C axis is still available in the controller, but unused. We haven't tried to use a rotary attachment on the machine up so far so I can't confirm this.

It can't hurt to choose the 6MB, than you have at least the upgrade option to control a 4th axis without replacing the whole controller in the end, which would be a pain.

Examples for a 4 axis would be a dividing / indexing head. Or a 90° aggregate for your spindle which would allow horizontal operations for instance, the C axis would be the rotation around Z,

Sadly I'm not familiar with BCAMCNC, our machine is a Signkey. I wouldn't recommend them. We had lots of troubles with our wiring.

[idank]

6MA = 3 axis, max 1 spindle, max. simultaneous axis 3 ( X Y Z)
6MB = 4 axis, max. 2 spindles, max. simultaneous axis 4 (usually X Y Z and additional C axis )

We've got the 6MB, our portal X axis is driven by two servos which are synchronized. Our carousel ATC isn't considered as a individual axis by the controller. But that might differ across the different manufacturers.
C axis is still available in the controller, but unused. We haven't tried to use a rotary attachment on the machine up so far so I can't confirm this.

It can't hurt to choose the 6MB, than you have at least the upgrade option to control a 4th axis without replacing the whole controller in the end, which would be a pain.

Examples for a 4 axis would be a dividing / indexing head. Or a 90° aggregate for your spindle which would allow horizontal operations for instance, the C axis would be the rotation around Z,

Sadly I'm not familiar with BCAMCNC, our machine is a Signkey. I wouldn't recommend them. We had lots of troubles with our wiring.

Thanks Frisian. I wonder if there's real benefit when a rotary is involved in having all 4 axis rotate. After all the X axis isn't all that necessary in normal operation since the rotary is kind of fulfilling its role. I can imagine more advanced 3d tool paths that e.g. Fusion 360 can generate that do use all axis though.

Regardless, it seems like a no brainer to go with 6MB then, if only to save the hassle of unplugging the X and plugging the rotary to the controller, no?

[Frisian]

.
I'm running a HSD ES951 Spindle, uhhh I'm loving it.. Worth the upgrade cost of $2200 instead of the Chinese version.

Our machine is slightly bigger, also equipped with a HSD spindle, model ES 929 which has it max torque at 12000 rpm. Rated for 20000 rpm and 7.5kw in continous use, peak 24000 rpm, 9,0kw. But we're avoiding spindle speeds above 20000.

In general... for our purposes the machine is actually oversized. And I'ld prefer a spindle which would offer it's max torque at 6000-8000 rpms which is also water cooled instead of the air cooled version we've got.
We're mostly processing sheets of aluminium, brass, acrylics. Sometimes wood. Occassionally stainless steel ( but only engraving ).

[Frankmali17]

I own a BCAM CNC machine.. and I'm mostly satisfied.
It wasn't delivered perfect.. but not nearly as much trouble as Others here looking for help.
It also depends how much upgraded equipment you will be ordering.

It is still a risky thing ordering long distance.

[Frankmali17]

As far as external feed hold... I am pretty sure I have seen Key-stroke mapping.. so a keyboard may be able to be plugged in..
Although it may need a ladder modification,etc...

Maybe attaching an additional wired input, to the input board. .and than modifying the CNC Ladder, to respond, the same way, as when you hit the Feedhold button on the controller panel..
that would probably work... but required significant work to the controller ladder.

[idank]

I own a BCAM CNC machine.. and I'm mostly satisfied.
It wasn't delivered perfect.. but not nearly as much trouble as Others here looking for help.
It also depends how much upgraded equipment you will be ordering.

It is still a risky thing ordering long distance.

Hey Frank, sent you a private message, appreciate it if you could take a look. Thanks!

[idank]

Can anyone please clear up this point to me: another thread here mentioned how some manufacturers will not configure the Y1/Y2 motors properly and connect them to the same driver/port on the controller. What is this about? What should I be asking to make sure this doesn't happen on my machine? I already verified there would be a driver for each of the four Yaskawa motors.

Also, what are the differences between 6MB and 21A? Some claim 21A is newer while 6MB is 10 years old, but there isn't a lot of info on 21A out there so I'm a bit worried about going with it. From the few images I did get of 21A, it seems to be using a Windows XP as a front end with a PC keyboard, which sound like a potential issue to me.

[Frisian]

The 6 series controllers were introduced some years ago, indeed. They're Windows CE based systems and ... by no means as fast as your usual desktop pc or notebook. It takes some time to simulate complex programs. Just as a example, workpieces with programs of several thousand lines of g-code might not be done processing at the end of the day. So you've got to stop it. And note the last line it processed to continue the day after. When you're going to continue at line 20000 or so, depending on the code, it can take several minutes, just to skip to the line of code.

Sadly I'm not familiar with the 21A... and only can find informations about the 21MA. In comparison to the 6MB that one would have more RAM, larger screen options and would support up to 6 axis instead of the 4 axis support of the 6MB.

Regarding the Y1/Y2 motor. No clue how to avoid issues up front or how to communicate that with the manufacturer. But I think that they are not building the very first machine. In other words, hope for the best !

Insist to achieve a proper test protocol before it leaves the factory. Ask for assitance on arrival. If you want to be on the safe side, hire a technican to compose a acceptance testingprotocoll.

[loober]

Hello, I have a Syntec EZ4 controller and I have an issue with the Y axis overshooting the cuts. I can't find any information as to how I can adjust the overshooting/undershooting. X and Z have no issues whatsoever. It's pretty bad but consistent. Over 22 inches it's almost 1/16 bigger , 8 feet is almost 1/8 of an inch. X is dead on. I'm pretty comfortable using the machine and adjusting parameters if only I would find out which one it is. There is no backlash issue, machine is rigid and I can't for the life of me jiggle it around. Would anyone here know the parameter for it?

[loober]

Hello, I have a Syntec EZ4 controller and I have an issue with the Y axis overshooting the cuts. I can't find any information as to how I can adjust the overshooting/undershooting. X and Z have no issues whatsoever. It's pretty bad but consistent. Over 22 inches it's almost 1/16 bigger , 8 feet is almost 1/8 of an inch. X is dead on. I'm pretty comfortable using the machine and adjusting parameters if only I would find out which one it is. There is no backlash issue, machine is rigid and I can't for the life of me jiggle it around. Would anyone here know the parameter for it?

I got it figured out. It was param 61 and 65 for me. Initial value of gain was 2500 but it was overshooting my cuts and I double checked gcode from multiple different posts from different programs. I adjusted the y axis and the '6th' axis which I don't have to the same value because the machine had similar values throughout the other params for the this '6th' axis which I truly hope is not the 2 y axis servos separated and counted as different axis. My magic number was 2497 and my cuts are now dead on with both X and Y. I have not actually tested Z yet but that's up next I suppose.

[Frisian]

Does anyone has a clue if it's feasible to drip feed the Syntec 6MB controller ?

The main issue I've got... WinCE doesn't have a lot of performance. Processing a manual file import usually takes at least 45sec. until the directory listings are pulled from our server. I strongly doubt that the controller itself supports more than 100mbit ethernet speeds. Thus it might be a bottleneck.
As I've got a pretty large job currently, which requires a lot of individual adjustments in the z direction. Tool paths that are already at correct depth need to be simply deselected in our CAM software. For the whole changes, which are essentially minor changes... the current workflow takes at least 5 minutes or so. Which is pretty inefficient.

Or is it's feasible to push the data directly via ethernet onto the controllers storage ? Another option which came to my mind would be a USB flash drive with additional WiFi connectivity ? USB 3.0 won't be a option as well...

[loober]

Does anyone has a clue if it's feasible to drip feed the Syntec 6MB controller ?

The main issue I've got... WinCE doesn't have a lot of performance. Processing a manual file import usually takes at least 45sec. until the directory listings are pulled from our server. I strongly doubt that the controller itself supports more than 100mbit ethernet speeds. Thus it might be a bottleneck.
As I've got a pretty large job currently, which requires a lot of individual adjustments in the z direction. Tool paths that are already at correct depth need to be simply deselected in our CAM software. For the whole changes, which are essentially minor changes... the current workflow takes at least 5 minutes or so. Which is pretty inefficient.

Or is it's feasible to push the data directly via ethernet onto the controllers storage ? Another option which came to my mind would be a USB flash drive with additional WiFi connectivity ? USB 3.0 won't be a option as well...

Set your machine up with FTP. Connect machine to your router via ethernet cable and turn on FTP in network settings and use FileZilla to put files directly on machine from any computer on the network. Only one client can upload files not multiple computers at once. I never got the regular network going for my machine and FTP is just drag n drop the gcode file.