ISO 30 Spindle - Page 5


Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 116

Thread: ISO 30 Spindle

  1. #81
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    67
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loadedagain View Post
    not sure about adding bearings, but isn't abec7 a little excessive? what do you feel the benefits are as opposed to the abec1/3 is? they're $20... and the 7's are almost $600 for a pair.
    A pair is $300 which is still alot. But after reading this thread, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...=abec7+nc+cams, I realized that it would probably be money well spent. I would only get the pair for the lower bearings but I'm am concerned if the spindle housing is toleranced well enough for the bearings.

    Bob -

    Where are you getting your pulley to fit the spindle shape? Any ideas how your going to tension the belts yet?



  2. #82
    Gold Member BobWarfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    RE pulleys, many different suppliers have them. I've just looked at McMaster Carr for design purposes to see their dimensions. Before beginning the project I would need to find who has the best deal. As I've mentioned, for me this project is behind a few other things in the queue, so I won't expect to get started on it for quite a few months.

    RE tensioning, I intend to build a new housing for this spindle, rather than trying to reuse the old one. I'll be milling some slots for the motor so it can slide to provide that tension. I could also mount the motor on a plate in a slideway with a threaded bolt to provide the tension. We will see.

    One design issue I'm still pondering is speed ranges. I would like to get 6K to 8K rpm for aluminum, but steel wants to run a lot slower. If I cover that whole range with just the VFD, there is not going to be much torque available for steel. It seems inevitable that the system wants a Hi/Lo range for best performance over a broad range of spindle speeds. Still contemplating the best way to go about providing that.

    I may investigate a tumbler back gear arrangement at the motor end that can halve the motor speed for cutting tougher materials. I hate the thought of changing pulleys, but that is another simpler possibility.

    If any of us actually get the silly thing to work well for $300 in bearings and a $65 spindle, it will be a lifetime achievement award and very cheap for a decent spindle. Try not to think too hard about what it'll be like if you get the preload wrong and burnup a few sets of those bearing--Doh!

    Spindles have to be one of the more finicky and difficult projects one could tackle.

    Best,

    BW



  3. #83
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Suffolk, UK
    Posts
    2512
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    NC Cams last words in the last post of the thread you identify were:

    ..................................quote........... .........................
    Sherline example is this: the abec 1's worked fine in a commercially built/tolearnced item. Do NOTHING more than replace 1/s with 7's and abject misery sets in. Yet, in an ABEC 7 toleranced housing (worked on some of them too) the thing "fell" together.

    Morale: you can't take a sow's ear housing, install rocket ship quality bearings and expect it to work. The converse should also be true although I haven't wasted the time trying to prove it...
    ...................................end quote............................................. ......

    Kinda sums it all up. If the bearing tolerances are specified in microns then so are the tolerances for the housing and the spindle. So when you upgrade to ABEC 7's what to do about upgrading the housing. Also what about the tolerance on concentricity of the spindle taper to the spindle bearing seats and the seat diameteres themselves, microns as well I guess.

    Regards
    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by kimoyo View Post
    A pair is $300 which is still alot. But after reading this thread, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showth...=abec7+nc+cams, I realized that it would probably be money well spent. I would only get the pair for the lower bearings but I'm am concerned if the spindle housing is toleranced well enough for the bearings.

    Bob -

    Where are you getting your pulley to fit the spindle shape? Any ideas how your going to tension the belts yet?




  4. #84
    Gold Member BobWarfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by philbur View Post
    Kinda sums it all up. If the bearing tolerances are specified in microns then so are the tolerances for the housing and the spindle. So when you upgrade to ABEC 7's what to do about upgrading the housing. Also what about the tolerance on concentricity of the spindle taper to the spindle bearing seats and the seat diameteres themselves, microns as well I guess.

    Regards
    Phil
    First, recall I intend to make a cartridge spindle and not reuse the original housing. I'll also eliminate the quill function altogether, as this will be a CNC only spindle. That means I have to build it all anyway, and can do the housing as a piece of DOM tubing, which simplifies the task of fitting bearings.

    Per Fafnir (Timken if you prefer), we need an OD fit within 2.5 tenths, and the same ID fit on their ABEC7 AC bearings for machine tool spindles. These are doable numbers in a home shop, but the easy answer is you take it to a grinding shop and let them worry about it. This would include regrinding the taper with the bearings installed to ensure concentricity, OD grinding the spindle/bearing mating surface, and ID grinding the DOM spindle cartridge. The bearing catalogs, as NC Cams is wont to point out many times, have all the info you need. p202 of the Fafnir Super Precision Bearings catalog walks through these considerations, for example.

    For the more ambitious, you can have a go at tolerances yourself. Again, 2.5 tenths ought to be very feasible. A toolpost grinder is the likely approach, though one could also investigate the techniques of the turbine building crowd or the build your own tool grinder crowd. 5Bears, for example, has a nice treatise on accurately fitting shafts and bearings to precise tolerances. There are a lot of techniques available to help sneak up on the accuracy successfully, but it still won't be an easy job. As I mention above, getting it all done without blowing up at least one set of bearings on the learning curve will be a major achievement.

    I have collected quite a list of resources on this in my research. Even came across a guy who rebuild a Haas spindle, which was pretty interesting. That was definitely an ABEC-7 situation and he managed to get it done in home shop level environment and never having done it before. Those bearings were a lot more than $300 a pair too! He checked his taper to see if it would need to be reground, but ultimately decided not to.

    I would check the taper last, after the spindle has been run on the bench for a bit to ensure all else is well, and in particular, that the bearings aren't running too hot, and that your lubrication system is working for your application. The latter cannot be underestimated!

    Best,

    BW



  5. #85
    Community Moderator JRouche's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    xxxx
    Posts
    117
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I also bought the IH 30 taper spindle. Why not. I cant make it for sixty five bucks. But, I think I could ebay it on up in the future if I don’t get to THAT project. Lotta projects going.

    As for which taper is better? Dunno..I guess it could depend on how much tooling you already have. For example. If you already have many tool holders in 30 taper because you have three other mills using it that taper would be a time saver.

    I have a Bridgeport in 30 taper (kwik switch 30 actually) and I don’t notice any difference in performance verses the R-8 taper in another mill. The KS is quicker but only due to the mounting. I am not speaking of that, only performance as far as stiffness and run out are concerned.

    Sometimes I wonder if folks are tightening (seating) the tapers enough. To be a good seat the tool holder needs to be pulled up quite firmly within the spindle.

    Now, as far as R-8 collets go. Hatem..A weak collet IMO.. I don’t use them.

    Going back, I think it comes down to tooling. If you already have a large selection of 30 taper tooling it makes sense to incorporate another machine that will use that tooling.....JRouche

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  6. #86
    Gold Member BobWarfield's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    2502
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I agree JRouche, your decision makes sense. As I have mentioned, I bought mine because I wanted to build a new spindle to run at higher speeds for aluminum. As a secondary, I am also interested at some point in setting up a toolchanger, which is easier with the 30 taper than an R8. With that said, if IH had offered both and R8 and the 30 taper for $65, I would've been in a real quandry about which to buy!

    I have a set of R8 collets, but have never used them. I've no inherent bias against them, I just like keeping a set of mill holders tooled up and ready to go. With my power drawbar, I just grab what I need and pop 'em in. It's very fast and convenient. If I do need to use a collet for something oddball, I have an ER32 system that I like really well. I use it like a mill holder that's all set up, so I have the tooling for a particular job ready to go.

    Given your remarks about drawbar tightness, I am wondering whether my power drawbar hasn't helped that out quite a bit.

    I never unload tooling from the holders until I need to reuse the holder, so my most commonly used cutters tend to already be sitting in a cutter somewhere. If I had 5 or 6 more holders, that would be even more the case.

    I also have to agree with the sentiment that I couldn't make a taper for $65, so why not.

    Best,

    BW



  7. #87
    Registered
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    68
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    One question about the ISO spindle. When the tool holder being installed, will its flange actually touch the lower end of the spindle, like the TTC system? If yes, does it require very precise size between the taper and the flange? If not, how can it maintain the Z repeatability?



  8. #88
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Maine
    Posts
    66
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    The flange does not touch the bottom of the spindle.

    It maintains the repeatability because of the inability to pull tool through the spindle. Hence a tapered fit.

    Keep in mind that the ISO 30 taper has been around for a long time, and is IMO more repeatable then the R8.

    Thanks
    Aaron Moss



  9. #89
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Suffolk, UK
    Posts
    2512
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I think you have to remember that the ISO30 is not a collet as in the TTS but a solid lump of steel, so as long as the pullling force is reasonably consistent it will pull in the same distance each time. Personally I doubt you would see any practical difference in Z repeatablility between solid ISO30 and R8 tool holders, they both have the same taper angle, although the ISO30 does have a larger contact surface. If you need state of the art Z repeatablility then probably neither would be suitable.

    Regards
    Phil

    Quote Originally Posted by david_geng View Post
    One question about the ISO spindle. When the tool holder being installed, will its flange actually touch the lower end of the spindle, like the TTC system? If yes, does it require very precise size between the taper and the flange? If not, how can it maintain the Z repeatability?




  10. #90
    Registered
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    59
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default ISO 30 Spindle

    Does anybody know where i can purchase one of these ISO30 spindles or would anybody be willing to part with one. I called IH and they said they are going to be getting more in but it is going to take about 6 months and i kind of don't want to wait that long. My only other option is an R8 to 30 taper Quick Change adapter but i would rather have the spindle as with the other way i lose z axis



  11. #91
    Registered
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    154
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Just received the Grizzly 2007 catalouge. They show the NT 30 tool holders, 3/8 to 1 1/2 " for $27.95 to $34.95. They also have a NT30 collet chuck complete with 8 collets, 1/8" to 1" for $198.00. You can find them at
    www.grizzly.com
    Steve



  12. #92
    Registered
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    19
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Would any member please post some pictures of the ISO 30 Spindle?

    Thanks.

    Tan Ta



  13. #93
    Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    390
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by EverythingCNC View Post
    Would any member please post some pictures of the ISO 30 Spindle?
    Absolutely. I ended up selling mine to someone who was actually going to make immediate use of it. Mine would probably still be sitting on the shelf otherwise. I hope he eventually posts some pictures of his installation work.











  14. #94
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    67
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Hey,

    I'm in the process of changing out my spindle right now and its actually gone pretty well. Haven't had any surprises, I just followed what was done in this thread, http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26850 , and I already have the spindle sleeve out. But now I'm a little stuck. I need to remove the spindle from the sleeve and install the new spindle into the sleeve and I have a few questions.

    What do I use to loosen the nut (shown below) from the spindle?
    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Could I use a torx socket for the spindle? I have a torque wrench and I guess I can grip it from the top? What would I use for the nut itself, it has 4 ridges on its side? Also, does anyone have sizes in case I need to order stuff and is there a certain amount of torque I should apply when tightening this back down?

    I already removed my oil seals at the top of the spindles for replacement but I'm wondering if there is anything between the spindle and spindle sleeve that I might have to replace. It don't think there would be an oil seal there but I saw a diagram for a similar machine that said there was a retaining (not sure what this is yet) there. Anyone know any issues I should be concerned about? Also, how does the spindle stay lubricated when inside the spindle sleeve, does it need to?

    Thanks.



  15. #95
    Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    1015
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    i used a spanner wrench to get mine apart. however, on setting the torque i'm as lost as you are. i snug the bearings down until the lower spindle bearing is warm to the touch.



  16. #96
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    67
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Runner4404spd View Post
    i used a spanner wrench to get mine apart. however, on setting the torque i'm as lost as you are. i snug the bearings down until the lower spindle bearing is warm to the touch.
    Thanks on the spanner wrench for the nut! What about the spindle, did you use a torx socket and torque wrench? Any idea how to get in touch with Aaron, not sure if Gene has even done this?

    I guess I could use the torque wrench when I take it off but I'll be loosening as I try the different settings. That thing is definitely on there tight.



  17. #97
    Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    usa
    Posts
    113
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    What if you act as if your going to tighten it and start off with a low torque setting and keep adjusting the torque until it close to making the nut turn tighter.....that will give you the tightening torque close enough to re install it at that same setting
    Just my 2 cents worth
    jim



  18. #98
    Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    US
    Posts
    67
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jfc11 View Post
    What if you act as if your going to tighten it and start off with a low torque setting and keep adjusting the torque until it close to making the nut turn tighter.....that will give you the tightening torque close enough to re install it at that same setting
    Just my 2 cents worth
    jim
    Doh, lol. That's a good idea but I didn't find any sockets I could use with my torque wrench. And my torque wrench isn't one of those pass-thru gear wrench you use to put the spindle all the way thru, if they even make a torque wrench like that.



  19. #99
    Registered
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    15
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    I know this thread is abit old. But does anyone have a CAD file or at least dimentions of the spindle bought from industrialhobbies.com?

    Any other source to buy a iso30 spindle from?

    /fredrik



  20. #100
    Registered
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    90
    Downloads
    0
    Uploads
    0

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sweFredrik View Post
    I know this thread is abit old. But does anyone have a CAD file or at least dimentions of the spindle bought from industrialhobbies.com?

    Any other source to buy a iso30 spindle from?

    /fredrik
    IH does have spindle kits in stock. Just call Gene!

    Ken
    Kenneth A. Emmert
    SMW Precision LLC
    Spokane, WA
    866-533-9016 Toll Free


Page 5 of 6 FirstFirst ... 23456 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


About CNCzone.com

    We are the largest and most active discussion forum for manufacturing industry. The site is 100% free to join and use, so join today!

Follow us on


Our Brands

ISO 30 Spindle

ISO 30 Spindle