camworks - is it worth ?


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    Default camworks - is it worth ?

    Hi all ,

    Does anybody has a couple years experience on camworks? , I m really interesting on automation in camworks - how does it work ? Another thing is technical support for UK area - how is ? Thanks

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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    in the meantime check out autodesk fusion 360
    since that free under 100 K annual income, I think you can not loose with..

    im guessing you are a smaller shop with a couple of person..



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    Default

    Do you use automation ?



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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    in the meaning placing parts with robotic arms, no I don't
    making production continuous with loading-unloading parts.. I think that indeed for larger shops..

    and of course for larger series..

    for that task possible you need a lot help... im concerning about between design and producing..



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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    automation - I mean programming in camworks using automation like most of things software doing itself or most of toolpaths are done cause software did it . When you open camworks website you can see that advert contain automation is well . That's why I ask about it



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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    im really confused..
    after I choose a toolpath method, any camprogram calculate automatically toolpaths..

    I set parameters and it calculates..

    tooldatabase contains virtually everything..

    little hard to imagine what could be automatized behind this..

    programs are void holes in surface within roughing and even within finishing
    then hole toolpathed in a separated task with other tool

    well.. you better to asking them, because it looks like in solidworks you have to prepare the model, associating attributes or call names to surfaces..

    then camworks ""recognize"" the geometry and pending of the machining center set up a possible way to machining the part..
    it is important that pending of machining center because what a 5 axis can perform, that different than a 3 axis..

    theres a video might says more to you..





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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    Automation in CAMWorks will consume endless hours of your time. The tech Data Base is full of useless tools and has no 3 flute and very few five flute end mills. Drill the same so from the start you have to populate your own worthwhile tool library. Then you have to get a strategy for differing types of tool paths and link your tools and tools paths together and imagine doing this for a ton of things. Then once you are done updates will corrupt the data base. Updates from Microsoft can and will corrupt your data base. Scrap another month of your time for each redo. No I am not kidding. If the promise of the website and demo was true CAMWorks would be a world beater but as it is the implementation of the dream is so complicated and fraught with failure that few rarely finish it. Most buyers in my experience leave within a few years because it is just to time consuming to make it work. Volumill is supposed to be this wonderful super efficient machine strategy but by the time you figure out how to pick features to machine somewhat complicated 3D parts you can be many HOURS into just one cam plan. CAMWorks is expensive to buy and yearly in maintenance. I was a CAMWorks for Solid Edge user and the program was so bad that the user forum for the Solid Edge side has had one post in the last 16 months. The few that were there have moved on and the ones on the SolidWorks side complain about the tech data base and post issues all the time. Some of the problems go back all the way to ProCam and have yet to be reliably taken care of. Geometric knows there are problems and they never darken the door of the forums to help. They are quick to say though that problems are the fault of the user for improper modeling procedure but then never tell anyone what proper procedures are. If you want to suffer intense aggravation and wasting of time and money I highly recommend CAMWorks.

    Proof is in the pudding. Ask a VAR to demonstrate it. On your PC not theirs. Then ask him to set up a tool library and tech data base relevant to the part you provide which he has not seen before. I mean all the steps to make it work just like the slick glossy demo parts they have been using for years do. Then post cod to your machine and cut. Make them do it all and watch the dude start trembling over what you want. If you do elect to abuse yourself make sure you get things like working to your satisfaction posts for all your machines as a condition before you pay them. They will make promises and not abide by them if they can and will charge you later for those same things. I know because it happened to me. I would recommend HSM but they are subscription only now.

    None of these automated CAM programs work easily out of the box. All of them are very labor intensive. I figure that with HSM I could create years worth of cam plans in the same time CW would take to just get the TDB going. I don't know what your exact needs are but safe to say that CW with bells and whistles is every bit as expensive as something like NX Cam or Mastercam and others and ever so much more troublesome to use. I can't say enough about how disgusted I was when I dumped CW4SE. You go there don't complain later as you have been warned.



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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    I think you're talking about Automatic Feature Recognition (AFR)?
    If so, sorry to say, it doesn't really work unless you make a lot of simple boxes with holes.
    I like CAMWorks (7+ years so far) but they all have pluses and minuses. What we like most about CAMWorks is that it works within SolidWorks. The files are the same. And it makes our parts (medical instruments with few square features).

    You use what the company provides. Period. They will almost all make parts depending on complexity. I believe the free versions are only 2.5 axis?

    Don't listen to the mouth foamers. The ones who swear the CAM they use is the best or far better than yours. Just plain silly.

    That said, I like lapuser's idea to make the sales guy make your part as you watch. We did that, and the sales guy did it, although without using AFR.



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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    I have been using CAMworks for 12 years. Those trashing it really don't understand it and I find that rather comical. It's like SolidWorks in that it does a million different things. But as we all know, we only use a few of those things over and over again. CAMworks is that way too. I have 25-35 different strategies that I use all the time. When I chose a particular feature, EVERYTHING in it is populated exactly how I want it. My tools, my speeds and feeds, step overs, cut depth etc.... 9 times out of 10 I can use it exactly as is. Sometimes I need to tweak it. But overall, this software saves me a ton of time. But I think even better than the time saving is the lack of crashing. The saved strategies work and have been proofed out over and over again. So there are almost no mistakes filling in all of the info. It's all there, and how I want it to be, every single time.

    I have yet to lose my data as stated above. And if I did, I could start from scratch and have all back up to speed with out much fuss. You just do what YOU need to do in CAMworks. Not the million things CAMworks does, If you have the money I would recommend it. I have used mastercam, ezcam, bobcad and a little but of gibbscam. I like camwoks the most. You do need to learn how to manipulate and change the database. But once you grasp this effectively, changes are quick and very powerful. I use my CAMworks in SolidWorks.



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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    EZFAB can you explain how to get camworks to cut smoothly with the Z level. I had my camworks dealer tell me it was my machine yet I recently had a shop owner with a 1yr old Haas that they bought new see my machine run and was pissed my 1986 hurco machine cuts as well as his new Haas. He was told its in the setting. We have the same dealer and the dealer cant seem to help him with the settings in camworks to make it run smooth and accurate



  11. #11

    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    Hi JThomsen, I also have a 1986 Hurco and I have not found a post processor that works well, could you provide me with a copy of the post processor that you use? Thank you



  12. #12

    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    Hi JThomsen, I also have a 1986 Hurco and I have not found a post processor that works well in CamWorks, could you provide me with a copy of the post processor that you use? Thank you



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    Default Re: camworks - is it worth ?

    I purchased Camworks with Sw in it with. It was the worst investment I've ever done over the years. Besides I paid astronomical price, they didn't even honored the maintenance cost in the contract. The only thing was great about it is the post processors. They made them 100% to my request. Let me provide a list based on my experience and I machine and program for 20+ years:
    -The feature recognition works OK with native SW files, however, different customers, different ways of designs and their not helpful when holes are not created as it states on pdf. If the model and the holes defined properly then it will recognize for most part everything, however leads to the problem that there is sometimes just way too much and takes time to delete them even though you can specify what to look for. If you work with other CAD format then you need to specify yourself which hole is what. Now, that is not productive. You can work using manual selection but then it is no different from any other CAM. So, bottom line, feature recognition works only for those who makes very similar parts and perhaps, they do their own design. My work is very different and the idea was to cut time on programing with similar parts. Sounds great but didn't worked out in practice. I strongly suggest to have them prove on your own work if this package is really worth it. I did too but wasn't enough and when I tried to use it I ran into problems after problem without solution.
    -The 3-axis part is very weak for the price tag and it is very hard to make it work. If you happy with any kind of 3D tool paths and bad quality surfacing then you are good. The feature recognition is very limited for 3D work and some things are not even possible to do. To be fair, I have high standards when it comes to 3D programs. I'd like to see I, J and K definitions whenever it is possible. I don't use router or Haas so points are no good to me, or at least minimal as possible.
    -The 2-axis part is ok but not great for the price tag. It takes time to figure out what controls what and it is geared towards the percentage minded rather than actual numbers for depths, overlap, etc. In my opinion the user interface should be little more user friendly and equally supported for both type of programing. I found there are lots of limitation for entry/exits the way I like to see. Maybe it is improved by know. I machine for long time and I'm not impressed with nonsense. I can understand for the user who never machined ever probably works fine for them but I hate to see plunge into uncut stock and I hate ramps....because I pay for my tooling
    -The tool library loads awfully slow and I was told because I have way to many tools. Now, go figure. You want to use feature recognition where you need quite few tools to have handy but when you have a library it load very slow. The other option is to import them as you go and when you need them. So much for productivity.
    -The tech base is an excellent idea if you work with very similar parts, otherwise not helping much and it is quite complicated to see the picture when so many thing can control the same. Again, work probably for those who makes similar parts in same way.
    -I have the version with oem SW in it. This was another factor why I bought this software because all my other customers use it. For my great disappointment SW or this configuration of it, has a really bad graphics and SW doesn't have the capacity to import files into your own template where you have the accuracy and the image quality set up to your satisfaction. SW doesn't come near to Rhino CAD image quality....obviously I use Quadro card.
    Bottom line, I personally don't think Camworks worth the money and the time to learn, customize and maybe one day make money with it. Probably a standalone SW is lot better choice if no 3D work is required. It does have the Camworks 2.5 axis in it and would work ok for fast prototyping. Either software package is not geared towards the old school machinist who like to be in charge for tool paths. It is ok for the wannabes without too much experience.
    Just for a record, I'm a long time user of Rhino CAD/CAM package. I'm not saying it is the best, far away from it, but it is way easier to learn, Rhino CAD by itself is a excellent CAD where you can create quality models. Yes, it is not geared towards mechanical engineering but for me producing parts is an excellent choice. Will import native SW and doesn't cost much to have it. RCam is ok too and it gives me flexibility what no other CAM can provide.
    Bottom line, you need to decide what is most important factors for the work you do.



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camworks - is it worth ?

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