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  1. #21
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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nbman View Post
    Thanks for this.It would certainly be a nice way to at least get the machine up and running for now, assuming the existing ones work.

    What about limits/home switches. I assume the machine has them..can they be reused and connected to new board?
    I never actually tested the limit/home switches on mine but the the switches for Z are just micro-switches so they should easily work with about anything. The X and Y axis have a combined home / limit box that I am assuming are just switches and nothing more active. It should be easy to test by checking continuity across the wires when triggering. In your picture the small grey box to the front left of the saddle is the X axis limit switch and I believe it has a separate home switch as well (my R2E3 which is a little later model had separate triggers for home and limit). I spent a lot of time researching a retrofit for my R2E3 but ended up selling it before I started as the head was an absolute mess (left outside, everything rusted badly) and I came across a different CNC mill that can be used manually until I retrofit it...



  2. #22
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nbman View Post
    Yes, I see it now.

    The Acorn is Open Loop, and the Allin1 is Closed Loop...Pro/Cons? As a hobbyist, is it something I should even be thinking about?
    Closed loop is better and no reason that a hobbiest shouldn't be using it. There are a few low cost, hobby class options.

    There are a couple of ways to do this, without getting in to the really high end systems with dual loops and all digital controls. You can close the loop at the drive, or at the controller. The Clearpath motors close the loop at the drive with no easy possibility of closing the loop at the controller. This also true of the hybrid stepper systems you find on EBay. The DMM Tech servos close the loop at the drive or allow closing the loop at the controller.

    The most economical method is to close the loop at the drive, that way you can pretty much have the accuracy of a higher end system with the simplicity of an open loop system. Any control system that supports step & direction open loop can operate steppers, Clearpath, or DMM Tech. Machine accuracy is totally dependant on the condition of the mechanical systems and the resolution of the motor encoder. Normally the motor encoder resolution far exceeds the possible mechanical resolution of the system.

    The next step up is to close the loop at the controller, this is really no more accurate than closing the loop at the drive when using the motor encoder or an encoder attached to the ball screw. Typically the drives are controlled by a +/- 10V analog signal from the controller, but it is possible to close the loop using step & direction. The controllers are more expensive, and the wiring is more complex. And you are still at the mercy of any inaccuracies in the mechanical system. You do have a bit more control over the system, but servo tuning is a bit more involved.

    To achieve the best performance you can put the encoder on the load (machine table) using a linear encoder and close the loop at the controller. For this you can use glass scales or (my prefered device) magnetic scales. Doing this takes much of the mechanical system out of the equation and feeds the actual table position back to the controller.

    Dynomotion and Mesa controllers are worth a look also.

    I hope this helps.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


  3. #23
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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Jim

    Thanks so much for taking the time to explain this. I really appreciate it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Closed loop is better and no reason that a hobbiest shouldn't be using it. There are a few low cost, hobby class options.

    There are a couple of ways to do this, without getting in to the really high end systems with dual loops and all digital controls. You can close the loop at the drive, or at the controller. The Clearpath motors close the loop at the drive with no easy possibility of closing the loop at the controller. This also true of the hybrid stepper systems you find on EBay. The DMM Tech servos close the loop at the drive or allow closing the loop at the controller.

    The most economical method is to close the loop at the drive, that way you can pretty much have the accuracy of a higher end system with the simplicity of an open loop system. Any control system that supports step & direction open loop can operate steppers, Clearpath, or DMM Tech. Machine accuracy is totally dependant on the condition of the mechanical systems and the resolution of the motor encoder. Normally the motor encoder resolution far exceeds the possible mechanical resolution of the system.
    So, Acorn is shown as open loop, but by using Clearpath or DMM Tech drives, I could still have a closed loop system?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    The next step up is to close the loop at the controller, this is really no more accurate than closing the loop at the drive when using the motor encoder or an encoder attached to the ball screw. Typically the drives are controlled by a +/- 10V analog signal from the controller, but it is possible to close the loop using step & direction. The controllers are more expensive, and the wiring is more complex. And you are still at the mercy of any inaccuracies in the mechanical system. You do have a bit more control over the system, but servo tuning is a bit more involved.
    Again, Acorn is listed as open loop,so this option not possible with Acorn?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    To achieve the best performance you can put the encoder on the load (machine table) using a linear encoder and close the loop at the controller. For this you can use glass scales or (my prefered device) magnetic scales. Doing this takes much of the mechanical system out of the equation and feeds the actual table position back to the controller.
    This is where I get a bit confused. Motor Encoders, Spindle encoders, linear encoders...Going to do more research on these items, but can you use motor encoder inputs AND linear encoder inputs together in a system?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Dawson View Post
    Dynomotion and Mesa controllers are worth a look also.

    I hope this helps.
    I am looking at another machine today that the owner has started a retrofit on using Dynomotion Kflop/Kanalog. Its a Lagunmatic 110 machine. He never completed the retrofit, although everything is there to finish it.

    Thanks again for the help.



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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nbman View Post
    Thanks for the reply. A friend of mine actually told me to watch out for the Erickson, just like you said, tooling is hard to come by.

    Can you identify the control and spindle by the pictures? The machine is several hours away from me so I'm just trying to see if it's even worth the trip.

    Based on some other threads I've been reading, I've been looking at Centroid. Looks like they offer some fairly complete packages, but seem quite pricey.

    I'm just a hobbyist, so super fast speeds are not a huge concern to me.
    The 30 Taper Erickson is the best one to have for tooling, the tooling is still available even new and there are standard 30 Taper tooling that you can modify and use

    NMTB 30 Tool Holders are almost the same, just the diameter at the clamp end need a little turned off the diameter the rest is the tool holder is the same

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nbman View Post
    LOL,

    Will the Clearpath motors work with Centroid Allin1DC?
    Don't get confused, you don't have to spend lots of money to close the loop in the control you would not see anything different when using DMM servo system the loop is closed in the servo drive

    Don't go there, the DMM is your best price and performance the centroid Acorn system for your control is all you need, you don't want Centroids full pro package way to much money

    Mactec54


  6. #26
    Community Moderator Jim Dawson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nbman View Post
    Jim
    Thanks so much for taking the time to explain this. I really appreciate it.
    So, Acorn is shown as open loop, but by using Clearpath or DMM Tech drives, I could still have a closed loop system?
    Yes, subject to the limitations I described above.

    Again, Acorn is listed as open loop,so this option not possible with Acorn?
    Acorn has no provision to allow encoder feedback to the controller.

    This is where I get a bit confused. Motor Encoders, Spindle encoders, linear encoders...Going to do more research on these items, but can you use motor encoder inputs AND linear encoder inputs together in a system?
    Yes, but it requires a controller that has dual encoder inputs for each axis to take advantage of the a dual encoder system. The other possibility is to close the loop at the drive and then connect the the load encoder to the controller as a cross check for the position. This is not quite a true dual loop system but close, more like on-the-fly error correction. This can also work with stepper systems but requires the proper controller to do it.

    There are a number of different feedback devices. Most encoders, linear or rotary, output a 2 or 4 channel quadrature signal. This is compatible with all common controllers.

    I am looking at another machine today that the owner has started a retrofit on using Dynomotion Kflop/Kanalog. Its a Lagunmatic 110 machine. He never completed the retrofit, although everything is there to finish it.

    Thanks again for the help.
    My pleasure. If you buy the Lagunmatic 110, then we can get into the specifics of how to best configure the system. The good news is that Dynomotion is very well supported by Tom Kerekes (TomKerekes) on CNCZone. Dynomotion also has their own CNC software.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    Don't get confused, you don't have to spend lots of money to close the loop in the control you would not see anything different when using DMM servo system the loop is closed in the servo drive

    Don't go there, the DMM is your best price and performance the centroid Acorn system for your control is all you need, you don't want Centroids full pro package way to much money
    Thanks for this. That's what initially scared me...the full "turn key" system prices. I'm since learning that it's well within my budget i think.



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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nbman View Post
    Thanks for this. That's what initially scared me...the full "turn key" system prices. I'm since learning that it's well within my budget i think.
    One thing with the Bridgeport or any machine you buy, if it looks abused don't buy it, there are lots of Boss Machines out there the iron has to be in good shape look at the ways Y axes mostly and look at the scraping on the knee if it is very shiny and the scraping is low it has a lot of wear on the knee, this would not be a good buy

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by mactec54 View Post
    One thing with the Bridgeport or any machine you buy, if it looks abused don't buy it, there are lots of Boss Machines out there the iron has to be in good shape look at the ways Y axes mostly and look at the scraping on the knee if it is very shiny and the scraping is low it has a lot of wear on the knee, this would not be a good buy
    Yes, I'm starting to find that out. This particular machine (the one in the photo in 1st post), looks quite well used. It's a few hours from me so I have not gone to see it in person yet. Although it seems reasonably priced at $500, I'm really wondering if it's a case of "you get what you pay for". I'm wondering if I were to spend a bit more on a machine in better condition would I be further ahead in the long run. I'm on a budget, but I think still a reasonable budget to get setup with a decent hobby machine.

    Problem is in my part of the Country, options are fairly limited.



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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    As an option to consider, I could buy a manual machine in decent condition that would allow me to operate it manually at first, and gather up parts to convert it, or am I better off to keep looking for an older CNC that I can retrofit?



  11. #31
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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nbman View Post
    As an option to consider, I could buy a manual machine in decent condition that would allow me to operate it manually at first, and gather up parts to convert it, or am I better off to keep looking for an older CNC that I can retrofit?
    That is something to concider, but, in the end, the cost both in time and materials will be higher than starting with a mechanically good CNC machine that needs controls. There is a lot of hardware that is needed for a CNC that doesn't exist on a non-CNC machine. The front end purchase cost is about the same.

    Jim Dawson
    Sandy, Oregon, USA


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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    Quote Originally Posted by nbman View Post
    Yes, I'm starting to find that out. This particular machine (the one in the photo in 1st post), looks quite well used. It's a few hours from me so I have not gone to see it in person yet. Although it seems reasonably priced at $500, I'm really wondering if it's a case of "you get what you pay for". I'm wondering if I were to spend a bit more on a machine in better condition would I be further ahead in the long run. I'm on a budget, but I think still a reasonable budget to get setup with a decent hobby machine.

    Problem is in my part of the Country, options are fairly limited.
    Yes you can't get much for $500

    That is a good option most people start with a manual machine, the only problem is most don't come with ballscrews, which is a must when you want to do a retro, one manual mill I know that has some models with Ballscrews is Acra they also have hardened and ground ways on all there machines

    Mactec54


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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    I have a Boss 5 that I retrofitted with Keling KL-11080 stepper drives, using the original steppers, and Msch3 control with a Smooth Stepper motion control board, also using a 5axis CNC breakout board. It took me a while to do it myself as I’m not an electrician/electronics wiz.i got some help from the people here and a lot of YouTube and reading on the inter web. It works fine,but I run the Spindle off a 3 phase rotary phase converter and the control off 110 outlet power. So two separate circuits to the machine. I need to figure out how to run everything from one source coming into the machine, but I’ve been using the way it is and it works fine.

    I also have the Kwikswitch 200 spindle and have about 25 holders that came with the machine. Although I did just replace the Kwikswitch nut and you can buy it or parts for it new.My machine mechanically is in good shape, so it was worth it to me to retrofit it. These machines are pretty tough.



  14. #34
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    Default Re: Bridgeport Series 1 CNC Questions

    What I'm seeing around here is that manual machines appear to generally be in much better condition than CNC machines, but like I said, my options are fairly limited due to my location.


    Here are the options within a days drive of my location, price from lowest to highest:

    1. The Series 1 Bridgeport that I started this thread about-$500
    2. Easimill 3 - $500, bad controls, as is - looks decent in the pics
    3. Bridgeport 2 CNC - $2000, missing parameters
    4. Lagunmatic 110 - $3000, retrofit started but not complete -I looked at this machine yesterday, fair condition.
    5. Delta CNC - $3600, working condition
    6. Bridgeport Interact MK2 - $4500, working condition
    7. YCM-3D - $4850, working condition
    8. Forward Precision- $5000, working condition

    None of these come with any tooling to speak of, maybe the odd bit.

    There's also a Fadal and another Bridgeport CNC I've sent messages for the price of these, waiting to hear back...

    All these except one is minimum 10-12 hours away from me..

    Last edited by nbman; 02-24-2019 at 07:09 AM.


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