Milling Wrench Flats

[bobcad guy]

i believe that the problem is probably your assumption that the collet block holds things properly, just the simple mechanics of it cause issues. the threaded collar on the end may noy not, and probably isnt perpindicular to the threads, and can easily pull a little more to one side on one collet block, and a little to the other side on the second collet block, and thats just one quick thing, i can think of other reasons. the purpose of that block is to collapse a collet to hold a diameter, no other garauntees are given, we just assume it will hold it straight, paralell, or perpendicular. like most people think a 1inch drop indicator is reliable to measure things, when the fact is, an indicator is garaunteed only to repeat measurements, when set at the same position twice or more. it is a " comparative tool" not a measuring device. i argued with the salesman that told me that for a minute, then realized i was wrong.

[jrmach]

Here is the 2 tools I would suggest you need.There are other solutions,but cost more.You can buy these at Enco for probably $300 for both.That is for cheap China junk.But it will work just fine.You gonna machine,gotta have ,,period.Collet blocks have their place in machining,,but not for what your doing.That said I don't use them ever.How much is your time worth?You got to tool up.

[jrmach]

Here is a pic of the Planar Shaper Gauge I was referring to.It is an adjustable parrell.You put that under long parts at mid point between indexer and tail stock center,Adjust it up till it hits part.It will keep part from deflecting down and also reduces chatter.This tool has many uses.It is a must have tool for manual machines and CNC.

[ranchak]

Thanks for all of the help and suggestions. I'm going to get a collet indexer and see if I have any better luck.

[jrmach]

That's great.A must on the Manual Mill.When part hangs out that far you going to need solution to keep part from deflecting and chattering also.

[ranchak]

On the longer parts I used to use two blocks to support the opposite end. One thing that I liked about the collet block was when doing flats on both ends you didn't have to move the x-axis to machine the other end.

[ranchak]

UPDATE: I purchased a used Yuasa 5C Collet Indexer as many of you guys suggested, it works GREAT! All of my flats are now a consistent depth. One thing I need to figure out now is I have some rods that are 15 - 18" long, they needs flats at each end. I was thinking of getting a Phase II adjustable tail stock to support the far end. I guess my question is will this tail stock support the rods well enough to machine the flat on that end? Any better suggestions?

[jrmach]

Can you not just push the rod thru the collet and let length hang out back?Or do you need to have flats "clocked" with each other?If you do,there is a solution to that,while still holding cutting end close to collet.Let us know the case here.
If not,yes you can use tailstock,,but then you have to set-up correctly.Which if not done correctly will throw off accuracy.But more rigidity and accuracy are insured if you can keep your cutting forces close as possible to collet.

[RCaffin]

Wouldn't this work better if you used the collet block at the end of the rod to control the rotation - which it can do nicely, and a V-block under the place to be milled to set the height? Yes, clamp down onto the V-block of course. The V-block does not need to be precision - anything with a V at the right height would do.

Cheers

[ranchak]

The wrench flats need to be "clocked" to each other.

[jrmach]

Shaper Planer Gauge would be the fastest and best way.You will be able to cut the 2nd flat with part held right up next to collet.That way rigidity,etc. will not be an issue.Get one,they are a very useful tool.A must have.I am at Shop today,when I get home,I upload some pics on how to set-up if you need.


This way would be fastest,BUT need to ask,,is there a tolerance call-out on the flats to each other ?The way I am explaining will get you within a Gnats Hair.Like barely measurable.If has to be dead on,will have to go different way.Use the tolerance to your advantage.Holding ridiculous tolerances just cause you time.

[ranchak]

I ordered the tail stock today, should be here tomorrow, will see how that works out.

[ranchak]

I got the tail stock today, exactly what I thought, cheap china stuff. I'm not too keen on using this, I guess I'm back to the drawing board on these. I should have bought a second collet indexer.

[jrmach]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,,,,,,,,,,,,,or a Planar Shaper Gauge

[jrmach]

OK,FWIW,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,A Planar Shaper Gauge is a "Precision" tool.Think of it as a sliding parrell that you can lock in place at any height along its range.
When I said it is accurate to a Gnats hair,,,let me elaborate.A human hair averages .003,so I figure a Gnatts Iis .0003 or less.Just for the heck of it I just checked mine with a Height Gauge with a .0001 indicator attached all done on a surface plate.Mine was Parrell to the surface plate less than a Gnats hair .It had a .0001 movent over its 2.500 long top face.
I uploaded 2 pics.Notice after milling 2nd flat on first end,,I "Set" the Gauge.Then I take part out,flip it around and set milled flats on gauge,push down,close collett.It is for all practical purposes "Clocked" precisely.The best thing is you are milling close to the collett so you have maximum rigidity of piece to be cut.You could also set-up a stop if you wanted,and you will not have to move "X" direction.

http://postimg.org/image/gpph016jh/

View image: 010

[jrmach]

To use tail stock center you would first center drill in lathe.Put part in up close to collett and clamp.Adjust height of tail stock close by eye.Next move part out a ways and clamp in collett.Move tail stock center to end of part,clamp to table,,adjust center till it is tight against center drilled hole.Put indicator in quill and move indicator back and forth,front to rear,,,while adjusting height of tail stock till you get it level.
Takes longer to set-up than Planar Shaper Gauge,and your cut will be more prone to chatter,etc...with the tail stock center method.Plus you have to travel the table back and forth for each part.That will get old if your doing a bunch.

[ranchak]

Thanks for the pics JR. I should have bought the planar gage, but I have things worked out thanks to your pics. I am using the collet closer on the end because the collet indexer is set up to run another job and these rods stick out too far. Also I have different lengths of these rods so I decided to use the collet closer to hold the end of the rod, instead of moving the stop and collet closer. I did buy a set of adjustable parallels on eBay, but I will get also get a planar gage, I can see where it would be handy to have.

[jrmach]

Planar Shaper Gauge is much better than any adjustable parrells,,even though it works like one.Lots of uses,I use alot.

[ranchak]

I'll pick one up the next time I order, I can see where it would be handy to have around.

[Kevin Taylor]

Are you cutting the flats with the end or the side of the mill? If you are using the end is the head tramed?