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Thread: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

  1. #21
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    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    anything is possible

    but its alot of work. for mach3 (or linuxcnc) to talk to the drives and air system and other parts, you need to buy additional cards. they can run from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars.

    the 321 on youtube (battwell's) is probably the best example, and hes here, so he can offer some insights into where the problems are.



  2. #22
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    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    anything is possible

    but its alot of work. for mach3 (or linuxcnc) to talk to the drives and air system and other parts, you need to buy additional cards. they can run from a few hundred to a few thousand dollars.

    the 321 on youtube (battwell's) is probably the best example, and hes here, so he can offer some insights into where the problems are.
    Not true.

    I got a Rover 346 with the intention on changing out the control. When I started three weeks later I cut my first job. Cost is about 1000.00 for motion control and IO boards. Machine is running LinuxCNC and it is working fine. I am working on the ATC now. So it is not really a huge deal to change out the controller.

    The easiest part of the conversion was talking to the servo drives +-10V and the inverter for the spindles 0-10V.

    Piece of Cake!!!!



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    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    This is an old thread but in the end I purchased a Thermwood C53 and its great. It still runs no problem with modern cam programs. The only bug bear is the lack of file transfer other than a 1.4mb floppy disk. I sometime break the file into multiple programs for more complicated parts but a big machine like this is usually just profiling and it works great with small files. Back in 2012 there were still plenty of options if you did want to convert to mach 3 but today there are far more and I would not be scared of jumping in and converting. I think these big old machines can be a good buy if you get one that hasn't been worked to death. Lots of options for hacking.



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    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    Hi all,
    I have just bought a Rover 322, running on what I assume is the original controls. It all works well and has spent most of its life doing kitchen benchtops, flatpack wardrobes, etc.

    I am interested in cutting more complex profiles, which brings to mind two possible limitations:
    1) I want to program the artwork on my desktop PC and then transfer to the machine (which at this stage would be using a non-FAT floppy disk)
    2) Possible memory limitations of the machine for complex programs?

    Apart from that it is a horrible old interface.

    So I am considering replacing the control. From this thread and others it seems like Mach 3 or LinuxCNC are options. However it would be really helpful if somebody could give me a basic overview of what is likely to be required.

    i.e.
    1) Obtain old PC, install Linux and LinuxCNC
    2) Purchase Mesa cards???
    3) ...?
    4) After that is it just a matter of configuring things or do I literally need to reprogram every axis and function?

    I am mainly after getting the router(s) going. The drilling functions would be a bonus but not critical.

    I am an electronic engineer by qualification and PLC programmer for employment but new to CNC. Some Linux experience but prefer not to be hacking kernels into submission for months on end.

    It is also not clear to me where the "memory limitations" lie? Is the control all from the onboard PC or is there another level of electronics (obviously beyond all the contactors and servos). The machine is mechanically in good condition, so will I ever be able to effectively make a modern machine of it, or will it still have limitations?

    Any and all advice is much appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Anton



  5. #25
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    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by olafnz View Post
    Hi all,
    I have just bought a Rover 322, running on what I assume is the original controls. It all works well and has spent most of its life doing kitchen benchtops, flatpack wardrobes, etc.

    I am interested in cutting more complex profiles, which brings to mind two possible limitations:
    1) I want to program the artwork on my desktop PC and then transfer to the machine (which at this stage would be using a non-FAT floppy disk)
    2) Possible memory limitations of the machine for complex programs?

    Apart from that it is a horrible old interface.

    So I am considering replacing the control. From this thread and others it seems like Mach 3 or LinuxCNC are options. However it would be really helpful if somebody could give me a basic overview of what is likely to be required.

    i.e.
    1) Obtain old PC, install Linux and LinuxCNC
    2) Purchase Mesa cards???
    3) ...?
    4) After that is it just a matter of configuring things or do I literally need to reprogram every axis and function?

    I am mainly after getting the router(s) going. The drilling functions would be a bonus but not critical.

    I am an electronic engineer by qualification and PLC programmer for employment but new to CNC. Some Linux experience but prefer not to be hacking kernels into submission for months on end.

    It is also not clear to me where the "memory limitations" lie? Is the control all from the onboard PC or is there another level of electronics (obviously beyond all the contactors and servos). The machine is mechanically in good condition, so will I ever be able to effectively make a modern machine of it, or will it still have limitations?

    Any and all advice is much appreciated.
    Thanks,
    Anton
    Hi olanfz,

    I only work with Linuxcnc so I cannot answer about any other control, so I will stick with LinuxCNC. You will have to make a decision on what you want to use.
    I can give you these tips on Biesse machines, as I have done a few. My latest one was a BS_346 and it is completed except the ATC which I am working on now. Dont have alot time to put on it but never the less...

    Biesse has a startup logic system which requires you to understand it completely soi you can tie into it with the controller. Ususally +-10V analog velocity control drives.
    Encoders ususally are quadtrature so it is easily adapteded to mesa boards. Other than that theret is a bunch of inputs and outputs. IT is not as daunting as it wouold seem. I did mine in about three weeks, so it is possible.
    IF you choose to go with LinuxCNC here is a list of mesa cards you would need:

    One thing that is almost a show-stopper is the electric plant manual.If you have this you are home free. If not then you have alot of work figuring out all the logic Bisees has put into these machines.


    Mesa Electronics US I have no affiliation with this company. They just do it right......

    5i25-7i77 to go kit,
    7i74 RS-422 distribution card
    7i70 48 input card
    2 X 7i71 48 output card
    7i84 32 in 16 out If you want a push button hardware control panel.
    5 volt power supply

    LinuxCNC runs great but can be a bear to configure if you have never done so.

    Shameless Plug

    There is a kit that is being worked on and will be sold for Biesse machines. These will include:
    Hard drive with linux installed and configured for your specific machine: Would need the Electric plant manual,
    A set of wiring diagrams that show you how to rewire and upgrade your machine. You will need to provide the Electric plant manual.
    Did I mention you need the electric plant manual?
    It will also include the required motion control cards along with the in/out cards required for your machine.
    A forum is being setup discussing Biesse machine and you get tech help in the forum.

    I dont think I am allowed to advertise the name of the forum here, PM me if you want and we can discuss.

    /Shameless Plug

    That is an option, not required but it takes the guess work out of it if you have never done it.

    All in all it is a fun project, and I hope you enjoy it what ever you decide.



  6. #26
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    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    Hi Bevins,
    Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the input - although I have software and electronics skills I am new to CNC and these machines, so really have no idea where to start.

    By "3 weeks" are you talking 120 hours, or just in your spare time?

    I will see if I can get the wiring diagrams.

    I will certainly contact you later down the track. At the moment the machine will be in storage for 2-3 months, then I will go from there. It's just good to know that these things are at least a possibility if the existing control gets too limiting.

    Is the forum you mention on this site or another one? I tried to setup a login on the linuxcnc forum and for some reason it has not emailed me yet. I assume it is still active.

    Thanks,
    Anton



  7. #27
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    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    Hello KPQ ...i have face the same problem as you ... tired about the button this is what i have do ... remove the button to realise under its fully dirty ... clean with alcool and replace ... and now work very well... i don't say this gonna work for you but just try anyway ...already not working so you cannot broke more !



  8. #28
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    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by olafnz View Post
    Hi Bevins,
    Thanks for your reply. I appreciate the input - although I have software and electronics skills I am new to CNC and these machines, so really have no idea where to start.

    By "3 weeks" are you talking 120 hours, or just in your spare time?

    I will see if I can get the wiring diagrams.

    I will certainly contact you later down the track. At the moment the machine will be in storage for 2-3 months, then I will go from there. It's just good to know that these things are at least a possibility if the existing control gets too limiting.

    Is the forum you mention on this site or another one? I tried to setup a login on the linuxcnc forum and for some reason it has not emailed me yet. I assume it is still active.

    Thanks,
    Anton
    olanfnz,

    3 weeks working 10-12 hours per day.
    The control if you have rt480 is useless these days. If you only want to do squares holes and circles it may do.
    But if you want to do major detailed 3d or signs, then it wont work cause the limiting factor is how many lines it can read into memory, and I think thats around 500. My cam I use to do anything more than a box is about 1000 lines and I have some programs that go to over 100,000 lines.
    There are the few few that can break down their gcode and feed it chunks, but to me thats a waste of time.


    The forum has not gone live yet.
    We are waiting to get some kits finished for a few different machines. re: rover 30, rover 346 etc....



  9. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by battwell View Post
    the acceleration is set lower because im running the machine off a generator!
    as its running at my house with no 3 phase.
    i have had the machine to 65m/ minute on x and y with same acceleration as original biesse cni control. however while this is fine for point to point machining when using the cv that mach3 offers it is way smoother for engraving and finer work if the acceleration is set a lot lower.(to be fair i never tuned the servos extremely tight as i dont like the oscilations this can cause.

    i am using the original dc analogue drives.
    i didnt go with kflop due to the huge number of i/o required which i couldnt get with kflop. (ive ordered a kflop for a new project as the backup and help on their forum is superb!)

    im just converting another 2 biesse machines using galil rios to give me distributed i/o around the machine
    Hi there. Im looking to do a similar conversion and reyain as many features as possible. My machine is a1996 biesse 321r with 5 slot tool changer. Im hoping to purchase a gallil unit very soon.am i right in saying i need a 4040. Xzand y on 3 and spindle on foutyh. Any help would be gratly appreciated or even somewhere with more information.



  10. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bevins View Post
    Hi olanfz,

    I only work with Linuxcnc so I cannot answer about any other control, so I will stick with LinuxCNC. You will have to make a decision on what you want to use.
    I can give you these tips on Biesse machines, as I have done a few. My latest one was a BS_346 and it is completed except the ATC which I am working on now. Dont have alot time to put on it but never the less...

    Biesse has a startup logic system which requires you to understand it completely soi you can tie into it with the controller. Ususally +-10V analog velocity control drives.
    Encoders ususally are quadtrature so it is easily adapteded to mesa boards. Other than that theret is a bunch of inputs and outputs. IT is not as daunting as it wouold seem. I did mine in about three weeks, so it is possible.
    IF you choose to go with LinuxCNC here is a list of mesa cards you would need:

    One thing that is almost a show-stopper is the electric plant manual.If you have this you are home free. If not then you have alot of work figuring out all the logic Bisees has put into these machines.


    Mesa Electronics US I have no affiliation with this company. They just do it right......

    5i25-7i77 to go kit,
    7i74 RS-422 distribution card
    7i70 48 input card
    2 X 7i71 48 output card
    7i84 32 in 16 out If you want a push button hardware control panel.
    5 volt power supply

    LinuxCNC runs great but can be a bear to configure if you have never done so.

    Shameless Plug

    There is a kit that is being worked on and will be sold for Biesse machines. These will include:
    Hard drive with linux installed and configured for your specific machine: Would need the Electric plant manual,
    A set of wiring diagrams that show you how to rewire and upgrade your machine. You will need to provide the Electric plant manual.
    Did I mention you need the electric plant manual?
    It will also include the required motion control cards along with the in/out cards required for your machine.
    A forum is being setup discussing Biesse machine and you get tech help in the forum.

    I dont think I am allowed to advertise the name of the forum here, PM me if you want and we can discuss.

    /Shameless Plug

    That is an option, not required but it takes the guess work out of it if you have never done it.

    All in all it is a fun project, and I hope you enjoy it what ever you decide.
    Could you send me more details. Christopher@autobodysolutions.ie
    Cheers



  11. #31

    Default Re: biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

    Quote Originally Posted by bevins View Post
    Hi olanfz,

    I only work with Linuxcnc so I cannot answer about any other control, so I will stick with LinuxCNC. You will have to make a decision on what you want to use.
    I can give you these tips on Biesse machines, as I have done a few. My latest one was a BS_346 and it is completed except the ATC which I am working on now. Dont have alot time to put on it but never the less...

    Biesse has a startup logic system which requires you to understand it completely soi you can tie into it with the controller. Ususally +-10V analog velocity control drives.
    Encoders ususally are quadtrature so it is easily adapteded to mesa boards. Other than that theret is a bunch of inputs and outputs. IT is not as daunting as it wouold seem. I did mine in about three weeks, so it is possible.
    IF you choose to go with LinuxCNC here is a list of mesa cards you would need:

    One thing that is almost a show-stopper is the electric plant manual.If you have this you are home free. If not then you have alot of work figuring out all the logic Bisees has put into these machines.


    Mesa Electronics US I have no affiliation with this company. They just do it right......

    5i25-7i77 to go kit,
    7i74 RS-422 distribution card
    7i70 48 input card
    2 X 7i71 48 output card
    7i84 32 in 16 out If you want a push button hardware control panel.
    5 volt power supply

    LinuxCNC runs great but can be a bear to configure if you have never done so.

    Shameless Plug

    There is a kit that is being worked on and will be sold for Biesse machines. These will include:
    Hard drive with linux installed and configured for your specific machine: Would need the Electric plant manual,
    A set of wiring diagrams that show you how to rewire and upgrade your machine. You will need to provide the Electric plant manual.
    Did I mention you need the electric plant manual?
    It will also include the required motion control cards along with the in/out cards required for your machine.
    A forum is being setup discussing Biesse machine and you get tech help in the forum.

    I dont think I am allowed to advertise the name of the forum here, PM me if you want and we can discuss.

    /Shameless Plug

    That is an option, not required but it takes the guess work out of it if you have never done it.

    All in all it is a fun project, and I hope you enjoy it what ever you decide.
    Hi! Same problem here... although it's a quite old thread, can you please provide me any more information about upgrading our 1998 XNC Rover 321r to LinuxCNC? It's without ATC and I do have the powerplant manual (I've already scanned it...).

    Thanks a lot!



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biesse rover - mach 3 conversion

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