Reply with QuoteHere ya go, the new version of the tool holders.
Hoss
i need a lathe love those tool holder you made hoss, i dont remember whats the size of the shank
The opinions expressed in this post are my own. -Les opinions exprimé dans ce messages sont les mienne
Here ya go, the new version of the tool holders.
Hoss
Hi,Originally Posted by hoss2006
Do these tool holders need to be hardened?
John
Tormachs are at the flange that mates with the spindle but I don't plan on hardening mine, could warp the flange requiring grinding to true it back up(or use ceramic inserts on the lathe)
I use O-1 drill rod steel so they are pretty tough on their own.(could be hardened later)
Cold rolled steel would be probably be too soft to hold up well.
Still it will be a fairly gentle procedure to change the tools.
user preference.
Hoss
Looking good Hoss, but one thought, don't you need a groove in those flanges to allow the tool changer to firmly grip the tool holders? I think the Z-bot/LMS tool changer adds them to Tormach tool holders, and most of the BT/ISO/CAT tool holders I've seen are also grooved...
One other question - how feasible do you think it would be to use a screw & stepper to force the lever down onto the drawbar rather than using an air-cylinder? I'd quite like a silent all-electric solution if possible...
Cheers.
I was wondering the same thing but have had no time to look into it.
John
Hey Hoss.
I've been lurking your threads for some time, Love your work and videos. I visit your website frequently and click my way around.
I am attempting your cnc conversion as we speak, just ordered the bearings for the Y and Z.
Just thought I'd let you know that mcmaster has the drill rod you used for those tool holders for about $18 less per 3' piece.
I saved about $20 on the bearings there as well.
Keep up the good work, Can't wait to see the auto changer in action.
Best Regards,
Andy
When I get to Phase 2 with an articulating tool changer like the LMS, I'll be using a simpler tool rack than they use.
Right now in Phase 1, I'm simply making a stationary tool rack (plate with holes in it)
that the tools will be lowered into. No groove necessary.
The 1.5 OD will stop the tool falling through the 1.25 dia. holes in the rack.
Will use a similar setup in Phase 2 except that the rack will be round and rotate. The less complications the better.
About the Stepper/ screw releasing the drawbar,
In theory it could work with enough torque to force the lever down, but it would be slow.
There are electric solenoid actuators that I looked into first to release the drawbar, but they are much larger and more expensive than an air cylinder.
There are also electric linear actuators that can exert more than enough force
without the need for a lever, but they are pretty slow too.
This example from Surplus Center exerts 900 lbs, but takes 15 seconds to move 1.65 inches.
Only needs to move a fraction of that to release but doesn't have limit switches built in.
As usual I went for the cheapest way.
Also here's a drawing showing how the tool holder, collet and spindle interact.
Hoss
http://www.hossmachine.com
Last edited by hoss2006; 10-17-2007 at 07:35 PM.
Using gravity to do all the work is a fanatsically simple idea - I look forward to hearing how well it works. I'd imagine that with the air-cylinder giving the drawbar a good kick as well as just moving it, inertia in the tool holder will aid ejection
Gravity and a little spring loaded friction to give a little tug on the tool holder
to pull it out of the collet.
Besides, I don't want to listen to the tools vibrating in sloppy holes in the rack
when it's milling.
We'll see how much the collet releases when the drawbar is done.
I have a sketch somewhere for the 10 position tool rack I had in mind for phase 2.
It has openings that will allow a long tool bit to pass so I wouldn't have to waste alot
of Z travel to pull a drill bit all the way out of the rack.
just enough to clear the tool holder itself, then move out on the X.
Hoss
I think I understand what you mean. I think you have the advantage that the end of your tool holders and by the extension the tool are always narrower than the body of the tool holder, or your flange. I know tormach make some tool holders where this isn't the case - e.g. when holding big drill chucks, or boring heads, but you can always change those manually. The ER collet holders are also a bit of a pain as the ER-nut moves up and down depending on the diameter of the tool you're clamping.
In the case of drill chucks, I was planning on using 3/8 drill chucks with a toolholder that has a larger 2.250 OD flange.
Same principle just a bigger hole in the rack.
Could still use larger drill bits with the shanks turned to 3/8.
Or they could just as easily be used in the 3/8 toolholder.
There's always more than one way to hold your tool.
Hoss
D'oh - how obvious - you don't have to have all the tool rack slots the same!In the case of drill chucks, I was planning on using 3/8 drill chucks with a toolholder that has a larger 2.250 OD flange.
Same principle just a bigger hole in the rack.
Could still use larger drill bits with the shanks turned to 3/8.
Or they could just as easily be used in the 3/8 toolholder.
There's always more than one way to hold your tool.
Hoss
I have been considering turning down my tools as well - it should be fine for drills and end-mills, but I'd quite like to be able to use a facemill without having to remove my rapid changer and collet. I'm not sure I can get away with turning that all the way down from R8 to 10mm though!
I am really interested to see how well your powered drawbar works - if I can completely avoid manual manipulation of the drawbar, I can design my new machine without the requirement that I must be able to get to the drawbar with relative ease.
Good luck, and please keep the pictures coming!
Made a tutorial video to show how I setup Mach 3 for the Cnc4pc C6 Spindle Board
and C10 Breakout Board on a second parallel port.
If you get one, read the instructions too.
It's 35 Megs, 11 min.
Right Click> Save As to download.
mach3C6setup.wmv
Hoss
http://www.hossmachine.com
OK, I have all the electronics and software figured out for the tool change, drawbar
and flood coolant control.
Have Mach 3 all set up as far as I can go for now.
Will have to modify the tool change macro when I get the home switches installed and the tool rack mounted.
Just waiting on a relay for the flood coolant, then I can button everything up
and hook it all up to the mill this weekend.
Time to get the mill making some parts to finish this up.
Here's a video showing the macro and relays working.
Hoss
http://www.hossmachine.com
hoss, your insane, ingenious, and inspiring!! keep up the good work.. hehehehehe
Grizzly X3, CNC Fusion Ballscrew kit, 3 500oz-in bipolar steppers, 3 203v Gecko's, Linear power supply from Hubbard CNC, Mach 3, BOBcad Pro Art V22, Rhino.
One more preview video, this time showing the power drawbar air cylinder in action.
I chose a single acting air cylinder vs. a double acting like the LMS drawbar uses. It's a lot cheaper.
I got this Bimba from Surplus Center for $3.95.
The cheapest double acting I found with the same piston diameter cost 10 times more.
I used this 120 VAC 4 WAY 2 POSITION SINGLE SOLENOID VALVE ($24.95)
It has exhaust ports that let the air escape when the air cylinder is deactivated,
spring pressure returns the cylinder.
It's enough to get the lever out of the way so the spring washers can do their job and grab the tool.
It also has a manual button on top (red) to extend/retract without electricity.
Enough testing in the lab, it's time to get everything in the shop and put the mill back together.
Later Hoss
http://www.hossmachine.com
Awesome job, Hoss. Really pulled this together fast. I'm looking forward to seeing it in action once you've assembled everything.
so been following your thread for a while Hoss...nice I like what you are doing.
So got me thinking I have a small mold clamp that was part of an injection molding machine that I am building...well havent done anything with it for some time, I guess I should say WAS building. But I am very interested to see how well yours works as I may take my cylinder/solenoid etc etc and use it on an ATC like yours for my X3 which is cnc'd with geckos 203Vs etc.
Also I have a couple 7x10 lathes and a grizzly 11x26, so I may sacrifice one of the small lathes and use the head stock for a turning center attachment for the mill like I saw on your site...I did notice though you didnt use it to make your collet holders? any reason why?
Posted a couple pics of my mold clamp with electronics...
CRAP!!!
I had all the electronics and computer hooked back up to the mill,
fired it up and retuned the motors, everything looked good.
Then I noticed the A axis motor sitting there so I thought I'd plug it in and tune it too.
Didn't turn off the dang power to the Xylotex board first.
You guessed it, it popped, I smelled something like fried rat and then nothing.
BONEHEAD!
After some testing, even only 5 volts gets the A axis chip rolling out the smoke.
Checked around on some xylotex forums, I may be able to yank the A axis chip
and still be able to use the X,Y and Z.
Find out tomorrow.
Otherwise it's another $185.
Maybe I'll ask Santa for some Geckos.
KOS, the lathe attachment had been down for a while, I damaged the bearings and was waiting for a replacement.KOS so been following your thread for a while Hoss...nice I like what you are doing.
...I did notice though you didnt use it to make your collet holders? any reason why?
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