Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills - Page 4


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Thread: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

  1. #61

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I think some software would be of great help, especially now that I have the machine mostly doing what it should be doing. I assume you mean HMS Advisor mobile? If so, $97 for three years seems like a pretty decent deal really.

    I have a little bit of work to do on the PDB. Once I do that, I should be able to run a little more drawbar pressure, that will help with occasional TTS related chatter I get. I try to run tools short, but I also find myself boring holes and pockets that tend to be deep. So stickout is always something I am playing with that. I also think I gain some on the Z axis gibs, they can be a bit tighter really as the center of the column is getting a bit sloppy. I just have to play a bit of a trick with the gib strip, but I think I can get a best of both worlds arrangement. While I am in there, I will revise the oiling too, I'm not sure it's working that well on Z.



  2. #62
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    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    It has helped me quite a bit over the years. I have used it for everything from my G0704 to the Brother Speedios at work, I got the pro license on sale for about the same cost as the hobby license.

    Nice job on the ATC btw! One of the things making me want to fix mine up (it has been sitting in a corner for ~7 years, the saddle ways were so bad I couldn't ever get less than .015 backlash so it sort of needs either re-machined or linear rails).



  3. #63

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Now that the ATC is working very reliably, it's an absolute dream. In some ways it's better than I expected it to be. I need to rework the Frankenstien's Monster door that is on umbrella, it looks like crap, but also isn't sealed very well by virtue of all the openings it has. haha

    .015" backlash is awful. There has to be a number of issues there. At the sloppiest, my machine is around .003", but I can halve that when I have everything really nice. As the casting aren't great, and the components are basically the cheapest available, it takes constant adjustment to maintain this. Though, adding the automatic oiler has greatly reduced that. You should recheck your machine to see if something is broken or lose though, it could be a combination of stuff.



  4. #64
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    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Quote Originally Posted by CL_MotoTech View Post
    Now that the ATC is working very reliably, it's an absolute dream. In some ways it's better than I expected it to be. I need to rework the Frankenstien's Monster door that is on umbrella, it looks like crap, but also isn't sealed very well by virtue of all the openings it has. haha

    .015" backlash is awful. There has to be a number of issues there. At the sloppiest, my machine is around .003", but I can halve that when I have everything really nice. As the casting aren't great, and the components are basically the cheapest available, it takes constant adjustment to maintain this. Though, adding the automatic oiler has greatly reduced that. You should recheck your machine to see if something is broken or lose though, it could be a combination of stuff.
    It is the saddle-gibb-base fit. As soon as the gibb is tight enough to not rock with minimal pressure backlash jumps to that figure (as a result of sticking). I messed with it for a long time with no luck, replaced the ballscrew, thrust bearing and mount, even the base and gibs (and scraping) before figuring out that the saddle-gib interface is bowed significantly so whenever the gibb is tightened up at all it deforms and the ends dig in to the base. I finally gave up on it and bought a used 8000lb machine that I have been using since then. I will likely end up converting the whole thing over to rails sooner or later just for the experience of doing it.



  5. #65

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Dang, that really sucks. I can't imagine it would get any better once you have 50lbs of vises on the table either. Would a new saddle fix it? I replaced the Z carriage on my machine because I couldn't ever get it adjust decently. It's much better now. The two carriages are noticeably different... but it's working.

    I've been playing with HSMAdvisor. I have 29 days to figure it out. If I like it, I may buy it.



  6. #66

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    So I purchased FS Wizard for mobile, I guess I cheeped out, it's like $18. I don't know if that's for a year or a life time. Either way it's a drop in the bucket so whatever... I decided to go for it because I have been gaining confidence to leave the realm of aluminum.

    This in mind, I have a decent stainless steel project coming up. I decided on 416 as it's reasonably priced in the stock I need. I've only done a few test cuts, but this stuff is really easy to work with. I am super pleased! The big issue is my knowledge of CAM right now. I am terrible at roughing operations, especially so Fusion 3D adaptive. The cycles go forever with all these step downs plunges and what not, the tooth paths are never ending! I need to get it streamlined, with some more experience hopefully I will. I've never had an issue in Al, but with steel I am still very cautious. That said, I think I am really going to be able to dial it in. I've got enough stock for roughly 50 test parts. So I guess I am going to get familiar pretty quick.

    I'll grab some photos when I can.



  7. #67

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Also, does anyone have any suggestions for slitting saw feeds and speeds in stainless? I take it the HSS blade I used isn't exactly up to the 416. Or at least it won't be once I make like 2 of these parts. Given the amount of red hot steel flying off the cut I'd guess I am a bit off. I hope to find some carbide blades that will hopefully last a lot longer.



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    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    rockriver makes good quality carbide tip slitting saws but they are a tad pricey . 416 is free machining so you should be able to get away with using hss as long you don't go nuts on your speeds and feeds and throw lots of coolant at it



  9. #69

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I have the Tormach 1/2" arbor saw. I'm not crazy pleased with it, the nut self destructed in like the first 2 months of ownership, and Tormach claims they cannot even sell me a new nut. In fact, when I complained nicely, they told me to machine my own. lol. I can do that, I just don't feel like it. The nut should be like $5.

    Anyways, it's hard to find nice saw blades for a 1/2" arbor in diameters less than like 3". So that seems to leave me with more of these HSS Tormach blades, which aren't that great in steel in my limited experience. They are perfectly fine in Aluminum. The other option is to buy a carbide blade from Tormach, but they are like $105 a piece, and given the stellar support I am getting from Tormach I am not too inclined to do more business them if I can avoid it. Moreover, a 3" blade is going to start getting pretty tight when the ATC inserts as the OD of the blade get's close-ish to the column when the carousel turns. I guess I am in a bid of a rock and a hard place. A larger more common blade size would likely be available in a better quality, but the 1/2" arbor and limited space makes that purchase difficult.



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    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I'd avoid the chinese cutters tormach sells . There are a good number of quality hss slitsaws which are made by reputable companies . They will cost more but the heat treat and and cutter geometry will be proper . At the same time you can easily get away with a cheap arbor and fit it into a side lock holder .
    Without a doubt you'd have to cut slowwwww with hss , and unless your time crunched or doing production then it'll get the job done . Otherwise a carbide tip will definitely do the job , but even then your not going to be looking at rocket speeds .
    If the tool interferes with your atc then the easiest thing to do is throw in an m0 after the tool change then hand bomb the tool

    I'm guessing that your slot depth is greater than what a t slot cutter can do ??



  11. #71

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I ended up buying a few carbide blades from McMaster. They arrive tomorrow. We will see how they work. I got 1.5" OD on these, still large enough to do the job, just 40% cheaper than a 2" saw.

    The slot is below a larger OD, so I have to clear that OD and still get in there with the saw. The slot is only 2mm by 2mm, but getting over the OD is the issue.

    I have pretty good flood, at least for a home conversion mill, but it's more of a high volume than it is a high pressure system. So I'm sure that action of the tooling means that I don't always get great cooling directly at the cut. For aluminum it works very well, for heavier materials it's probably decent, but certainly not optimal.

    I still have to come up with some fixturing to do this project, I'd like to make at least 10 at a time. I bought some carbide drills too, as i'd rather make it through the run without finding I melted or disappeared my generally low quality HSS drill (thanks harbor freight).

    My tool change macro allows me to run tools that aren't on the carousel, it requests a manual change. I use the slitting saw so often though that I keep on the ATC basically permanently. I find I use my mill as a lathe a lot, and I use the slitting say to part items, generally pieces that I will run like 6 or so out of a single piece of round stock.



  12. #72

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    This project has been coming along.










    The current run times are somewhat lowered at this point. I will be able to cut machining time by about 20% once I get my fixture setup to do this work. I use four tools in total to do this. Run time for a single piece, no special fixture, is about 24 minutes including the six tool changes. My machine changes tools in about 30 seconds. So three minutes of run time is simply tool changes. Slow, but I don't have to stand there, and it's been really awesome! My MRR's are also on the low side. I am still working up to it. I really don't want to break any tooling. Using FSWizard Pro on my phone, it's obvious I am not using much HP or really loading the machine much, so I am going to up width of cut next. I am easily running .3" DOC with .04" WOC at 22ipm and .0012 IPT, this is only about .22hp and 12lbs of cutting force. I'll be upping WOC by twice on the next test run. Between this and eliminating tool changes with the fixture, I can get run times down to around 16 minutes. Right now Fusion estimated run times are coming in basically on the money. Customizing machine parameters have let me dial that in.

    These are the four tools I am using. 3/8" 3 flute carbide end mill (60 degree), a 1/4" 2 flute carbide chamfer mill, a 1/8" carbide drill, and a 1.5" by 1/16" carbide slitting saw.

    The carbide slitting saw changed the game. It's much better than the Tormach HSS one. I'm not sure what brand it is, but I got it from McMaster. Pricy at $60, but I'm guessing it will out last 6 of the Tormach HSS ones. It's also a lot quieter which is nice. The carbide drills were also $16 a piece, ouch. I pray they last forever.

    Overall, I am happy. The parts come off the mill ready for the customer. No finishing required. I have easy been achieving +/-.001. Things are good!



  13. #73

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    To move forward with this stainless project from above I needed to make be able to make more than one at a time. Currently I was chucking the stock in my 3 jaw chuck on my table. So I designed up a test fixture. The fixture is 8" long, so about 2" per part, meaning the max I can realistically get on the table X wise is 9. Realistically, running four at a time will be pretty decent in the short term considering I only need to make 50 or so. If the fixture works and I need to make more of these I'll probably make a second fixture like it to get 8 parts on the table. The plan is to hold the fixture in a 4" vise. Anyways, the work came out really nice. For once, I modeled everything correctly, and it all looks like it's going to work as planned. Nice! I've always hated the Fusion horizontal path, but this time around the finish is really good. On to attempting to use it to make some parts now.







  14. #74
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    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I'm a massive fan of miteebites . Your cutting forces are likely needing to be somewhat light since your contact surfaces are very small . I'd smack that part around some with a hammer to see if it will move .

    Looking at it as a production fixture , I'd have undercut the flats in the wall to fit the round better (slightly undersize) for more contact and replace the hex with with a diy one that has a round undercut into it . Reason to under-size the undercut is to ensure 3 point contact vs a possible 2 since stock sizes vary . It usually locks the part in place .

    Seeing as how you have 2 placements for the clamp it's easy to assume that you plan to do a couple different sizes , the other corner can be used the same way for the other size .

    I've attached a rough sketch . It's not to knock your setup by any means , but I've made hundreds of fixtures in similar styles and this is how I would do it so that I can feel safe to walk away from the machine or not have a part flying at me . On a short part it wouldn't be too bad but on a long part there is a lot of leverage trying to force a part out of a fixture

    Also a nice finish touch is to undercut the corners with a dovetail , that way it accommodates the sharp saw cut nicely

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills-capture-png   Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills-capture1-png   Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills-capture2-png  


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    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    btw , this takes it a step further to ensure even better contact

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills-capture-png  


  16. #76

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    This is the first time I've used them, so I appreciate the feedback.

    I gave it a run last night, and well there are a few obvious mess ups on my part. The big one being that the miteebites are about .01" too far from the stock. I kind of made up all the numbers when I designed this, so I didn't get it quite right by the time all the play is taken up in the various items. I know the .01" figure is pretty correct because I was able to use a .01" feeler gage to shim the miteebite and then successfully machine a part. Before that, the hammer test showed that the stock simply wasn't going to stay in place.

    I'll probably butcher up the feeler gage so I have four shims and just move on. If I ever make a second fixture I'll move the holes forward that .01".



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    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I always save some steel strap from my bundles of material to use as shims between the material and miteebites , thats on the odd occasion of undersized materials .
    The beauty of that style of clamp is the sky is the limit with what a guy can do when creating fixtures . A piece of strapping which is typically .023" can be used to offset a buutton head on a lathe , and an array of clamp bodies can be custom made to fit the job

    one thing that helps with miteebites is to pull upwards on the miteebite as you clamp down , this helps the clamp to pull down on the part . It's not exactly necessary but it can help if the part has a tendency to lift while clamping . I've done a lot of fixtures with fat orings under the clamp for that purpose . The clamps are great for roughing jobs but they can be finicky on finish jobs because of lifting or tilting of the part . Thats where a lot of foresight into all possible fail scenarios is helpful when designing a finishing fixture



  18. #78

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    Thanks, metal. I'll have to look into o-rings or something like that. Right now one of the biggest issues I face is that my Harbor Freight horizontal band saw can't make a straight cut to save its life. I've adjusted it numerous times to no avail. It would be nice if I could place a reasonably square piece of stock in the fixture and go from there.

    Positions 1,2,4 and successfully machined all operations on the fixture. Position 3 is loose, and it ejected the stock from the fixture. I'm glad to have a full enclosure on the machine. It was quite the hit against the glass. I'll have to up the shim stock between the miteebite and the stock. I suspect the drill wondered a bit when drilling the holes for the miteebite bolt, I didn't program any form of spot drilling. Likely a naive mistake on my part.

    My CAM programming is amateur at best sometimes. I wondered why I broke the tips off my end mill in a serious plunge, well it's because I programmed it to do that. I was on the the right track getting it figured out, but I was looking at the wrong tool path... Frustrating. Sometimes I wonder how the pro's do it.

    I also crashed my touch probe, the first time in many months, maybe even more than a year? I can't remember at this point. The pitfalls of such a small machine with an ATC is what I keep telling myself, but it sure as hell frustrates me. The probe crashed against the fixture on a routine tool change, but right now I don't have a way to make UCCNC move to a tool change position before every change. I'm just not savvy enough with the M6 macro.

    I am going to have to order a few new steel appropriate end mills, I will also order a four flute chamfer mill or two. Then I think I can get back to this project with everything looking pretty refined. It's been quite the learning experience, and I'm going to go to bed a bit frustrated this evening.



  19. #79

    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I don't know what it is about the Thanksgiving holiday but it has always driven developments in my life. My son will turn 5 this Thanksgiving, having been born on Thanksgiving day despite his mother's dismay. I actually ordered several items they day before Thanksgiving five years ago, some stock, a three jaw vise, and some end mills, all for my machining operations. I did this from the hospital in our down time before the birth of my son. Here I am again, five years later, and I'm still building on that. It's crazy to think about.



  20. #80
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    Default Re: Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

    I can sort of relate to your frustration . I decided the other day to fire up my 3d printer after probably 2 yrs of no use . I have some 7x7x1.5 " control boxes to make . the first 2 came out warped but are useable I suppose . Getting prints to stick has been the bulk of my problem plus bad programs , and I'm days into it .
    It's been so long since I've used it that I completely lost all my previous saved settings and it's like learning all over again . I've started so many worthless programs so far that it's ridiculous . I wish I knew everything about everything but I don't and this printing stuff is killing me

    Today I fired it up to get it warm and within minutes I started to smell smoke . I know that smell and I knew it wasn't going to be good . I looked up and smoke was pouring out of the controller . It turns out I cooked the motherboard portion for the heat bed . The really stupid thing about it is there is a mosfet mod to prevent this issue from happening and I have it but never installed it . Afterwards I figured I had nothing to lose so I inserted the mosfet mod and sure enough I could see the temp working up towards the 60 degrees that it's set to , then it kept going to 65 70 80 and eventually up to 140 . Needless to say I've got a new mother board on the way for this turd

    If I had the material on hand I could have machined a bunch of aluminum boxes in a fraction of the time I've spent with this . I think I remember why the printer was left on the side to be forgotten , except now I'm at the point of being in the pissed off determination mode



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Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills

Speeds, Feeds, and Strategies for Bench Top Mills