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Thread: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

  1. #1

    Post CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Hi guys, I'm new here and this is my first post, and hopefully not the last. Please be gentle, lol

    I'm in the process of building my first CNC mill. After doing a bit of research, I've decided to go for hybrid servo motors over the traditional steppers as I have heard that steppers are prone to losing steps at high speed. I'm not planning on running the machine fast, but would rather spend the extra money and get the servo's straight up.

    I have a bit of a dilemma. I purchased the motors through one of the many Chinese sellers on Ebay. They arrived today in a big white plastic shipping bag with no bubble wrap or any sort of padding around them. The motors were packed in a moulded foam casing and sticky taped together. The foam casing on all of the motors is cracked. They look like they have been dropped or thrown around.

    My question is, is there a possibility that there could have been some internal damage caused to encoders or anything else inside the motor? The exterior looks fine, not even a scratch on them. I'm worried if I plug them in and they start smoking, I'll have no chance in returning them for a refund. I have contacted the seller, but have had no reply as yet.

    Has anyone been in this situation where they have received the motors with damaged packaging, but they were ok? I have just spent $550 on the 3 motors, so don't want to take any risks. I was looking at the Teknik servo's but unfortunately they were going to be to much to post to AUS. I now wish I had paid the extra money and purchased them.

    Any help would be much appreciated.

    Regards,
    Bob

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    Last edited by Bob_ski; 07-05-2019 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Updated heading


  2. #2

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    I've just realise I posted this in the wrong section. Is there any chance it could be moved to milling machines please? Sorry for the stuff around.



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    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Buying from China off Ebay is risky. I have done it way more than I would like. Unfortunately the problem is that there is little way for the buyers to get satisfaction if they are dealing with a less than reputable seller. That is why, on Ebay, you only buy from sellers with a great reputation rating. It sounds like you have have gotten a seller that is less than perfect. My advice is to test the motors as soon as possible to make sure they are working. You may well have gotten lucky and all of them function. If not you may have to suck it up and buy a replacement from another seller.

    A stepper motor is pretty robust and the encoders are pretty solid as well. I would suspect that, unless there is visible damage to the motor itself, they are probably ok. It sounds like the foam packaging did it's job and protected the contents.

    I always use a credit card for large purchases from Ebay. I have never had to do this, but I think I could cancel payment from the CC company if I got screwed by an Ebay seller.

    Finally I can't say enough nice things about the Teknic ClearPath servo's. I use them exclusively on my projects after having bad luck with steppers. It's not that steppers are bad, it's just that ClearPath SD servos are so much better. Yes, they are not cheap, but quality is always more expensive.



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    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    File a complaint with eBay and the vender. Since he is in China he will try to stall and delay as long as he can until your Return/Refund time expires.

    1000x750 Workbee CNC - Mach4 - PMDX USB - Windows 10 Pro


  5. #5

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Thanks for the reply and also placing the post where it's meant to be maxspongebob. There doesn't seem to be any physical damage to the motors that I can see. The one thing I wasn't sure about is how the internals would cope with being knocked around. I paid via PayPal so I have protection there. In Australia we have a policy where if a product is defective, the seller has a responsibility to replace the item or offer a refund in this situation. They are also responsible for returning the item back to them.

    I'm not really keen to plug it in and try it just in case there is an issue with them, and it goes up in smoke, lol. My option to return them would then cease. It's good to know that they are robust though. I'm going to contact Ebay today and see exactly where I stand and what I can do about it. If there's nothing I can do because it's just the packaging that's damaged, then I have to bite the bullet and hope they work. At the end of the day, lesson learnt. I did look at their reviews, they had pretty good stats and sold a lot of these motors recently. I know it still doesn't really mean they are good.

    If I can return them, I'm going to go straight to Teknic and buy a set of motors. It's going to be double the price, but you get what you pay for right? Any recommendations on what motor would work really well with the DM45 mill? I thinks its similar to your Grizzly RF45 mill, just has different gear knobs.

    This will be my first build so I still have a lot to learn. I understand the mechanical side of the build. The electrical and the operating side is where I'm going to struggle. I can read wiring diagrams so I will work out the electrical eventually.I'm struggling to understand how a drawing on a program like Fusion 360 turns the file into G-Code for the machine to do it's thing. This is one thing I have to try and get my head around, it's pretty daunting.

    Thanks again for the reply and advice.

    Cheers,
    Bob



  6. #6

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Thanks for the reply George, I'm going to ring them today and see where I stand.

    Cheers,
    Bob



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    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Some questions for you.

    What software will you run? Linux? Windows? Mach 4?
    What motion controller will you be using?
    Are you buying a kit with all the brackets, adapters, couplers, ballscrews?
    Were your hybrid drives NEMA 34?
    What is the diameter and pitch of the ballscrews?

    Recomending a particular drive is risky without all the details. My machine is a smaller X2 type system, Grizzly G0704, so it is much lighter then your 45. That said, when I built it, I planned on someday upgrading to a much larger machine and I tried to buy components that I could use on the bigger machine. All my motors on the mill are NEMA 34, yes it looks a bit silly with those big servos on a little mill. I used ClearPath CPM-SDSK-3421S-RLN.

    These could probably do well on your system also. The only thing I would really worry about though would be the Z axis. The weight of your head and spindle motor could require a counter balance to achieve a good acceleration in the up direction.

    Last edited by maxspongebob; 07-06-2019 at 11:01 AM.


  8. #8

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Hi Max,
    Not too sure about software yet, still deciding on whether to go for Linux or UCCNC.
    As for motion controller, its a toss up between the UC300ETH-5LPT ethernet or Smooth stepper ESS, but not sure if that will work with Linux. Does it?
    I'm making all the brackets myself on the old faithful HM32 /RF32

    The motors I purchased were Nema 34 12nm. I was looking on Teknics site earlier today and realised I'll be looking at a ballpark figure of about 2K for Nema 34 motors delivered to me, It's just a bit more than I expected. I'll jump on and have a look at the ones you used.
    I bought the ball screws from an Ebay seller in China called e-link-world. I have purchased all of the 20mm linear rails and ball screws from him for my router build,(which will happen one day) and they look as though they are of pretty good quality. They manufacture the parts themselves.
    I'm using an RM2505 for the Z axis and RM2005 for X and Y

    Looking at how big these steppers are, I can imagine the steppers would be the first thing you would notice on yours, lol.

    I was actually thinking of using a planetary gearbox, would that work? The counterbalance idea is much better. Your're not wrong about it being heavy, I think there's about 80-90 kgs just in the head. Luckily I have a little digger that'll do all the lifting for me,lol.

    Cheers,
    Bob



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    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    I am running Mach 4 on Windows. I am using an Ethernet Smooth Stepper on the lathe and Pokeys57CNC on the mill. I like the ESS better, but neither will work with Linux. Although I like Linux a lot and use it on many of my systems, the idea of offloading the motion control processing onto a special purpose board was appealing. It's personal preference really.

    A planetary would work, but you would loose a lot of rapid movement and would gain a bit of backlash. The best thing would be to try it to see how well a direct drive would work. If it is not great then use a 3:1 or 5:1 reduction gearbox inline. 20 and 25mm screws. Will they fit without much modification?

    Here are links to my mill and lathe conversions. I just finished the lathe last week and now I am getting to learn lots of new things.

    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/bench...are-posts.html
    https://www.cnczone.com/forums/verti...-software.html



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    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_ski View Post
    Hi Max,
    Not too sure about software yet, still deciding on whether to go for Linux or UCCNC.
    As for motion controller, its a toss up between the UC300ETH-5LPT ethernet or Smooth stepper ESS, but not sure if that will work with Linux. Does it?
    I'm making all the brackets myself on the old faithful HM32 /RF32

    The motors I purchased were Nema 34 12nm. I was looking on Teknics site earlier today and realised I'll be looking at a ballpark figure of about 2K for Nema 34 motors delivered to me, It's just a bit more than I expected. I'll jump on and have a look at the ones you used.
    I bought the ball screws from an Ebay seller in China called e-link-world. I have purchased all of the 20mm linear rails and ball screws from him for my router build,(which will happen one day) and they look as though they are of pretty good quality. They manufacture the parts themselves.
    I'm using an RM2505 for the Z axis and RM2005 for X and Y

    Looking at how big these steppers are, I can imagine the steppers would be the first thing you would notice on yours, lol.

    I was actually thinking of using a planetary gearbox, would that work? The counterbalance idea is much better. Your're not wrong about it being heavy, I think there's about 80-90 kgs just in the head. Luckily I have a little digger that'll do all the lifting for me,lol.

    Cheers,
    Bob
    The UC300ETH-5LPT works with UCCNC, Mach3 and Mach4.
    The ESS works with Mach3 and Mach4 only.
    Non of them work with Linux.

    For stepper drive you can use any drives which has step/dir interface. No need to buy the most expensive ones like Technics.
    You can get some cheap Nema34 steppers from China and some D860 or DM860 high current stepper drives and they will do the job just fine.
    For the stepper motors one thing to take care of is to get a low inductance one to get the best possible performance.



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    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Without knowing details of your servos, you might be better off with Linuxcnc and close the position feedback from your encoders in Linuxcnc.. Most people will use a Mesa 7i77 for servos as that gives you more than enough analog servo interfaces and encoder inputs. for your motors. This is a daughter board so you'd need a pci or pcie Mesa 5i25/6i25 or alternatively one of their ethernet cards to hook the 7i77 to.

    If I was going to use servos on a mill, I'd use a 12 volt motherboard with the 7i77 and wire the motherboard into the control box as if its just another component. Then depending on if my mother board had a PCI or PCIe bus, I'd use a 5i25 or 6i25.

    Rod Webster
    www.vmn.com.au


  12. #12

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Hi Bob,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I'm still not sure what software to go for. I have been reading a lot of good reviews about the UCCNC. I'll definitely stay away from Mach 3 as they have stopped any future updates, from what I've been reading anyway. I don't think I'll use the planetary gearbox just in case, and stick with direct drive.
    I was going to use the inline version.
    I looked at the stepper motors you chose and they look like a great motor. Unfortunately I'd be looking at approx 2k delivered to me. It's just a little out of the budget at the moment. I'll end up like John Wayne Bobbitt if I spend lash out on those, lol. Definitely be upgrading later down the track.
    I really like your build, You've done a great job. I was contemplating doing the same thing you did with the chip pan. I did the same thing with my lathe a few years back and it works a treat. I like the way toddbeau made his table, I really like the way it all falls in the centre.
    Nice job with the enclosure around the mill. I'll be cutting a lot of Delrin, that stuff makes a big mess, so something like that would work really well.



  13. #13

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Hey Bob,

    Just wondering how you setup your limit switches? I couldn't open the pics.



  14. #14

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Hi OLFCNC,

    Thanks for the reply.

    I've been looking on Alibaba the last couple of days and talking to a few sellers. I've never purchased on the site before. I'm hoping I could get a bit of input as to whether it's a trusted site. I did have someone contact me today trying to sell me something regarding industrial equipment. I received a warning from Alibaba letting me know to be careful. I deleted the contact immediately.

    I've found a Nema 34 12nm motor that seems to be well priced. I have the option of going for a driver that could be connected to AC voltage of 80-220 volt. I assume this doesn't need to have a PSU attached. Is this correct? Is this a good option to go with or should I stick to one that requires a PSU.

    I'm very new to this and still trying to get my head around it. I'm learning new things everyday. Thanks for the advice about searching for a low inductance motor. I'm sorry for sounding dumb, but i'm not sure what that means. What should I be looking for?

    Thanks for the clarifying the controllers. I knew the UC300ETH-5LPT works on UCCNC, but didn't know it also works on Mach 4.

    Last edited by Bob_ski; 07-07-2019 at 08:08 AM.


  15. #15

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Hi Rod,

    Thanks for the reply mate.

    I'm not familiar with Linux at all. To be honest with you, I'm not really familiar with any of the other ones either. I'm still learning about CNC in general. I'm still trying to understand how the drawing gets converted to G-code. I know you need a CAM program. Do you first draw the part, then export it to the cam program which then converts it to G-code? I've been watching endless amounts of videos and reading forums like this on building the machine. I haven't had time to watch videos or read forums on the CNC side of things. That's gonna be the next thing I'll need to focus on.

    I joined this site to get some knowledge from people like yourself who have been doing this for some time. I'm sure most people start off in this position where you're gathering so much information, you feel like your heads gonna explodes. It's a bit dramatic, lol.

    I really appreciate the information you provided about Linux. Is this what you use? My limited understanding is that there is no controller with this, it works through the pc's motherboard, is this correct or have I misunderstood. It seems to be pretty popular though and something to explore further. The good thing about, is the fact it's free. With UCCNC, you have to pay per controller, right?



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    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    YEs, I use LinuxCNC. The workflow is CAD-CAM-CNC. You draw a part in CAD, you convert that to gcode in CAM and run it on your CNC machine where the trajectory planner converts the gcode to machine movement. In my case, (2D plasma cutting), I use Sheetcam for CAM. I'm no machinist and had no background on any of this when I built my machine so I feel your pain.

    The fundamental difference between LinuxCNC and Windows solutions is that LinuxCNC is the motion Controller. With Mach and a Smooth stepper the smooth stepper is the motion controller. So that means Linuxcnc has far more power than a small card like a smooth stepper becasue it has the resources of a 64 bit processor and operating system to call on. There is a cost to this approach as it requires a real time operating system. Usually the PREEMPT_RT kernel in Linux these days. This means that under Linux, things happen exactly on time unlike Windows which cannot guarantee operations are done on time. Thats why Mach et al use external cards to do what Linuxcnc does. Whilst it probably does not matter for a simple mill or lathe, LinuxCNC's real strength is in its ability to connect with almost any hardware and allow the system integrator (thats you) to extend the linuxcnc core by writing components which once installed are treated as if they are part of LInuxCNC's core.

    Some of the hardware Linuxcnc can manage include simple parallel port breakout boards, a range of solutions from Mesa, Pico systems and General Mechatronics as well as ethercat systems. The Mesa ecosystem is particularly interesting as it can be extended to an almost infinite number of motors, encoders and Input and output cards. With a parallel port, linuxcnc generates the step pulses but with Mesa the stepgens are on the hardware board. Linuxcnc tells the stepgen to run art a given frequency which it does until told otherwise. But LinuxCNC can change that commanded frequency 1000 times a second! I use stepper motors and settled on a Mesa 7i76e ethernet card which has 5 step gens, spindle encoder 2 MPG inputs for jog wheels, 32 inputs, 16 outputs, a smart serial RS422 interface for additional IO plus 2 x 25 pinconnectors that can add two more cards so a 7i76e and 2 x 7i76 cards would give you 15 stepgens and over 100 inputs......

    Rod Webster
    www.vmn.com.au


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    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob_ski View Post
    Hi Rod,

    Thanks for the reply mate.

    I'm not familiar with Linux at all. To be honest with you, I'm not really familiar with any of the other ones either. I'm still learning about CNC in general. I'm still trying to understand how the drawing gets converted to G-code. I know you need a CAM program. Do you first draw the part, then export it to the cam program which then converts it to G-code? I've been watching endless amounts of videos and reading forums like this on building the machine. I haven't had time to watch videos or read forums on the CNC side of things. That's gonna be the next thing I'll need to focus on.

    I joined this site to get some knowledge from people like yourself who have been doing this for some time. I'm sure most people start off in this position where you're gathering so much information, you feel like your heads gonna explodes. It's a bit dramatic, lol.

    I really appreciate the information you provided about Linux. Is this what you use? My limited understanding is that there is no controller with this, it works through the pc's motherboard, is this correct or have I misunderstood. It seems to be pretty popular though and something to explore further. The good thing about, is the fact it's free. With UCCNC, you have to pay per controller, right?
    There are CAD and CAM softwares. You need both to create a toolpath.
    CAD softwares are Autocad, Freecad, Librecad and so on. Some are free some are not.
    There are also combined CAD/CAM softwares like Fusion360 in which you can draw your part and can also generate the g-code output.
    you then load that g-code file into the CNC controller, to UCCNC, LinuxCNC or whatever you will use.

    In my opinion there is nothing free in this world. If you will use LinuxCNC then you can use a parallel port which is obsolete nowadays and so you will need to get a Mesa card or something and it is not free.
    You also need support which you will get or not with a free software product.
    I'm not saying to not to get LinuxCNC just that things which look free are often the most expensive.

    Yes, the UCCNC is licensed per motion controller. The license costs 55 EUR which is the cost of a about 2 trays of beers in Sweden or in the USA.

    My advice is to download both softwares and try them out to see how you like them.



  18. #18

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Hi Rod,

    Thanks for the explanation on Linux. I'll definitely be doing more research into it, I won't dismiss it unless I feel it's too complicated. I have heard both Linux and UCCNC are easy to learn, so that's good for me. It takes time for me to get a complete understanding of things, I suppose it's normal.

    Good to see I'm not unique in thinking It's a lot of information to take. This would be be second nature to a machinist.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply. I'll start getting pics up once parts arrive and get components machined. I think I owe it to you all considering all of the great info I'm getting.



  19. #19

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Hi Olf,

    Thanks for the reply mate. I'm definitely going to get Fusion 36. There are a lot of tutorials on it and seems easy enough to understand. I've been using Tinkercad to draw stuff for my 3D printer. I've gotten pretty good at it, but think I'll go for something more professional for the mill. I like the fact it has the CAM software included.

    You're absolutely right about free stuff. Nothing is free in life, they'll get you somewhere. I don't mind spending the money, I need this gear to be reliable. I will be using the mill for my business making parts from Delrin/Acetal and steel. I'll definitely do my research on both, and decide from there. I have been leaning towards the UCCNC from the start, but you never know, Linux might work out well for me.

    We'd be lucky to get one tray of your Swedish beer here for 55 Euros, thanks to our Australian government and their high alcohol taxes, lol.

    Good idea about trying both to see which I prefer. I'll download the trial and have a bit of a play and decide from there. I might even try Mach 4 and see how I feel about it. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.



  20. #20

    Default Re: CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

    Does anyone have experience with a closed loop stepper driver requiring a voltage range of between 80-220v? Our power voltage here is 240v. Does this mean I don't need to use a PSU? I'm installing Nema 34 12nm motors. Is this a good choice of driver, or should I stick with a driver that requires a PSU?



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CNC Optimum DM45 Milling Machine - Need advice

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