The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)


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Thread: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

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    Default The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    Well, I've been up to silly things lately. I designed a tiny ATC spindle for my xzero mini raptor (which itself has been heavily revamped). As the title implies, the spindle is ISO10. You don't realise how small ISO10 is on a computer screen, but when you hold a 22mm 3d printed face mill with 3 CCMT 0602 inserts in your hand, you suddenly go "oh".

    Now it's time to make a real one.

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)-iso10_face_mill_2-jpg  


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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    it's so cute! and that print looks great too!

    random thought,and realize i'm no expert...but wouldn't you want the inserts angled (not the rake angle) out the opposite direction to take advantage of axial chip thinning and reduce radial loading?



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    they are angled 30 degrees for chip thinning... not sure what you mean. going the opposite way would make them a dovetail.
    rake is neutral as the inserts have their own positive rake. the tool uses the "unused" edges of the inserts after they get used in lathe tooling.



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    You'll have to forgive my quickly put together sketch here, but this is what I was thinking. I guess i was under the impression that the machine it's going in wasn't very rigid since it's an iso10 holder and wouldn't be taking very large depth of cuts. Maybe i shouldn't assume things like that. haha

    but orienting it this way gives you that option and gives you a square shoulder to work with. Just a thought, but either way, it looks great and is a great reuse of otherwise worthless inserts!
    The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)-insert-jpg



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    It's a facemill, if you rotate the insert around to get a straight shoulder you can't access the face of your workpiece anymore with the shallow corner of the insert, and you have contact with the sharp corners of the insert that are worn/broken.

    I would have been all over this a year ago. I found the iso10 taper just not enough to deal with even a single flute sharp HSS cut at 1". How well are you handling all 3 cutters?



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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ihavenofish View Post
    they are angled 30 degrees for chip thinning... not sure what you mean. going the opposite way would make them a dovetail.
    rake is neutral as the inserts have their own positive rake. the tool uses the "unused" edges of the inserts after they get used in lathe tooling.
    I'd consider doing one for 45° so to do larger chamfers, as well as being a facemill
    ... make it a little longer so you can grip it & not get pinched when putting it into the spindle



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    I have suggestions:

    1. Do what Superman suggested and make it longer. As a minimum I'd recommend making it the same length as an ISO10 collet holder with its nut would be. I don't think that the extra stick out at 22mm diameter is going to be significant deflection-wise, but keeping close to other tool lengths should help with Z-travel and work-holding.
    2. Make another. For me.
    3. Have you considered round inserts?



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    haha

    i have to get back to this project. teknomotor launched an ISO20 spindle, but, its still a little expensive, and a little big, and overpowered for my small machine. So i think theres still a need for a very small ISO10 atc spindle.

    the face mill was made so short because i only have 100mm travel. i drew the er16 collet holders also as short as possible. was less about deflection, more about clearance.



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    Quote Originally Posted by CS900 View Post
    You'll have to forgive my quickly put together sketch here, but this is what I was thinking. I guess i was under the impression that the machine it's going in wasn't very rigid since it's an iso10 holder and wouldn't be taking very large depth of cuts. Maybe i shouldn't assume things like that. haha

    but orienting it this way gives you that option and gives you a square shoulder to work with. Just a thought, but either way, it looks great and is a great reuse of otherwise worthless inserts!
    The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)-insert-jpg
    that would be a flash cutter. a few problems with it however:
    - you dont get a square shoulder with ccmt inserts, unless you dont use any helical rake.
    - you waste 2 insert edges. with mine, you are using "scrap" inserts form a lathe cutter (or a different face / end mill) - using the 2 "free" edges that don't get used on the standard lathe tool.

    i could go 45 degrees, but, i just drew it at 30 cause.. reasons. its just a mock model after all.



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    Have you seen the Spindtech ATC-800? It's the only ATC spindle I've seen with a 65mm diameter, and it too uses the ISO10 tool holder. Would love to put one on my Omio X4-800L (mainly for PCB prototyping) but unfortunately the spindle alone costs more than I paid for the whole machine...

    https://www.sorotec.de/shop/65mm-HFS...SK10-9172.html

    There's also the rather curious concept of ATC "adapters", which you mount to the front of an existing spindle. Mechatron have 65 and 80mm versions @ around €900, both also using ISO10 holders.

    https://www.spindel-shop.de/en/stc-t...ange-adapters/

    Any thoughts?



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    Lomax: These two items look like they are for wood routers. Usually that means that the bearings are not robust enough for milling. The exception would be very light milling in aluminium or very small diameter endmills for other metals. But the rest of the machine, aside from the spindle, must be suitable for the task.



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    I have an ATC-800, that's what I meant by iso10 just isn't enough, I've tried fly cutters smaller than this. But it would be great for PCB work, and it works fine in aluminum as long as you stay under 6mm cutters



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    Quote Originally Posted by cncuser1 View Post
    Lomax: These two items look like they are for wood routers. Usually that means that the bearings are not robust enough for milling. The exception would be very light milling in aluminium or very small diameter endmills for other metals. But the rest of the machine, aside from the spindle, must be suitable for the task.
    Quote Originally Posted by extent View Post
    I have an ATC-800, that's what I meant by iso10 just isn't enough, I've tried fly cutters smaller than this. But it would be great for PCB work, and it works fine in aluminum as long as you stay under 6mm cutters
    Thanks guys - I'm not surprised to hear this; seemed too good to be true (especially the "adapters"). ATC will forever remain a dream of mine, even though I know it is firmly out of reach (like so many of my other dreams!).



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    you can get BT30 spindles for only a tiny bit less than an ATC-800. It's still very expensive, the tooling is even more expensive, and there is no way you're going to fit it to an engraving machine, but the possibility is still out there. You may be able to fit an iso20 spindle to a machine like that, you just have to deal with the worse availability of toolholders.



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    Default Re: The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

    there are 2 types of spindles on the market. crap ones, and expensive ones...

    haha sorry.

    i mean, there are fast low torque models, and slow high torque models. this is independent of taper.

    Almost all low cost compact atc motor spindles are high speed low torque. They are very much not designed to swing a 1" cutter, in any material, regardless of taper size.

    Jianken makes some nice spindes in the $1000-$2000 range, from 62mm/iso10 to iso20, iso25 and iso30. these are all 24k to 60k rpm. They are not intended to be run at all under about 12000rpm. Your limit is torque, not the tooling.

    My spindle, whenever i get to building it is the opposite. It uses an ac servo motor, and has boatloads of torque at low rpm, but wont spin faster than 12-18k. In this case the limiter on the spindle becomes the tool interface. The stubby 25mm face mill will be fine for light cuts in aluminium. Long tools on deep side cuts will give it more problems. Think of ISO10 as slightly stiffer than ER16. If you wouldn't run it in an er16 collet, you wouldn't want to run it on this.



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The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)

The cutest face mill ever (ISO10 spindle and tool prototyping)