New Machine Build 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)


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Thread: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

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    Lightbulb 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Hey everyone! I haven't posted here in 4 years, but I have something that I think you'll find interesting. I built a Swiss type CNC mill-turn center. This was a DIY project, 2k budget. What you see here is actually the 2nd prototype. The reason I'm posting this now is because I'm planning a crowdfunding campaign soon, I and need some feedback ahead of time. To summarize, I got into building this because I was manufacturing 3d printer hotends and the machining costs were kind of high. So I designed and machined the machine you see below.

    It's sized for a 6 inch chuck on the main turning spindle, and the swiveling milling head is a 30 taper. I built this thing as rigid as possible. The milling head spindle bearings are larger than on a bridgeport. The other bearings have a 100mm diameter OD. The machine base is a solid 4x4 square bar, just under 4 feet long. All linear axes are large boxways, I know the people around here seem to love linear guides, but I prefer my machines to have that old school stoutness that you can't get with fancy drawer slides. And no ballscrews either. I've extensively tested my linear axis motion; positioning repeatability is a few ten-thousandths, backlash is under 0.0006". Checked with a dial indicator. I wouldn't have been able to make this machine with $2,000 if I had to spend $2,000 on the rails and screws alone!

    The whole thing is controlled by a 3d printer control board. Saves a lot of money, and 3d printer tech has a much larger community that has overcome many of the glitches that still plague cheap CNC machine controls. This machine is compatible with NEMA 23, 24, and 34 steppers and servos, but I plan on using a lot of ODrive servos in the production version. The main turning and milling spindles already have them, they're closed loop systems that allow for rigid tapping and threading and stuff. Plus, they're approximately 10 times more accurate than steppers and ridiculously fast in comparison.



    I pity the foo who can't see these glorious GIFs. It may take a minute to load them if you have bad internet. There should be 6 of them directly below, and they should look just like a 30 FPS video if they're playing normally. The gifs are hosted on the Hackaday forums since they don't have restrictive file size limits over there.








    I don't think this forum allows post editing, so I'll have to fill in the details in subsequent posts. More pictures and videos to come. Ask any questions you can think of. Critique all you want, I'll try to respond to everything.

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  2. #2
    Member CS900's Avatar
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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    this...is..amazing...

    I'd love to see build pictures.



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    That's awesome! Do you have a build thread?



  4. #4

    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Here's the first bit of progress from last July. Let me know if you'd rather have the build thread pictures as GIFs or still images.





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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    GIFS GIFS GIFS



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    I like ur build , is clean , and working .
    All parts are made from aluminum ?
    Can u process brass , or steel with ur build?
    What do u use for linear movement if u dont use ballscrews ?



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Wow!
    That thing has more moves that a fat belly dancer!
    What software are you using to drive all the axis? I can't imagine trying to keep up with all the available cutting planes!
    Great Machine!
    Very impressive!
    Thanks for posting.
    Bill

    billyjack
    Helicopter def. = Bunch of spare parts flying in close formation! USAF 1974 ;>)


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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    GIFs GIFs GIFs



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    Turning GIFs pls!



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Also is that <2k for the just the aluminum or for the entire thing? Because if you managed to make all of that for under 2k i want to know where you're shopping lol.



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andreiir View Post
    I like ur build , is clean , and working .
    All parts are made from aluminum ?
    Can u process brass , or steel with ur build?
    What do u use for linear movement if u dont use ballscrews ?
    Ya curious as well if the box ways and the slides are all aluminum. If so I'd think they would gall and wear quite fast. Then also how you're getting such accuracy from regular acme screws if you're not using ball screws.



  12. #12

    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    To answer your questions:

    1) All parts are made from aluminum ?
    Nope. The spindles, shafts, and hardware parts are all steel. The big structural parts are solid aluminum.

    2) Can u process brass , or steel with ur build?
    Yes, it cuts anything softer than tungsten carbide. I have a steel and a brass part in the video, as well as aluminum and plastic.

    3) What do u use for linear movement if u dont use ballscrews ?
    Leadscrews with roller thrust bearings and long, zero-clearance, double adjustable, lockable anti-backlash nuts. More on these later.

    4) What software are you using to drive all the axis?
    Repetier host for now. I'll make a custom GUI for the production version of the machine.

    5) Also is that <2k for the just the aluminum or for the entire thing?
    Entire thing. The 6061 I bought was 3 to 4 dollars per lb, and comprised the majority of the build cost. In production this will be $2 -$2.50 per lb for bulk purchases.

    6) Ya curious as well if the box ways and the slides are all aluminum. If so I'd think they would gall and wear quite fast.
    The boxways are aluminum but there are acetal wear pads under each moving assembly. No metal on metal contact to gall. The production version will be hard anodized with PTFE.


    A few more GIFs;



    This last one is to prove my point about the linear repeatability of this machine. You can see from the needle that movement is smooth to the micron, and doesn't have much backlash. It's about as good as industrial machines in this aspect.




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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Wow, dig those gifs also
    Looks like all it needs are some way covers, ptfe coating and lube system.



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Definitely following this thread and look forward to learn a bit more about how it's all gone together. I hope the aluminum/plastic ways hold up just because I think that's a cool idea I haven't seen executed before. For medium duty it could very well hold up fine? I have no experience with building 3D printers so I think using parts to drive the motors from that community makes total sense from an economy of scale standpoint. Not sure how programming for something like that works to control a 3+ axis machine when 3D printers are typically 3 axis and don't have a spindle ect. You seem to have it all figured out but my experience has been more with conversions using Mach 3 so I am probably missing something simple.



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Any concern of the thermal expansion using aluminum? I'd think things might get pretty warm running this for a while.



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    I think this is really cool. However, cost to produce a machine is not the same as raw materials costs, otherwise you could call the cost of an entire haas vmc as just $2000 for the cost of pouring the steel.

    Saving money by rolling your own controllers seems to be a good idea, but hours for money, you would need to sell a lot of product before breaking even. I think to crowdfund something you need nice visuals, and you're well on your way to achieving that. Assuming $2000 in raw costs to produce it, what do you suppose you need to sell them for to cover the labour and production? $10k?



  17. #17

    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    Yes Mountaindew, the production version will have a hard anodized PTFE surface on all the boxways. Everything else will be color anodized, although I haven't finalized the color scheme yet. The plastic-on-aluminum boxways don't actually need oil or grease.

    Cmelo, the 3d printer controllers I've been using generally cost around or just under $200 and come integrated with 5 to 12 stepper motor drivers directly on the board. The controllers execute gcode and are easy to use with free software, firmware, and inexpensive touchscreen or control panels. I know mach3 is the standard on these forums but from my perspective, that stuff should have been retired in 2010.

    Skrubol, I was also concerned with that during the build process. I did a run in test a while ago and it turns out that even after spinning the main spindle at 2,000 RPM for an hour from a cold start, there is no noticeable temperature change in either the spindle or the spindle housing. It's a huge mass of aluminum with face contact everywhere, so heat is distributed quickly and evenly. I think the main problem in the future is if people let this machine sit in a garage or shed that fluctuates 30 degrees daily. That would mess with the tool offsets a bit.

    Hackish, I'm actually not making my own electronics for this project. I'm using off the shelf 3d printer controllers that are proven and working for thousands of people as the main control board. The power supply is a big 48v Meanwell unit, which has great protection features (comes with a 5 year warranty).
    As far as the costs of building this machine, I have a good idea of what it's going to cost. The cost of the aluminum and steel was around $1,200 for this prototype, but that was at retail with a fairly high markup. Buying tons of it at a time would cut the cost roughly in half. Your $10,000 estimate is probably close to what it would be if I outsourced this to job shops. I'll be making these myself with a single large VMC in a small rented industrial space. The overhead cost of this will be several thousand a month whether I make 1 machine or 100 machines in that month. The tooling cost of milling aluminum is inexpensive, energy cost is approximately 30 cents per 20 pounds of chips cut.

    BTW, I should mention that there will be a few variants of this machine at launch to span the price range. Since they all use common parts, there isn't much added complexity except when it's boxed and shipped.



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    Default

    Is the ATC spindle an off the shelf part or something you made? I would love specifics on it and the 3d printer control board you mentioned for a personal project.



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    I wasn't aware of any 3d printer boards that would do full G code with the advanced features like rigid tapping that were mentioned above. I was involved in some of the original embedded work before 3d printers were that common, and at the time the control boards were pretty basic. Using parallel printer ports for bit banging, some of them... Ugh.



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    Default Re: 7 Axis Swiss Mill-Turn (DIY)

    The spindle: limitations? Precision, quality, matched angular contact bearings cost hundreds by themselves. plus then the taper (ISO30?) machining, heat treating and grinding, plus (presumably) pneumatic drawbar arrangement seems awfully expensive - my business is in manufacturing commercial machinery for processing MRI gradient coils, so I've been around. I'd love to know how you were able to keep the cost so low on the spindle specifically.

    Thanks,

    Lindsay



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