New Machine Build CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign


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Thread: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

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    Default CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Hello. I’m back with another project to share. Again, the full project is documented on my website Wade'O Design - Home with pages detailing the design & documentation including CAD models, parts/price list, electrical schematic, and program.

    This lathe conversion is a bit unique as it uses dual controllers; one for CNC with Mach4 and another to drive all the original manual controls with an Arduino UNO.

    Here’s a youtube video to summarize the project. First 10mins is the summary with remainder just build footage.


    Hope you enjoy.
    Cheers

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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Nice work Wade' O!

    I have watched your fixed gantry router vids on Youtube. Also very nice!

    I wish I had a CNC lathe, but I have too many projects on the go already. Perhaps one day (fingers crossed). Actually, what would be really cool is if I can turn my 4th axis on the build I'm currently working on into a lathe at some point. Not sure if it's feasible.

    Seems like alot of work to keep the manual capability. I wish I knew more about Arduino. I plan to learn some for a 3d printer project I will be doing soon.

    Anyhoo, just giving a shout out to say that I'm a fan and thanks for sharing!



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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Quote Originally Posted by NIC 77 View Post
    Seems like alot of work to keep the manual capability. I wish I knew more about Arduino. I plan to learn some for a 3d printer project I will be doing soon.
    Developing the program was absolutely a ton of work.... but once that's out of the way the actual hardware wasn't too difficult or costly.
    Cheers.



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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    I'm sure the knowledge you've gained with the programming will also come in handy on future projects.

    Again, Great work!



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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Wow... Now this is really neat. From what I am gathering, you have essentially wired the Step and direction into both pulse generator you are using and also the Arduino pins. I did not see any diodes to block signals directionally. And, then you simply use the Step/Dir COMMON as the switched leg via relays to dictate which "control" moves the machine ?

    I'd love to put this on my Denford Orac. Have you shared the Arduino Sketch for this or is it for sale ?

    Well thought out project !

    Chris L


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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Quote Originally Posted by datac View Post
    Wow... Now this is really neat. From what I am gathering, you have essentially wired the Step and direction into both pulse generator you are using and also the Arduino pins. I did not see any diodes to block signals directionally. And, then you simply use the Step/Dir COMMON as the switched leg via relays to dictate which "control" moves the machine ?
    Correct! My original build didn't include the relay and it caused all kinds of trouble. Being a mechanical guy it took me a while to figure out the relay for motor ground was a key ingredient.

    Quote Originally Posted by datac View Post
    I'd love to put this on my Denford Orac. Have you shared the Arduino Sketch for this or is it for sale ?
    I almost posted the sketch but decided to give the program one last look with respect to safety (ie - make sure my variables for motion can't overflow and cause sporadic moves, etc). This could take some time but should be available by end of year (PM me if you want to take a look now). Not selling –> open source.

    In theory this approach can be added to any existing CNC machine by adding your handwheels back on with some rotary encoders attached. And the handwheels are positioned anywhere as they are not mechanically connected - could even be mini handwheels on a handheld pendent if you want (an Arduino powered MPG). BUT I’m NOT saying my current Arduino program can work with anything but my specific build and components. It would take a bit of work to modify it for other builds and possibly a lot of work if not using clearpath servos.



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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    I am curious now as to what really would be different about the use of the clearpaths, especially if they claim to be Step/Dir driven and you are using a common Step/Dir pulse generator as in the case of the ESS ?

    Nonetheless, Indeed, I would love to play with the code so far. I have had some time on my hands to finally explore the Arduino in general, so far, assembling a test bench of grbl and also putting together one of the rotary table "indexer" projects. I'm just venturing into Arduino Sketches, so I would surely be interested. I will PM you....

    My Denford of course was a full on CNC machine originally, and made in an era of very good quality, so I lucked out there. My axis motors had already been mounted like yours are now, and the machine has very good ball screws. But, there has never been a good way of manually moving the machine as there is no front protruding X axis lead screw, and the only possible way to hand wheel the Z would be to put one on the way left or right end of the machine (ala Sherline) which would be inconvenient for its size.

    A friend of mine has a newer CNC lathe (brand escapes me) that similarly has LIVE pulse generators as X/Z hand wheels. What surprised me was that he can actually turn the hand wheels WHILE Running a tool path and yet the machine continues on. I believe there are two modes of this.... One where the machine control recognizes the manual move (even if just an accidental hand wheel bump) and recalculates to proceed with the original path based off of the original program zero point, and the other where the control recalculates the tool path to run on the newly adjusted position to finish the job. This second mode I understand to allow the operator to make a fine adjustment while under way.

    Your method would suit my needs just fine.



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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Quote Originally Posted by datac View Post
    I am curious now as to what really would be different about the use of the clearpaths, especially if they claim to be Step/Dir driven and you are using a common Step/Dir pulse generator as in the case of the ESS ?
    With respect to the ESS and CNC control you can absolutely simply swap the motors without issue - I've done this on my CNC router (changed from stepper to servo) and it is a drop in replacement. As for the Arduino control... likely not so easy. My algorithm for motion from the rotary encoders on the handwheel is a bit crude and takes advantage of the clearpath RAS function to smooth out the steps I'm throwing at it into a nice smooth profile. There's likely a better way to handle this motion in the code which would then work with steppers but I'm not going to pursue it. My next step in this project will be to move to a slightly more powerful controller like the Arduino Duo or a Teensy. The main reason is that the Uno only has 2 interrupt pins and I really need 4 (2 per encoder) for the best performance. Unfortunately the Clearpath libraries are only written for the Uno so I need to address this first.



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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Awesome project Wado,

    Just a question, do you feel that you are missing the tactile feedback from having a mechanical link on the saddle and cross slide wheels? How do you detect potential problems such as chatter or other cutting tip feedback?

    Also, would love the source code once you take a final look at it. I want to build a similar lathe in the future and would ideally port the code to a TI microcontroller.

    Made 2 Hack on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/made2hack


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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Quote Originally Posted by made2hack View Post
    Awesome project Wado,

    Just a question, do you feel that you are missing the tactile feedback from having a mechanical link on the saddle and cross slide wheels? How do you detect potential problems such as chatter or other cutting tip feedback?

    Also, would love the source code once you take a final look at it. I want to build a similar lathe in the future and would ideally port the code to a TI microcontroller.
    Good question but a tough one to answer. This conversion has simply improved the performance of this lathe so much that it's tough to tell if I've lost the feedback or the conversion has simply removed it - it's like a new machine! Using a cutoff tool is the biggest improvement but this is likely due to replacing the poor cross slide design with a solid tool post mount (known weak component of the G0602 lathe). Second biggest improvement is I no longer need to lock the carriage down when facing off the part - the motor just holds the carriage position.

    With hands on the manual controls I can definitely still feel vibrations and the tool making the cut but it's void of any resistance on the wheels when increasing speed (creating a deeper cut). I realized very quickly that this aspect could be a bit dangerous as if I bump the z axis hand wheel with my hip/hand and it rotates 1/4 turn it will drive the motor into the part a 1/4" without thinking twice but with the original mechanical setup, although it would do the same thing if I hit the hand wheel with enough force, typically a light bump would stop the motion prior to crash.

    When touching off the part in either axis I can easily position the tool to under a couple thou (same as the original mechanical setup) but this is a combination of tactile feedback, sound, and vision. I just ran down and made an experiment on this.... even with my eyes closed I can touch off very accurately but sound is the leading indicator. So time for some ear plugs - still same result - sound leads. Music cranked up with earplugs, ok now it's only tactile feedback and I can definitely feel the tool and can match the accuracy to a couple thou without an issue. I'd say overall it's removed about 50% of the original lathe tactile feedback which was from the mechanical connections. This was kinda interesting - I'm amazed at how much influence sound has and will definitely keep the volume turned down when doing fussy work next time.

    Ah the code... will post eventually but currently I'm off on a tangent to include threading with the Arduino - still targeting end of year to upload.



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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Mach4 with the pokeys would be ideal for this. Check out this control:

    https://cnc4pc.com/catalog/product/v.../category/166/

    It has everythng, it includes the encoder for the spindle and all.

    Arturo Duncan
    http://cnc4pc.com



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    Default Re: CNC Lathe Conversion +Retaining Manual Control (G0752/G0602), wadeodesign

    Quote Originally Posted by arturod View Post
    Mach4 with the pokeys would be ideal for this. Check out this control:

    https://cnc4pc.com/catalog/product/v.../category/166/

    It has everythng, it includes the encoder for the spindle and all.

    Arturo Duncan
    http://cnc4pc.com
    Hi Arturo. Thanks for the link but I'm not sure this would fit too well as what I've done here is customized a control box to implement a dual controller type system which allows manual control via an Arduino board or full CNC experience with a ESS. I guess the CNC aspect could be handled with your product but the Arduino manual control is very customized to the specific spindle sensor, potentiometer, and Clearpaths which I've spec'ed out. I do like your stuff though and have bought a bare control box from you for my router. Cheers.



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