Picking a desktop mill...


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    Default Picking a desktop mill...

    We are loosing a bridgeport mill at work that isn't used much. But there is occasional need to mill something so I proposed getting a desktop mill and was surprised how well it was received. Main reason for moving out some of the big stuff is space. Now I am trying to figure out what to get. I don't have any milling experience (well, a little but almost none). I need 6" of Y travel and that seems to be the key factor. Considering a Taig CNC with Y axis extension. Or something like the Grizzly G0759. Thinking I need to keep the main cost to around $3000 or the justification will get much more complicated. I realize that tooling can double or more that number but most of our operations are very basic and tooling can be purchased as needed so I don't see an issue with that. My concerns are:

    - size of the Taig table. Some of the parts will be 5 - 6" diameter. Taig mill table being 3.5" wide seems like an issue for solid mounting. Sure I can mount it and I will be cutting mostly plastic and some aluminum so maybe it isn't a real issue?

    - CNC or not? Thinking it would be great to have a small CNC but most of the work is currently manual. This is for an prototype shop so, for example, we might want to mill a hole in a part to run some extra wires through for testing. Haven't figured out how g code would be generated from our CAD system so that is another hurdle. Some say a CNC can be run as a manual mill by using basic commands but I am wondering how easy that will be. That's why I am considering the slightly bigger, manual machine with DRO.

    I need a package that is complete - don't have time to put together a kit or modify a mill beyond something simple like bolting on a Y axis extension kit.

    What's the next step up from the Taig in size for CNC? Seems like the next thing is a big step.

    What are my choices in this price range for a mill with DRO?

    Hoping to get some advice from more experienced folks...

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    Member awerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    I haven't heard about the Y axis extension for the Taig that you mention. Do you have a link for it? Failing that, you might look at Sherline's new "Next Gen" mill, which has travels of 13.65" in X, 11" in Y and 9.38" in Z. 5800/5810 NexGen Mill - Sherline Products It certainly won't take as heavy a cut as a Bridgeport, but it's plenty heavy-duty enough for cutting aluminum. The table isn't very wide, but if you need more space for fixturing it's easy enough to mount a plate to it for that.

    CNC gives you the ability to do a lot more than the simple straight linear cuts possible on a manual mill, but you can get these mills in either manual, DRO-equipped, CNC-ready, or CNC equipped versions. Generating G-code from your CAD system requires a separate CAM program, if CAM functionality isn't built into it. The choice of program depends on the sorts of things you're trying to make, but running a CAM program is generally not as difficult as CAD modeling - if you can do the latter, the former won't be too hard. As a prototype shop, you'll find all sorts of uses for a small CNC mill; once you have the ability to go directly from a drawing to a part. But you can do simple tasks, like cutting diagonal lines, by typing directional commands into the Manual Data Input (MDI) panel; this works better than hand-cranking for everyone but the occasional Etch-a-Sketch master.

    You can order a complete system from Sherline (or from me, if you want a discount). They also have a wide range of accessories, which you can get pre-assorted in various packages or a la carte. It's a lot easier than buying something like a G0759 and launching into a CNC retrofitting process. Please let me know if you have any questions about these products.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    If you're downsizing from a bridgeport to a table mill I would advise against a Sherline or Taig. I realize its mostly plastic and aluminum, but working to the very extents of your machines table travels is always going to give you trouble. I would suggest a G0704 for that price range, which you could find already CNC'ed locally if you're lucky, or just begin with a brand new one and decide to convert to CNC after you determine you need it. That way most of your tooling will already fit (assuming your bridgeport is R8) and you will stay well within your budget while not starting with an anemic machine.

    Cheers,

    C

    https://www.instagram.com/dubmfg/


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    Gold Member MichaelHenry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    If you can increase the budget a bit (tough, I know) you might consider a Tormach 440:

    Personal CNC Mill - Tormach PCNC 440

    The controller (PathPilot) is a customised version of LinuxCNC and includes a bunch of conversational wizards that can be really handy for quick and dirty programs for facing, pocketing, hole drilling/tapping, etc.

    Prices start at $5k for a mostly stripped down system.



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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    The Tormach is very nice but for their most basic model it is $7k. Yes, you can get the main part for $5k but it doesn't include the controller or much of anything but the main unit. And that puts it outside my limit. It's got to be under $5k which isn't really true for this. Not that I wouldn't like to have the it. I am really leaning to the G0759 which appears to be a G0704 with DRO.



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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    Andrew,

    For the Taig extension just google it. I don't have a link handy but you can get them several places. They are just a few spacers.

    I looked at the Sherline you mentioned. When I toured their factory about 6 months ago that model was mentioned but not ready yet. But it still has a very narrow table. The pictures I found were with a wider table mounted on top which I thought was deceiving, er, marketing... The y axis travel amount is nice but my impression (which is based on limited info) is an extension of an already limited ridgitdy unit. In any case it doesn't meet the budget.



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    Gold Member MichaelHenry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim27 View Post
    The Tormach is very nice but for their most basic model it is $7k. Yes, you can get the main part for $5k but it doesn't include the controller or much of anything but the main unit. And that puts it outside my limit. It's got to be under $5k which isn't really true for this. Not that I wouldn't like to have the it. I am really leaning to the G0759 which appears to be a G0704 with DRO.
    I understand, just wanted to give you other options in case the budget freed up a bit.

    For what it's worth, a friend uses a CNC-d Taig and is very happy with it. I started with manual Sherline machines, but grew unhappy with the slow material removal rates for anything harder than aluminum and plastic. That probably won't as much of a problem for you. One nice thing about Sherline is that virtually any part for their mills or lathes is still available and generally at pretty affordable prices plus they have a ton of accessories. If I had it to do over (with my experience level today) I'd probably have started with the Taig tools before moving up to larger tools.



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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    Bridgeport to Taig I think would be a pretty disappointing step even in plastic and aluminum.

    Definitely go to the G0704 or even one of the new Precision Matthews units. I think the PM united have a much better quality finish on the dovetails then the grizzly models, probably the way I would lean if I were in your shoes.

    Chris

    Sent from my QTAIR7 using Tapatalk



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    Member awerby's Avatar
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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    If what you're mostly interested in is removing metal quickly in straight linear passes, then sure, a manual Bridgeport will work better for you than a CNC Taig. But if you want the ability to produce complicated parts directly from your CAD models, then a little CNC machine will run rings around the old dinosaur. Sure, a large CNC machine will be able to produce bigger parts quicker than a small one, but for the stated budget the choice is between a used Bridgeport or similar knee mill, a new medium-sized manual mill made in China, and a new Taig CNC, made in America and sold with a 2-year warranty and support.

    [FONT=Verdana]Andrew Werby[/FONT]
    [URL="http://www.computersculpture.com/"]Website[/URL]


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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    Going from a Bridgeport to a Taig would be a huge disappointment no matter if the Taig were CNC'd or not. Sure a CNC'd Taig could do a lot, but the shear size difference and cutting capability would be a huge letdown for anyone using a Taig in place of a Bridgeport. The Bridgeport being replaced is a manual machine. As such, the users will either need a manual capable machine to replace it, or will face a fairly steep learning curve before they can make chips on the replacement. The Taig has no manual capabilities once CNC'd. This is a case where it may be beneficial to have something like a G0759 to start with and then convert it in stages to CNC. The first step could be to add the steppers, but retain the stock lead screws and handles so that it can still be used manually. This would be especially true if the Bridgeport is currently being used by multiple people in the company. It kind of sounds that way to me. I don't usually recommend a CNC machine with handles, but in this case it may be appropriate. Once the user have a chance to experience the machine with manual and CNC capabilities, a decision could be made to upgrade to a set of ball screws and eliminate the handles.



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    Member phomann's Avatar
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    Default Re: Picking a desktop mill...

    I wouldn't discount the Taig, if the work fits into the Taig's envelope. They are very robust little machines. My gues is that those that think it is too small probably haven't used one.
    I started out on a CNC Taig some 20 Years ago and have recently purchased a 2nd one.
    I you are mainly cutting plastic, and a bit of aluminum then I'd highly recommenced it.

    I used mine to make the conversion parts for my lager TM20VL mill. The link below has a number of images showing some of the parts produced.
    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/bencht...58266-cnc.html

    Also have a look through the project pages here to see what sort of work I've done on the Taig.
    http://www.homanndesigns.com/info/index.php/projects

    Obviously, if you require a bigger envelope than the Taig will provide,then a larger machine may be the way to go.

    Cheers,

    Peter

    -------------------------------------------------
    Homann Designs - http://www.homanndesigns.com


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