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    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    I did a bit of googling and it looks like welturn came with a card to mod lathe control . I wonder if it was as simple as slipping in a card without having to modify the existing electronics ?
    there isn't much info on it , but the yahoo emco user group may have the info on it
    Yes there is a separate card outside the housing. I ll try to connect pc directly to the lathe, that might do it (but I brlieve that they did something with electronics inside the housing too)


    Edit: no can do on connecting it directly, different ends on the cable...

    Last edited by SharpShooterSer; 06-03-2016 at 08:41 AM.


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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    I ve also connected the optical encoder that is supposed to be functional now, but still no luck. Plus, even the # swap for estop from yesterday didnt change, now I have those dimmed controls once again.
    Obviosly this wont work, and I am really sad about it. So it seems that I have to do a total retrofit with modern electronics, in order to get it working like it should.
    Thanks for your help guys.



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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    Thats a bummer
    It's tough when buying something that is used and theres no history . I can't imagine that the welturn conversion could have been too invasive of an add-on to the lathe . It sounds as though it was just a simple add-on board (could be wrong). If it's at all possible to get it back to original by reversing what has been done then it may be worth it . I thought that I was going to have to butcher mine , but I lucked out that it wasn't modified and Samco was a big help by posting his mods for the linuxcnc . I wouldn't change a thing about it . It runs great and the only thing that I need now - is to finish up my home switches and add my db splitter and a breakout board .

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    Samco, Derstrap, I will try to find some docs that came along with machines, I believe it has some info on what was changed and post it here. Would that help determening what to change in stepconf, or you might guide me through stepconf itself, to make a configuration that might actually work?
    For instance, I cant understand why isnt the optical encoder working?



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    Quote Originally Posted by dertsap View Post
    Thats a bummer
    It's tough when buying something that is used and theres no history . I can't imagine that the welturn conversion could have been too invasive of an add-on to the lathe . It sounds as though it was just a simple add-on board (could be wrong). If it's at all possible to get it back to original by reversing what has been done then it may be worth it . I thought that I was going to have to butcher mine , but I lucked out that it wasn't modified and Samco was a big help by posting his mods for the linuxcnc . I wouldn't change a thing about it . It runs great and the only thing that I need now - is to finish up my home switches and add my db splitter and a breakout board .
    And since this unit has an AC motor, is there a source for a non expensive VFD?



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    Quote Originally Posted by SharpShooterSer View Post
    And since this unit has an AC motor, is there a source for a non expensive VFD?
    Here are the welturn instructions for retrofit. It might help?

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-20160604090312-pdf  


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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    it sounds as though they made the board so that the lathe could be put back to original condition . I suggest following the instructions in reverse (without unplugging anything) then determine if everything will plug in 100% as original . These lathes are built really well so it would probably be best if you can get it back to original . Otherwise I'd consider ripping everything out and start fresh

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    SInce I am not technically capable of doing this, I guess I will drop the project for now. Or at least until I get a modern drivers motors and BOB, and hope that I wont have further problems with setting this up. From something that shouldnt be that hard to achieve, this thing became a nightmare for me.
    Thanks for your help and input fellas.
    Cheers



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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    Quote Originally Posted by SharpShooterSer View Post
    SInce I am not technically capable of doing this, I guess I will drop the project for now. Or at least until I get a modern drivers motors and BOB, and hope that I wont have further problems with setting this up. From something that shouldnt be that hard to achieve, this thing became a nightmare for me.
    Thanks for your help and input fellas.
    Cheers
    Have you ever set up a machine with Mach, Linux or anything else?

    Unfortunately if it is your first time, it will be frustrating. Furthermore if you do a conversion gutting all of the electronics and replace them with items that do the same thing but that you have support on. Also usually production machines have much more robust hardware than the hobbyist stuff.

    If LinuxCNC is new to you and it doesnt seem to make sense, you arent alone. I have been reading and trying to understand it for a little while now. I can get it on my computer and make the machine move but dont know how I did it. Nor how to change distance or direction traveled etc.

    A lazy man does it twice.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastest1 View Post
    Have you ever set up a machine with Mach, Linux or anything else?

    Unfortunately if it is your first time, it will be frustrating. Furthermore if you do a conversion gutting all of the electronics and replace them with items that do the same thing but that you have support on. Also usually production machines have much more robust hardware than the hobbyist stuff.

    If LinuxCNC is new to you and it doesnt seem to make sense, you arent alone. I have been reading and trying to understand it for a little while now. I can get it on my computer and make the machine move but dont know how I did it. Nor how to change distance or direction traveled etc.
    Yes, it is my first time. And its more than frustrating. Reading instructions, watching tutorials and what else but no luck. I didnt expect for it to be plug and play, but this seems to be way out of my league. Without proper help I mean. I suppose getting modern electronics might get everything a bit easy for me, but my faith is fading. I ve invested a lot in this, to find out that it might all be a waste.
    I ve learned manual machining by myself, but as said, this looks like to be out of my league. People I know that operate cnc equipment havent ever encoutered these kind of stuff, they work on large factory made machines and these are out of their scope of knowledge and interest.



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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    I was kinda hoping that with the information provided someone could chip in in what to change in stepconf file, in order to get the axis moving. Everything else seems to be working. And I am still clueless why doesnt the optical encoder send the info on the spidne RPM. But it seems it will remain on just hoping.
    I ve read through the emc2 wizards, how to set something up, but there seem to be too much unknown data for me to enter, and I have no clue where to find them.



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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    Hey man hang in there. Just keep reading and learning about your machine. It may take some time for it all to sink in and that is only as big a deal as you make it. Tinker and learn and don't give up!



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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    We all get it. It is difficult at first. Actually it can be difficult at any time.

    I also understand your friends with CNC experience have no idea what you are up to as they dont fix machines, just operate them. Been there done that.

    Though you have been good about finding manuals etc. If there is any way you can post pictures of your actual machine and electronics, the more the better. People will be able to identify a part or board and possibly help interface with it. I wont even tell you how green I was when I began but lets just say I had a working machine and electronics and had no idea what GCode, MDI, CAD or CAM was. I know a little more now ;-) One of the reasons most of us are trying to tell you to stick with it and the original electronics if possible.

    Also since you have no knowledge of either Mach or LinuxCNC I am not sure if 1 is better. In my case I was more familiar with windows based machines though I am no computer guru, Mach 3 was the first thing I learned to set up. It wasnt easy at first but I got it done. Now after tinkering for a few years I have seen what some can do with LinuxCNC and want to tinker with it too but it is entirely different. I will get it eventually. I am running Linux in 1 of my pc's now. It does seem to take less resources. Quite nice actually.

    A lazy man does it twice.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Fastest1 View Post
    We all get it. It is difficult at first. Actually it can be difficult at any time.

    I also understand your friends with CNC experience have no idea what you are up to as they dont fix machines, just operate them. Been there done that.

    Though you have been good about finding manuals etc. If there is any way you can post pictures of your actual machine and electronics, the more the better. People will be able to identify a part or board and possibly help interface with it. I wont even tell you how green I was when I began but lets just say I had a working machine and electronics and had no idea what GCode, MDI, CAD or CAM was. I know a little more now ;-) One of the reasons most of us are trying to tell you to stick with it and the original electronics if possible.

    Also since you have no knowledge of either Mach or LinuxCNC I am not sure if 1 is better. In my case I was more familiar with windows based machines though I am no computer guru, Mach 3 was the first thing I learned to set up. It wasnt easy at first but I got it done. Now after tinkering for a few years I have seen what some can do with LinuxCNC and want to tinker with it too but it is entirely different. I will get it eventually. I am running Linux in 1 of my pc's now. It does seem to take less resources. Quite nice actually.
    Thanks you for your encouragement gents.
    I will try to open up the back (although I am a bit intimidated to do it) and to take pictures of everything connected there. That might really help us determine what is what. From what I ve read, Mach3 wont work on this cinfiguration. EMC2 might and I would like to make it work like that. I figured its all about getting it right with the configuration at first. Later comes on the cad/cam and actuall machining, which I hope to get done fast.
    I have on order pair of modern steppers drivers and simple bob, but if this works, those will be set up on F1 mill. If not, buthering this lil machine is in order.
    As for shematics, i found online the one that is supposed to be for unmolested 5PC, and I have already posted what has been done by Welturn.
    Thanks again

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-compact-5-pc-pdf   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-20160604090312-pdf  


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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    I'm doubtful that you'd be able to get any other software to work with the welturn board . If you open up the back of your lathe then the add-on board should be easily visible . You should be able to begin tracking the wires from there to determine the difficulty in removing that board and putting the lathe back to original . Pulling that board will be the exact reverse of the installation as pointed out in the instructions

    I agree with the other guys regarding the knowledge and intimidation factors . I'm a trade machinist , not an electronics or software guy and to be honest I despise digging too deep into electronics . I don't have that kind of patience . But I've also built a number of cnc's from the ground up and have retrofit quite a few mills . The knowledge gets easier with time

    BTW if you start pulling wires then take step by step pics (even label wires)so that if things go south then you can at least put the wellsoft board back in so that you can still use the welturn till you decide your next move

    A poet knows no boundary yet he is bound to the boundaries of ones own mind !! ........


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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    And even if you do a retrofit you might be able to use the speed controller or something else. Power supplies, relays and emf line filters come to mind. Generally the electronics are separate to some extent motion control, spindle control and computer.

    Do take lots of pictures and nobody is asking you to do anything to the machine yet so opening the back to investigate can only help. Or as I tell my kids if something doesnt work, why shouldnt I risk fixing it, its broke!

    A lazy man does it twice.


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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    OK, as promised, here are the pictures. As many I could make, but the angles were difficult (place where lathe is located at the moment is hard to reach...long story)

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-c43b0d2e-e939-46c7-9dec-e17063af66a4-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-6a8994c5-85c3-45a1-a1b1-e34642549273-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-325912e0-0646-48c2-913c-1726064c1599-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-603a41db-50b9-4cea-9978-39b0f2522763-jpg  

    Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-ca4be37f-17ba-48d1-b0ec-86541ee06f7c-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-6c290712-068a-4948-9b7c-46efe32c6027-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-37b8d60b-693d-4002-8c4b-3244656f7604-jpg  


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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    and more. I can repost something, a lot of pics here

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-0cc5a4ae-1b11-461f-ab7b-4678e716fcbd-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-6a610ab8-e104-4b03-ad9b-704214dc2419-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-86dc3899-3df8-4e95-9b65-eb92f94cef0e-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-ee9847ca-e011-4f44-ae28-8b8c2f2f579d-jpg  

    Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-fcac6873-9fd2-46cd-ade1-d7b5b9e1590a-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-c9ad81ca-3797-4698-9cb8-54588fe07019-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-ca4be37f-17ba-48d1-b0ec-86541ee06f7c-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-87c02b72-4d8a-4a67-958b-4d2893dc5343-jpg  



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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    ...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-6c290712-068a-4948-9b7c-46efe32c6027-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-5fb662e4-44be-4804-bf0a-3cbc0265a05c-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-fcac6873-9fd2-46cd-ade1-d7b5b9e1590a-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-ee9847ca-e011-4f44-ae28-8b8c2f2f579d-jpg  

    Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-c9ad81ca-3797-4698-9cb8-54588fe07019-jpg   Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill-68b9c7ad-8a13-4e5c-a339-d341a3d9c636-jpg  


  20. #40
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    Default Re: Emco Compact 5 PC and F1 with Welturn/Welmill

    Ok - you have the

    http://www.cnczone.com/forums/attach...8&d=1465225458

    upper circuit board looks to be intact

    Notice the jumpers on mine

    http://electronicsam.com/images/emco...ceanddrive.JPG

    So then - you want to hook the computer printer port directly to the back of the emco 25 pin plug. (no welturn or dongle) (with a good ieee printer 25 pin cable - make sure all the pins pass through and it isn't a serial cable)

    I think this should work then!

    sam



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