Advice for first mill

[jcarver]

Hi everyone,

I've been researching and reading for a while now and I think I'm ready to pull the trigger on my first bench top mill. But before I do I'd like to get some advice and feedback from the people who have actually used these things and know what they are doing.

So high level overview, I'll basically be using it for primarily aluminum machining. Mostly small parts only 2-5". Not a large volume, lets say one piece a day for an estimate. What I'd really like is something pretty durable with decent support for newbie's like me Budget is roughly 5k +/-. I'd really love to get a unit that has an option to upgrade for water cooling or at least blow air on the piece to clear the chips.

These are the ones i'm considering so far?
Taig cnc mill
x2
x3 from somewhere like grizzly, harbor freight etc + conversion

Any other units you guys recommend? Of those options which is better for what i want to do? If I go the conversion path, which companies kit is the best?

Thanks everyone

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[gcofieldd]

Hi everyone,

These are the ones i'm considering so far?
Taig cnc mill
x2
x3 from somewhere like grizzly, harbor freight etc + conversion

Any other units you guys recommend? Of those options which is better for what i want to do? If I go the conversion path, which companies kit is the best?

Thanks everyone

I would look at a G0704 from Grizzly. You may want to get the one with the DRO included if you are not going to CNC it right away. One other thing, bigger is better. If you can afford a bigger mill then get it. I wish I had bought a Rong Fu RF45 and converted it. If I had I would not be already thinking about the next "bigger" mill I want to get. Regardless of the size of the parts you currently want to make, you will eventually want to make something bigger. Also, the cost of a cnc conversion is close between an RF45 and a G0704 if you use steppers, so you will get a much better return on your investment from the RF45 if you want to sell it at some point.

[jcarver]

I've actually been looking at the G0704 a lot yesterday and it rose to the top of my list. Can you tell me more about the RF45? Does Grizzly make it or where can I find it? I wont be leaving it as a manual mill so converting right away.

I saw Dave on here offers a conversion kit for the 704 so I PM'ed him for pricing, otherwise I may go with the Fusion kit.

Can you tell me more about the conversion? Is it basically just these steps? 1. install the kit 2. install stepper motor 3. Add PC and software? Am I missing something?

James

[Alax7]

Agreed on getting something bigger to begin with. It's a lot easier to just machine small parts on a mill with larger travels than needed than needing to machine something larger than your travels. Although the x2 might seem enough for your 2.5" parts, you will quickly realize the 3.5-4" y travel is not enough. I started with an x2 and right away banged my head on it for not doing more research to find atleast an sx2 or something with more travel.

If you don't have the room for anything but an x2 sized mill then its understandable to go with that or if it's simply not in your budget to get anything bigger.

So minimum I would say sx2, which you can extend the travels easily later on. A G0704 is a great compromise and seems like the best overall package for size, travels, cost.

I do think that an x2 is a great little mill to get started with. After you work out all the kinks amd get it milling how you want it, you will have learned great skills to work on your next larger mill. I started with an x2 and have been upgrading little by little for the past year and a half up to the point where it now has more travels than a stock sx2 both in the x,y,z. I'm using sx2 saddle, base, and table, with extended travels. It would've been great to have had the knowledge and skills I do now when I was ready to buy my first mill, but I wouldn't have had it without struggling with the x2 mill to begin with. I happy with how things turned out either way, I found that its been a great stepping stone into the milling and cnc world.

So long story short, if you have the money for it, the space for it, get the largest mill you can get and want because you will easily want to mill parts 2-3 times larger than you initially intended once you get bitten by the cnc bug.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

[harry11733]

The Precision Matthews PM25MV is similar to the G0704 but seems to have some advantages for a CNC conversion. Namely, more room in the base to fit the new parts.

[jcarver]

Right now the 704 has my attention. 19 x 7 for travel, though i cant find the z axis travel.

I did look for the RF45 and most of the ones I found were 220v. The ones that are 110 seem to be a rather off brand that very few people own so I feel like it would be hard to get the community support with them. I could work with the 220v if I absolutely had to, but its just another headache that I wanted to avoid if possible sense steal milling would be minimal if any.

My plan was to get a little one that I can use in my spare space in my home for now. Were planning to move in the next year or so and I'll be looking for a place with a nice large garage or shop to put a full size mill in. I actually have plenty of space for the just about any size mill but budget is more important this time around.

[jcarver]

Harry thanks for that recommendation. That PM25VM looks like a really great option. Basically the same machine but they are tested and certified before leaving the shop and come with a 3 year warranty. Only $350 more. No way I could touch that kind of support or quality from Grizzly and for the $350 thats a great insurance policy for someone who doesn't know much about them.

Could you tell me a little more about why its easy to do the conversion? I didn't really understand what you were saying.

[harry11733]

So, to be clear, I don't currently own this mill. I just went through the same decision that you are going through and decided to buy this mill over the G0704 for two main reasons. It already has a belt drive spindle, which I wanted, and this largely makes up the price difference with the Grizzly, since it saves on having to modify the Grizzly. Second, there is more space under the saddle and table to fit in the larger ball screws if you want a CNC conversion. You still have to do some surgery but it seems that it is considerably less than is required to adapt the G0704. The Titan TM25 mill is the same mill, and you can see some conversions of this mill or the similar TM20 (lacks the belt drive) here, here, here and here.

I also preferred the more traditional design of the column base attachment of this mill compared to the G0704 but I am not sure this makes much practical difference. I would be dubious about any special claims for quality from either supplier. It is what it is.

[jcarver]

Thank you Harry, that's very helpful. I'll go ahead and go with your suggestion and get the one you did. Do you know anyone who makes the conversion kit for it or will it work with the G0704 kits? Like the Fusion kit for example.

Also again I'm pretty new at this so bear with me on the stupid questions lol. What's a good source for some quality stepper motors?

Outside of the mill, conversion kit, motors, and software/pc, what else do I need to get this bad boy up and running?

[harry11733]

Do you know anyone who makes the conversion kit for it or will it work with the G0704 kits? Like the Fusion kit for example.

CruddCNC used the CNCfusion G0704 kit, which apparently worked, although he had a few problems with the fit, since it is a different machine.

I am going to take it slowly. I don't do production work or 3D milling so I don't really need full CNC. Someone said on this forum that making the parts for a CNC conversion is one of the simplest things you can do on a mill and I have come to agree with this. So, I will make sure I can master the basic manual milling techniques first. I will first set it up as a manual mill with a DRO (see here for a low cost option) and then move on to a phase1 conversion (ala Hoss's G0704 plans). I will then convert the Z-axis to a ball screw. At least initially I would just like power on all three axes and a good DRO. When that is done I will think about a full CNC conversion. If I finish the conversion I will make the rest of the parts on the mill itself. The surgery on the castings will have to be done on another, larger mill.

I think the various ball screw kits for Hoss's G0704 conversion will work for this conversion, although I am not absolutely sure about this. I definitely don't plan on turning the ball screws so I will probably check out these kits first.

[photomankc]

Wow, so the PM25-MV has come a long way since I purchased mine a few years back. I would have FAR preferred the new column mounting arrangement to the old way (just like the G0704) and a built in poly-V belt drive and BLDC motor is a nice touch but they still list the speed as 2250RPM. Seems odd.

Anyway they are nice machines and have some additional power beyond the Gizz mill but I'd echo the sentiment that there is no inherent quality advantage to them. Mine had some of the same issues you see on the 0704. KBIC clone Motor controller failed, Z gib was a mess, bent, poor contact and Z slide rocked when the Z locks were set. However the X/Y was great. Square travel as good as I could measure and flat within 0.0005" over the whole table. A couple thou of table rise from the leverage when you crank it out to the ends. I never got the stated 7" travel, even with the way cover removed. But 6.7" was a whole lot better than the 3.8 to 4" of the X2 I had before.

Matt was very good at working to fix issues but availability was an issue back then. I'd have to remind him at times to follow through. I think they got really swamped when these became popular and demand outstripped ability to deliver. Still, it has been a great machine. It eats AL like it's plastic and it can machine steel at a rate that doesn't make me want to slit my wrists from boredom while waiting. Roughing endmills are very useful when working steel. Any time I go back to use the little X2 for something it's amazing how much these mills spoil you. The X2 feels like rats gnawed out the parts in comparison.

[jcarver]

So I pulled the trigger and ordered the PM25MV... Well pre-ordered, which seems to be the only way to get one of those. He said he orderes 100 in at a time and 50 are already spoken for. New stock should be here late February. But until then I will anxiously wait for dave to finish his kit

[photomankc]

You might touch base with ArizonaVideo. I think he makes a kit for the PM20/25 mills.

[jcarver]

That's who I was referring to when I said Dave. He's working on getting that kit squared away.

[harry11733]

That's who I was referring to when I said Dave. He's working on getting that kit squared away.

Look forward to seeing a write up of this. Hope you can include lots of pictures. I assume he has modified the dimensions of the G0704 kit for this machine.

[jcarver]

yes he said some of the parts are the same but all (or most) of the mounts changed. I'll be doing a full write up and hopefully everyone can chime in and help me out where I get stuck sense this is my first time doing this

[wizard]

Right now the 704 has my attention. 19 x 7 for travel, though i cant find the z axis travel.

The 704 is a nice compromise mill that is in a family of similar devices. If you look at the Precision Matthews site someone else mentioned you will find a slightly better variant of you intended to CNC the machine.

I did look for the RF45 and most of the ones I found were 220v. The ones that are 110 seem to be a rather off brand that very few people own so I feel like it would be hard to get the community support with them. I could work with the 220v if I absolutely had to, but its just another headache that I wanted to avoid if possible sense steal milling would be minimal if any.

The voltage the platform runs at has nothing to do with machining steel.

My plan was to get a little one that I can use in my spare space in my home for now.

Weight does become a factor with the RF45, so not knowing what that spare space is getting such a large mill might not be a good idea.

Were planning to move in the next year or so and I'll be looking for a place with a nice large garage or shop to put a full size mill in. I actually have plenty of space for the just about any size mill but budget is more important this time around.

It always pays to look on Craigslist. Paying retail sucks especially if this isn't a long term investment. Get the right Mini mill now and down the road it can pass as a drill press if nothing else when your large mill is acquired. Which brings up a practical matter, if you expect to use the machine manually a quil is advisable to feed the spindle instead of the whole head stock.

[arizonavideo]

Yes the new PM-25 look nice. I have one here. I still need to play with it more but I do like the brushless motor. The table is a fair amount thicker and the CNC kit will be a total bolt on with no milling required.

I might go to a larger bolt for the Y nut they used a M6 which is a little small in my book and a few other things will make the parts harder to make but I have the screws in and a few parts are done. I will have a few kits done before they get the next lot of mills in.

[victorofga]

all machine on that site looking great deal..
he has some new from march... that has 12x26 movement..

[jcarver]

The voltage the platform runs at has nothing to do with machining steel.

The reference to the voltage and the steal was regarding the power of the motor that can be used. Your pretty much limited to a 1.5hp motor on a normal 110v 20a power supply. Buy going up to 220v you can expand motor capacity and mill steal faster, at least that is how I understand it.
The smaller mill with less power could potentially still achieve the same result but likely much slower then most people want.

- - - Updated - - -

Did i mention i'm pretty darn excited to get this under way