SX2 spindle control


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Thread: SX2 spindle control

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    Default SX2 spindle control

    I want to get spindle control working for the Sieg SX2 Mill.
    It has a 500 watt dc motor and a 5v pot controlling the speed.

    I had read that you can replace the pot with a VFD output from an addon board or a breakout board that has it built in.
    For this reason I purchased the C11GS as recommended by cnc4pc.

    However, I'm unsure how to wire it up.
    I have an isolated 12v supply for the board and the instructions say that this must only be connected to the C11GS and nothing else.
    The diagram shows the grounds from the mill and isolated supply will be connected - is this ok ?

    There are also relays for start and reverse, where are these connected ?
    C11GS
    http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11GS-R1_1_USER_MANUAL.pdf

    SX2
    http://macpod.net/misc/sx2_tachomete...tachometer.php

    Has anyone done this conversion on the SX2 - it's quite different to the X2

    Thanks
    Adam

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  2. #2
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    Hello, surprised no responses yet. I'm building up a spindle controller for my SX2 so I have some insights that might help. The macpod website has some good info on the signals that control spindle direction, and you should also search for djbird3's LMS 3900 build thread, as he also made a spindle controller and detailed the connections. I hate to add a disclaimer, but the following is to the best of my knowledge, and until I actually complete my controller, is relying upon the work of others which have successfully demonstrated control. Please read all of it before doing anything. If you are not comfortable and/or it doesn't make sense to you, err on the side of safety and don't take unnecesary risks with your equipment. On the positive side, others have done it, so you should be able to get there too. Edit: The first thing to do is email CNC4PC for additional info, they seem to be very responsive and should be able to give expert advice for obvious reasons.

    In looking at the C11GS, you will need to provide a separate 12 Volts DC supply to connector X1. This is a separate power supply, such as a wall wart. The analog output pin X2 is what goes to the SX2 spindle controller pot P2. P1 of the pot is connected to the 12 volt ground. The SX2 pot is set up for 5 volts, SO YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE TO ADJUST THE VOLTAGE ON THE OUTPUT X2 TO 5V OR LESS BEFORE CONNECTING IT TO P2. Once you set up Mach3 to control the spindle with PWM on pins 14, 16 per the manual, hook a meter up to the output X2 and 12 Volt ground, turn on the 12 Volt supply, and set up Mach3 to control the spindle, and set the output for maximum spindle speed. Adjust the C11GS pot X3 untiul it is safely below 5V. Now, this is where my knowledge gets sparse. Because the SX2 pot is built into the board where the connectors go in, there is no easy way to disconnect the pot pins P2 and P3, so if you connect to those directly you will be feeding the pot in parallel with the SX2 reference voltage. Personally, I would do this: 1) disconnect the main input connector (10 pins) from the pot board. 2) Per macpod's wiring diagram, release the spindle control pin (he shows it as the red wire labelled Analog input from the connector housing. This is a crimp pin with barbs to hold it in the housing, so use a small screwdriver or the proper tool if you have it to get it released 3) plug the connector back into the board 4)Connect the analog output from the C11 X2 to the red wire, and connect the 12 volt ground to the pot P1. With everything connected, you should be able to power everything on and control the spindle speed from Mach 3. AGAIN, PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK THE ANALOG OUTPUT PIN WITH A METER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE VOLTAGE ALWAYS STAYS BELOW 5V ACROSS THE COMMANDED SPINDLE SPEED RANGE BEFORE HOOKING UP TO THE MILL CONTROLLER. IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO MARK THE POT WHERE YOU READ 5V ON THE METER, AND START WITH THE VOLTAGE LOWER. ONCE YOU GE IT CONNECTED TO THE SX2 CONTROLLER, YOU CAN TWEAK THE POT TO MAXIMIZE SPEED, BUT BE CAREFUL. THE SX2 INPUT BE FAIRLY TOLERANT, BUT NO SENSE TAKING CHANCES.

    If you get this working ok, controlling the spindle direction should be much simpler by using the relays to connect the forward and reverse pins to the center ground pin of the 3 pin header. Use one relay to connect forward to ground, the other to connect reverse to ground. The relays are just electronic switches so the worst that can happen is the controls are reversed if you get it backwards.

    Hope this helps, maybe others can chime in too. --md



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    Yes, that's exactly how I thought it should be wired up - Thanks
    The only part I was unsure of was connecting the ground from the isolated 12v to the ground of the SX2 Pot board.
    The 11GS manual states 'WARNING: To keep the output signals optoisolated, these must not have common ground or connections to current with other circuits you are using'
    - Which is a little confusing.

    Arturo from cnc4pc also just came back and told me to connect the grounds as well

    I will be using an isolated 12v to 12v converter to supply the 12v power.
    This can then run from the same PSU as the 5v which is a PC power supply that came with the case I am using.

    As far as the relays go for direction you have output pins 14 & 16.
    I think the following is correct ?

    Set the jumpers to American mode, connect the 12v grounds to relays 1 & 2.
    Connect the SX2 direction pin 1 to relay 1 and pin 3 of the SX2 direction board to relay 2 .

    Just 4 wires are needed from the SX2 board to the 11GS board.
    analog input, ground, pin1/pin3 of the direction connector.

    I am actually swapping out my old ZP5A-INT breakout board for the 11GS to enable spindle control.
    Everything else has been working fine apart from the odd strange reversal of motion during edge detection.
    Hopefully this new board will cure that as well although I have also changed out the motor driver wiring for shielded just in case...
    It's all home made, for now I have kept the original X/Y leadscrews as they are very small on the SX2 Plus Mill, ballscrews are expensive.

    Thanks
    Adam



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    Good to get confirmation. As long as the 12V supply won't be used for anything else on the PC side, the isolation stays the way you want it, with the 12V supply on the mill side. Those isolated DC-DC converters are perfect for this kind of stuff. I think you have the relays correct. The only question I've had for a while is whether the second jumper is necessary. Without anything connected, each the forward/reverse pins are pulled up to 5V through resistors. The mill runs forward by default, and grounding the reverse pin I believe causes the spindle to reverse direction. So it would appear that you don't need to pull the forward pin low? I know that Don (DJBIRD3) didn't use two signals for his implementation. Hre's the truth table:

    FWD REV Spindle motion
    HI HI Spindle clockwise (default)
    HI LO Spindle counter-clockwise (reverse, macpod notes this)
    LO HI Spindle clockwise (forward, macpod notes or implies this)
    LO LO ?? Not documented

    Anway, it should work fine with what you have according to macpod's writeup. Good luck, please post back your sucess once you get it all working! --md



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    Well it won't be any time soon.

    The C11GS arrived today - not good, can't believe something like this would get sent out.
    I have emailed Arturo from cnc4pc and I'm waiting a response.

    I'm sure it won't be a problem to get it changed out but that means another couple of weeks wait !
    Also the 12v DC-DC converter hasn't even arrived yet - from a UK supplier

    This is how the C11GS looked out of the packaging !

    Adam

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails SX2 spindle control-c11gs_20140219-jpg   SX2 spindle control-c11gs_20140219-3-jpg  
    Last edited by siegsc4; 02-19-2014 at 04:54 PM.


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    that looks exactly like they had to replace the IC, and someone was VERY new to rework. They were using too much flux and too much heat.



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    OK,

    The new board arrived, so I managed to get to work connecting it all up.

    At first I had the output relays set in US mode and wired as follows:
    Relay 1, clockwise, Relay 2 counter clockwise

    Both relays were connected to the analog ground and the normally open connected to the 2 pin connector in the mill for direction.
    This worked but there was an issue.
    The C11GS board analog output has 0.5v as it's lowest voltage, this means when the spindle is off, it still rotates at 20 or so rpm - not good.

    To get around this, I fed the 0.5v to 5v analog through a 1k resistor, then to the red wire, motor side in the mill control box.
    Relay 1 was then fed with the analog ground and the normally closed connection was connected through a 100ohm resistor to the same wire as above going to the mill control box.
    Relay 2 was fed with the analog ground and the normally open connection went to the reverse contact on the 2 pin connector in the mill.
    The relays were set to INT mode.

    The voltage was reset to 5v with 2500rpm command sent from mach3.

    This way, when the spindle is off, 0.04 volts is fed to the motor controller instead of the 0.5 volts and it doesn't spin !
    When it is on you get the normal voltage.
    With Relay 1 and 2 on, you get normal voltage plus a ground connected to the reverse pin in the mill.

    An M3 S2500 command then sets the spindle fwd/2500 rpm
    An M4 S2500 command then sets the spindle rev/2500 rpm
    As you mentioned, the mill runs forwards by default so no need to connect the forward pin to ground

    I also added a switch on the POT control box of the mill.
    I cut the red wire that sends the 0-5v to the motor and connected the motor side to the common pin of the switch.
    The 2 other pins then connect to the pot side of the red wire and the 0-5v analog output from the C11GS
    The ground from the analog output was simply soldered to the ground of the back of the pot board - I left the original ground connected.

    This way I can switch between mach3 control and manual control.
    In short, all you need for spindle control on the SX2 is the C11GS breakout board, 3 wires to the spindle control box and an optional manual over ride switch.

    Thanks to Arturo from CNC4PC for getting the replacement board out to me.
    One other thing, the connectors on this board are the easiest I have ever used, much better than the old screw type !

    Cheers
    Adam



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    Adam, congrats on getting it up and running. --md



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    Default Re: SX2 spindle control

    Quote Originally Posted by mduckett View Post
    Hello, surprised no responses yet. I'm building up a spindle controller for my SX2 so I have some insights that might help. The macpod website has some good info on the signals that control spindle direction, and you should also search for djbird3's LMS 3900 build thread, as he also made a spindle controller and detailed the connections. I hate to add a disclaimer, but the following is to the best of my knowledge, and until I actually complete my controller, is relying upon the work of others which have successfully demonstrated control. Please read all of it before doing anything. If you are not comfortable and/or it doesn't make sense to you, err on the side of safety and don't take unnecesary risks with your equipment. On the positive side, others have done it, so you should be able to get there too. Edit: The first thing to do is email CNC4PC for additional info, they seem to be very responsive and should be able to give expert advice for obvious reasons.

    In looking at the C11GS, you will need to provide a separate 12 Volts DC supply to connector X1. This is a separate power supply, such as a wall wart. The analog output pin X2 is what goes to the SX2 spindle controller pot P2. P1 of the pot is connected to the 12 volt ground. The SX2 pot is set up for 5 volts, SO YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE TO ADJUST THE VOLTAGE ON THE OUTPUT X2 TO 5V OR LESS BEFORE CONNECTING IT TO P2. Once you set up Mach3 to control the spindle with PWM on pins 14, 16 per the manual, hook a meter up to the output X2 and 12 Volt ground, turn on the 12 Volt supply, and set up Mach3 to control the spindle, and set the output for maximum spindle speed. Adjust the C11GS pot X3 untiul it is safely below 5V. Now, this is where my knowledge gets sparse. Because the SX2 pot is built into the board where the connectors go in, there is no easy way to disconnect the pot pins P2 and P3, so if you connect to those directly you will be feeding the pot in parallel with the SX2 reference voltage. Personally, I would do this: 1) disconnect the main input connector (10 pins) from the pot board. 2) Per macpod's wiring diagram, release the spindle control pin (he shows it as the red wire labelled Analog input from the connector housing. This is a crimp pin with barbs to hold it in the housing, so use a small screwdriver or the proper tool if you have it to get it released 3) plug the connector back into the board 4)Connect the analog output from the C11 X2 to the red wire, and connect the 12 volt ground to the pot P1. With everything connected, you should be able to power everything on and control the spindle speed from Mach 3. AGAIN, PLEASE DOUBLE CHECK THE ANALOG OUTPUT PIN WITH A METER TO MAKE SURE THAT THE VOLTAGE ALWAYS STAYS BELOW 5V ACROSS THE COMMANDED SPINDLE SPEED RANGE BEFORE HOOKING UP TO THE MILL CONTROLLER. IT WOULD BE A GOOD IDEA TO MARK THE POT WHERE YOU READ 5V ON THE METER, AND START WITH THE VOLTAGE LOWER. ONCE YOU GE IT CONNECTED TO THE SX2 CONTROLLER, YOU CAN TWEAK THE POT TO MAXIMIZE SPEED, BUT BE CAREFUL. THE SX2 INPUT BE FAIRLY TOLERANT, BUT NO SENSE TAKING CHANCES.

    If you get this working ok, controlling the spindle direction should be much simpler by using the relays to connect the forward and reverse pins to the center ground pin of the 3 pin header. Use one relay to connect forward to ground, the other to connect reverse to ground. The relays are just electronic switches so the worst that can happen is the controls are reversed if you get it backwards.

    Hope this helps, maybe others can chime in too. --md
    Do you set-up Mach 3 to control the spindle with PWM or Step /Dir Motor? The documentation in the C11GS manual is contradicts itself. It says to check the Sep/Dir Motor box, but then in the diagram below it shows the PWM box being checked.
    Also, does anyone know if there a specific pin that controls the C11GS analog output? I know Pin 14 and 16 control the high voltage relays, but should there or is there a specific mach Pin that controls the analog output to control the POT on your DC motor's control board?



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    Default Re: SX2 spindle control

    Is there a schematic for wiring this as i would like to do the same....


    Quote Originally Posted by jbar View Post
    Do you set-up Mach 3 to control the spindle with PWM or Step /Dir Motor? The documentation in the C11GS manual is contradicts itself. It says to check the Sep/Dir Motor box, but then in the diagram below it shows the PWM box being checked.
    Also, does anyone know if there a specific pin that controls the C11GS analog output? I know Pin 14 and 16 control the high voltage relays, but should there or is there a specific mach Pin that controls the analog output to control the POT on your DC motor's control board?




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    Default Re: SX2 spindle control

    I am finalising a Sieg SX2P spindle controller that works with linuxCNC. I now need to design a board small enough to fit in the standard potentiometer box - but that shouldn't be too difficult.

    The controller uses code from macpod.net to obtain the spindle speed, and this is displayed on a 16*2 i2c display, using the cable and plugs/sockets normally used for an external tacho.

    A user module for linuxCNC sends speed control over serial usb to the controller and receives the tacho speed.

    The controller uses a DAC to generate a 0-5V signal that replaces the pot that normally controls speed. Feedback from the tacho is used to refine the actual speed to keep it close to the command speed.

    A pot can be used to override linuxCNC commands, and linuxCNC can override the pot.

    Parts: Chinese Arduino nano. MCP4725 i2c DAC. Hitachi-compatible i2c backlit lcd display. XH headers and plugs. 7-way aviation plug and socket. A few scraps of wire.

    TC



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    Default Re: SX2 spindle control

    Quote Originally Posted by frogandspanner View Post
    I am finalising a Sieg SX2P spindle controller that works with linuxCNC. I now need to design a board small enough to fit in the standard potentiometer box - but that shouldn't be too difficult.

    The controller uses code from macpod.net to obtain the spindle speed, and this is displayed on a 16*2 i2c display, using the cable and plugs/sockets normally used for an external tacho.

    A user module for linuxCNC sends speed control over serial usb to the controller and receives the tacho speed.

    The controller uses a DAC to generate a 0-5V signal that replaces the pot that normally controls speed. Feedback from the tacho is used to refine the actual speed to keep it close to the command speed.

    A pot can be used to override linuxCNC commands, and linuxCNC can override the pot.

    Parts: Chinese Arduino nano. MCP4725 i2c DAC. Hitachi-compatible i2c backlit lcd display. XH headers and plugs. 7-way aviation plug and socket. A few scraps of wire.

    TC
    Would this simplify the process. It plugs directly into the stock spindle controller and gives you a run/stop, direction, and speed 0-10v signal inputs.
    https://littlemachineshop.com/produc...ory=2122081963
    I am using one on my lathe, works great.



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