Flood Coolant... how to wire it?


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Thread: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

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    Default Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    Hey guys,

    Please excuse my lack of understanding in wiring of this nature but i have a few questions for setting up my flood coolant to my C11G board.

    i am using a 12vdc pump and 12vdc relay and 12v power supply to run it. my question is how to activate that relay from the C11G BOB. I don't know enough about circuitry in this area and don't want to hurt anything.

    so if someone could explain it as it would come from the C11G board to the relay pins that would be very much appreciated!

    Thanks in advance!

    Chris

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    A relay is just a switch. Two of the contacts will go in series with your power supply and pump and switch the pump on and off. The other two contacts will power the coil that turns the relay switch on and off, and those will hook up to your breakout board.

    The datasheet for your relay (check the manufacturer's website) will show you which pin is which. The application notes for your breakout board should show you how to wire a relay.

    You should have a normally open relay for this project, or a DPST relay that has both normally open and normally closed contacts. Normally open means that the switch by default is not connected (if it were the other way around the pump would run when your breakout board was unpowered).



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    thank you for the information. perhaps i was not as clear as i should have been in my question asking. I have wired numerous relays in the automotive business, my main question was regarding the voltage differences between the breakout boards 5vdc and the relays 12vdc, and what is required to change the 5vdc voltage to 12vdc to operate the relays contactors. I am drawing up a schematic which should clarify my question better.. will upload shortly..

    Thanks again!

    Chris



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    Quote Originally Posted by lcvette View Post
    thank you for the information. perhaps i was not as clear as i should have been in my question asking. I have wired numerous relays in the automotive business, my main question was regarding the voltage differences between the breakout boards 5vdc and the relays 12vdc, and what is required to change the 5vdc voltage to 12vdc to operate the relays contactors. I am drawing up a schematic which should clarify my question better.. will upload shortly..
    It would be easier to get a relay with a 5v coil that can switch 12v than to build a voltage booster that supplies enough current for the relay.



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    that is the answer i was looking for.. time to try and find one now..lol

    Thanks man!

    Chris



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    or a small 12v wall wort power supply....... chances are you have one already....

    Also check the relay some are 5 -30V



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    Fixxit,

    here are the specs on the relay i purchased:

    Coil voltage: 12v
    Pull-in voltage: 6v
    Coil resistance: 66 ohms
    Nominal current: 160 mA
    Drop-out voltage: 3.6v
    spst contacts: 30A @ 12VDC

    so i am guessing i need an additional 1-volt to pull the contactor in to energize the relay and turn on the coolant pump.. probably not gonna work or maybe hurt the C11G board if i try it?

    Thoughts?

    Chris



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    Hi Chris ,

    use one of the relays on the C11G beakout board to switch the 12v supply to the 12V relay coil ( automotive relay ?)


    a diode can be connected across the 12v relay coil to reduce the arcing
    when the breakout boards relay switches off

    John

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-pump-circuit-jpg  


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    John,

    Thanks for the idea, however i am planning on using those relays to control larger relays which will control the spindle direction. Otherwise that would have been the first direction i headed in to turn on the pump. I have been pounding away on a schematic for my system and will be posting it up soon so anyone can mark it up if they see that i am going about things the wrong way. I hope to finish it before heading home this evening and will post it up.

    THanks!

    Chris



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    ok, here is the schematic i drew up, it isn't 100% finished but i gotta head out for now. let me know what you guys think!

    Chris

    C11G wiring schematic



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    HI Chris ,

    If you don't want to make your own board with a transistor and 2 resistors
    to switch the relay , use a C37 relay board

    how are you controlling the two relays that switch the motor armature connections ?

    when the motor is running and the relay is switched off
    the motor is shorted .
    as the motor acts as a generator until it stops
    both the motor and relay can be damaged without a resistor in circuit
    to limit the current


    John

    PS if you use two pole relays to control the motor direction
    you can add a braking resistor , about 33 ohms 10 or 20W depending on the motor size

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-part-circuit-added-relay-board-jpg   Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-c37r1b-jpg   Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-dynamic-brake-switching-jpg  
    Last edited by john-100; 01-20-2012 at 08:20 AM.


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    John, the relay board is an awesome idea, can't believe I never saw those on on their website. I just looked st the motor specs for the coolant pump and it draws 4amps, do you think I could get by without the secondary relay?

    I like the braking idea with the spindle motor configuration! The motor relays will be controlled by the two built in relays on the c11g board.

    I woke up this morning and of course realized that I still needed some way to manually turn the motor on and off and control direction. I have to give that some thought now, if you have any ideas, your insights are greatly appreciated!

    I will be at the shop shortly to try and sort that out.

    Thank you for your help!



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    Hi Chris ,

    I think I'd use the secondry relay as the relay has to cope with
    the high inrush of current as you switch on and the arc as you switch off the pump
    the small relay may not last very long

    I've had a look at the KB electronics manual
    they show a relay circuit ensure the motor can only be connected
    at a zero speed setting by shorting two small terminal links I1 and I2

    using a 4 pole 3 way switch like the one used on the mini lathes and mills
    you can have manual control of the motor direction and protect the speed control and motor

    more poles on the manual / cnc control switch will be needed


    John

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-dynamic-brake-jpg  


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    Putting relays between the motor and controller is an incredibly bad idea - at some point, perhaps sooner, perhaps later, you WILL blow up the controller, and probably the relays as well, by accidentally disconnecting the motor while it's running. All it takes is a momentary loss of power, or a Mach3 "oops", and there will be a bang and a lot of smoke. Use the relay to enable the controller, by switching the AC power, and leave the direction change as a manual switch, and NEVER flip it when the motor is powered.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    John,

    I found that in the back of the manual...

    WARNING! Do not disconnect and reconnect the motor armature with the AC line applied or catastrophic
    failure will result. See Section 13.2.

    13.2 Armature Switching and Dynamic Braking – If the armature is to be disconnected and reconnected with the AC power applied, wire a relay (or contactor) and a brake resistor (RB) in the armature circuit. The Inhibit Circuit must be simultaneously activated when braking. Wire a double pole double throw (DPDT) mechanically ganged switch to the Inhibit Terminals and the relay (or contactor) coil, as shown in Figure 20. The resistance and wattage of RB must be chosen according to braking requirements. When the switch is in the “Brake” position, the relay is deenergized and allows the motor voltage, via the N.C. contact, to be dissipated through RB and dynamically brake the motor. Simultaneously, the Inhibit is activated and the control output is electronically “extinguished”, which eliminates arcing.
    When the switch is in the “Run” position, the N.C. contact opens, the N. O. contact closes, the Inhibit is deactivated, and the motor begins to accelerate (according to the setting of the ACCEL Trimpot) to the Main
    Speed Potentiometer setting.

    WARNING! The Inhibit Circuit (Terminals “I1” and “I2”) is never to be used as a Safety Disconnect since it is not fail-safe. Use only the AC line for this purpose.
    Along with this detail:



    It's beginning to go beyond my knowledge of electronics and wiring at this point so i am going to try and outline everything in my schematic again so i can get a handle on it and will repost!

    Thanks!

    Chris



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    Quote Originally Posted by HimyKabibble View Post
    Putting relays between the motor and controller is an incredibly bad idea - at some point, perhaps sooner, perhaps later, you WILL blow up the controller, and probably the relays as well, by accidentally disconnecting the motor while it's running. All it takes is a momentary loss of power, or a Mach3 "oops", and there will be a bang and a lot of smoke. Use the relay to enable the controller, by switching the AC power, and leave the direction change as a manual switch, and NEVER flip it when the motor is powered.

    Regards,
    Ray L.
    HimyKabibble,

    As listed above that is exactly what the manual stated but it offers the ability to use the inhibit switch to accomodate for this (I think) if I am reading the instructions correctly. perhaps you can take a look at that and let me know if my thinking is correct?

    Thanks,

    Chris



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    After reading and re-reading the manual, would it be safe(r) to put a relay on the AC line in and once that has been de-energized have the motor polarity switching occur? and once the switching has taken place have the AC line relay energized sending power to the speed control board and starting the motor back up? and how would that wiring look if that is a viable option?.......... going to try and wrap my head around that now.



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    How often do you expect the NEED to run the motor in reverse? I can count the number of times I've had to do it on the fingers of one hand. But turning the motor on and off you'll need to do many times in the course of running almost every program. So why not keep it simple, and safe, and use a relay to turn the motor on and off, and leave the reverse as a manual operation? Almost no chance of blowing anything up that way.

    Regards,
    Ray L.



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    The hope is/was to be able to do rigid tapping through CNC control which would require the control to be able to reverse the spindle direction. But it is beyond my determination to figure it out right now so it will simply be one direction for the time being until i get everything else up and running.....



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    Hi Chris ,

    thats not easy , not being able to switch direction at any speed

    do you have any encoder for mach 3 to measure the spindle speed and direction ?

    the attached circuit is for a manual control only ,
    but you need the cnc control to be able copy it
    start the motor at zero speed , ramp up and then down down to stop before ,starting again in reverse

    John

    update , the relay needs to connect the resistor after the forward reverse switch see second diagram

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-kbm-control-jpg   Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-kbm-control-corrected-version-jpg  
    Last edited by john-100; 01-20-2012 at 04:01 PM. Reason: add corrected circuit


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Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

Flood Coolant... how to wire it?