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    Also.. new development, the motor that is on its way is a Permanent Magnet motor... sooo.. perhaps that helps?

    Chris



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    Gold Member john-100's Avatar
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    Hi Chris ,

    in that case you can connect either of the -f or I2 terminals
    to the C11G analogue ground terminal


    john



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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    and ... yet another thread that veers off into another direction where the title is left unresolved ... arrrgghhhh !!!

    Was there ever a resolution to wiring the C11G BoB for a SSR ---> 110v outlet ?



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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MiniSoCalCNC View Post
    and ... yet another thread that veers off into another direction where the title is left unresolved ... arrrgghhhh !!!

    Was there ever a resolution to wiring the C11G BoB for a SSR ---> 110v outlet ?
    Old thread but I'll chime in - The C11G on-board relays are good to switch AC or DC. Mechanical relays don't care, as long as the load is under the rated current. The C11G's mechanical relays are good for up to 10A at 125VAC per the product manual. Unless you're switching a load greater than 8-10 amps, use the on-board relay and save a few bucks. You most likely have 110V in your control box anyhow feeding your AC/DC power supplies.

    If you're switching a high current load greater than 8-10A, then simply use a free 5V output on the C11G into the SSR's DC control side. Most SSR's will accept a 5V control signal, so you're good to go. Be sure to set your ports and pins configuration accordingly for your desired normally open or normally closed configuration (active low or active high in Mach for example). For the output side of the SSR, you'd simply have the 120V hot wire come into the SSR as pin 1, and your load on pin 2. When your 5V DC goes high, the SSR closes and passes 120V to your load. The common wire for the 120V bypasses the SSR and goes straight to your load, as does the AC ground. Pretty straightforward.

    Input or Control Side of SSR (Be sure to use an SSR rated for 5VDC input)
    Positive Terminal = 5V Positive from C11G Output (Pins 2-9 on C11G)
    Negative Terminal = the 5V Negative or common wired to Pins 2-9 on C11G

    Output Side of SSR (Be sure to use an SSR rated for your current load)
    Pin 1 = Source 120VAC hot wire (use caution and unplug AC source when wiring this up)
    Pin 2 = your load's hot wire, or the hot wire into an AC plug if that's your goal . Pin 2 will receive 120VAC when the 5V output goes high.



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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    Mike,

    Epic reply brother - thank you ... just the type of thoughtful detail a newb like me needs. Pretty much nailed what Im after and where Im stuck. I have elected for the Solid State Relay approach. My SSR is 3-32v Input side ... 24v-380VAC. I have a remote On/Off rocker switch in my circuit as an added twist to the standard arrangement - but pretty straight forward.

    My SSR in middle and Coolant power outlet wired in over to the Left.


    The 110v side is pretty well sorted .. where Im hung up is on the C11G [ C11GR rev 9.xx to be exact ] ... Going from the C11GR to the input side of the relay - one would think would now merely be a trivial matter - but so help me the documentation for this is just mind boggling sparse or non existent. Several of the diagrams and solutions Ive seen appear to me to be using the pins for the 4th axis ? Id really NOT like to do that. Do I seriously need to rob pin outputs from the 4th Axis to have Mach3 control coolant power / on / off ? COM is jumpered on my BoB as 5v+

    Here's a snippet of a diagram I have been using to model my Control Cabinet after ... with C11GR manual page side by side ...



    So ... where i keep getting stuck is .. how would using the pins of the COM/5v+ that is "between" Pin 8 and Pin 9 in combination with PIN 9 ... effect my later use of say 4th axis stepper driver connection to PINs 8, common and 9 to a stepper driver ... and these connections for flood coolant? Seems they cant share these PINs right? [ I know this sounds super dumb-newbish ]

    The docs about useage of my currently unused PINs [ 1, 14, 16, 17 ] leaves me scratching my head wondering how and when they can be best utilized ...


    With there being a 5v GND pin between PINs 16 & 17 ... is it possible to set this BoB up to use that GND - wired to the Negative [ PIN4 ] of the SSR and PIn 14 on the C11GR as the 5v+ going to the SSR on [ PIN 3 ] + positive?

    Or do I just need to give up on the notion of leaving PINs 8, Common [ 5v+ ] and PIN 9 open for future use of 4th Axis - and wire it up for coolant?


    To further complicate this discussion and add another twist .. If im understanding some of your reply regarding using one of the C11G's 3 onbaord relays .. I could technically run 110v power IN to one of the relay connections, and run 110V OUT via the NO side of the relay to the 110v wall outlet Ive wired in? Strapping 110v to this BoB freaks me out - if Im interpreting that part of your reply correctly.

    That said it has me wondering If I could some how use one of the 3 relays [ or the one I will not use for Spindle Control ] - as a relay to ... switch my other relay :-) ????

    I feel like Im super close to finalizing this thing - theres just two or three loose ends where Im confused and this is one ...

    Current status of Box ...




    Hoping to be detailed here in this posting to help others looking for these answers as Ive spent literally 3 days googling and searching this forum for these answers, which astounds me its not readily avail out there in either sample diagram or thread posting ... after I get this sorted Im going to make a sample Diagram and post in here and my build thread... something thats post 2007 - lol. Perhaps Im just dumb and bought an ancient board and should have gotten something more up to date ? I dunno ... seems like a pretty NICE BoB - just wish it had a more newb'ish friendly manual and forum of support.

    Thanks for any and all help ...



    Quote Originally Posted by mikegiraud View Post
    Old thread but I'll chime in - The C11G on-board relays are good to switch AC or DC. Mechanical relays don't care, as long as the load is under the rated current. The C11G's mechanical relays are good for up to 10A at 125VAC per the product manual. Unless you're switching a load greater than 8-10 amps, use the on-board relay and save a few bucks. You most likely have 110V in your control box anyhow feeding your AC/DC power supplies.

    If you're switching a high current load greater than 8-10A, then simply use a free 5V output on the C11G into the SSR's DC control side. Most SSR's will accept a 5V control signal, so you're good to go. Be sure to set your ports and pins configuration accordingly for your desired normally open or normally closed configuration (active low or active high in Mach for example). For the output side of the SSR, you'd simply have the 120V hot wire come into the SSR as pin 1, and your load on pin 2. When your 5V DC goes high, the SSR closes and passes 120V to your load. The common wire for the 120V bypasses the SSR and goes straight to your load, as does the AC ground. Pretty straightforward.

    Input or Control Side of SSR (Be sure to use an SSR rated for 5VDC input)
    Positive Terminal = 5V Positive from C11G Output (Pins 2-9 on C11G)
    Negative Terminal = the 5V Negative or common wired to Pins 2-9 on C11G

    Output Side of SSR (Be sure to use an SSR rated for your current load)
    Pin 1 = Source 120VAC hot wire (use caution and unplug AC source when wiring this up)
    Pin 2 = your load's hot wire, or the hot wire into an AC plug if that's your goal . Pin 2 will receive 120VAC when the 5V output goes high.


    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-2017-12-26_0832-jpg   Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-2017-12-26_0837-jpg   Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-20171219_091257-jpg   Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-20171222_232939-jpg  



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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    if you use pins 2 to 9 to provide the drive for 4 stepper drivers, you only have 4 more outputs

    pin 14 to provide the VFD analogue control and

    relays1 & 2 controlled by pins 14 & 16 - see VFD mode jumper settings -
    for example
    US mode
    PWM on = RLY 1 on
    PWM & REV on = RLY 2 on


    and a 3rd relay that can be controlled by pin 1 or 17 depending on jumper setting

    so the question is how many of the on board relays do you want to use and how ???

    if for instance relay 3 is controlled by pin 17


    you could use pin 1 for your SSR

    depending on how you have set the COMMON terminal for your stepper drivers
    you will need to connect the SSR in one of 2 ways

    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-ssr-block-diagram-c11g-jpg

    John


    PS
    if you do not need to reverse the spindle
    by using the international jumper setting

    pin 16 that controls relay 2
    could be used to control your coolant pump

    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-int-mode-reuse-relay-2-pin-16-a

    Last edited by john-100; 12-26-2017 at 03:44 PM. Reason: add example of US mode for relays 1 & 2


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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    John,

    Awesome post - reply - MANY thanks sir.

    Just when I thought I was about to get away with this solution - simple and easy ... now theres a whole nother wrinkle - LOL.

    OK so more details for you ... My C11GR BoB is currently jumpered for my stepper drivers so that COM on 2-9 pins is 5v+

    Relays 1-3 ... In my mind at the moment- I had Relays 1 & 2 accounted for to handle Spindle Control - but that is one of the last 2-3 wrinkles Ive yet to work out. I was planning on doing more homework on exactly how to use the C11GR to manage Spindle Control over to my KBMM-125 motor driver. I had made some assumptions after reading the manual sections pertaining to it - that Id need to use relays 1 & 2 and supply 12v Power to the BoB [ 12v power has been run and connected ] - and that Id essentially just be "replacing the potentiometer" - essentially. That may be a very naive and over simplistic assessment on my part - so far thats been the entire process. Me over simplifying my understanding only to dive in and uncover the intricacies.

    That said ... appears I need ot first sort out the relays usage - then come back to see what spare pins on the outputs I actually "may" have left over. I had not put together until your post - that PINs 14 - 16 - 17 or 1 were tied to the relays use or controlled by them - however it should be stated. Now I better understand their correlation. You also edited and posted a subsequent image of US vs. Int'l jumpering for the relays 1 and 2 - which at the first 5 blushes - still has me head scratching a bit. Need to get my dome around that too.

    Thanks so much for the help and the cool diagrams my good man. 1 step forward 2 steps back for my learning

    More to follow.


    Quote Originally Posted by john-100 View Post
    if you use pins 2 to 9 to provide the drive for 4 stepper drivers, you only have 4 more outputs

    pin 14 to provide the VFD analogue control and

    relays1 & 2 controlled by pins 14 & 16 - see VFD mode jumper settings -
    for example
    US mode
    PWM on = RLY 1 on
    PWM & REV on = RLY 2 on


    and a 3rd relay that can be controlled by pin 1 or 17 depending on jumper setting

    so the question is how many of the on board relays do you want to use and how ???

    if for instance relay 3 is controlled by pin 17


    you could use pin 1 for your SSR

    depending on how you have set the COMMON terminal for your stepper drivers
    you will need to connect the SSR in one of 2 ways



    John


    PS
    if you do not need to reverse the spindle
    by using the international jumper setting

    pin 16 that controls relay 2
    could be used to control your coolant pump





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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    Reading your post most literally - in the P.S. - Would I need to run the card in the Int'l Mode [ Im in USA for clarification ] in order to get Spindle to reverse with Mach ?

    I was making the relay use assumptions based upon this diagram,



    but had not yet got my head round the US/INT'L jumpers - as for me - the manual in the C11GR is cryptic. Jumped not jumped? uhhh ok. So does that mean if in USA use jumped ... on USA pins and what on int'l ? - remove the jumper entirely or move it somewhere to a set of pins [ mystery to me ] ...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-c11gsr2_and_kb120-jpg  


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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    looking at the C11G + KB120 wiring diagram

    only relay 1 is connected to terminals I1 & I2 on the KB120

    with no PWM input from pin 14 relay1's N/C contact connects the I1 & I2 terminals on the KB120 ensuring there is no drive to the motor

    when there is a PWM signal relay 1's N/C contacts open and the analogue voltage from the C11G sets the motor speed

    jumpers
    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-c11g-mode-jumpers-jpg

    C11G & KB120 PDF diagram
    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-c11gsr2-kb120-pdf

    so you can use the International jumper setting to free relay 2 / pin 16




    the relay 2 is needed if you use a VFD and want to be able to reverse the motor as in this diagram

    C11G & VFD PDF diagram
    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-c11gs-huanyang-vfd-pdf

    John



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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    Good Morning John, [ its still morning here ]

    Thank you again for your excellent reply. Apologies for being so dense in this area .

    So a couple more points of clarification for me if you will indulge.

    1. In order to reverse my motor via Mach 3 - I will require to be running a VFD vs. the KBMM-125 drive ? In other words - in the absence of me using a VFD - reversing the spindle motor with Mach 3 control is not an option ?


    2. What are the functions of terminals I1 & I2 on the KBB-120/KBMM-125 - im not actually clear on their actual purpose in this scenario ... my current understanding is they are as described in manual an inhibit switch, however; Im a tad confused if they are being implemented as a DC-Tach Generator - my gut says no on the DC Tach Gen aspect - but the manual details have me guessing. With you comments above about the Relay 1 shutting off the motor in the absence of PWN signal - logic tells me "inhibit Switch", but Ive been wrong on so much to date - want to be sure.

    3. If I need not be troubled with attempting to reverse the motor because I am not currently using a VFD - then much of this fuss over open avail pins and relays is for naught [ and still may be ] as i have open avail PINs/Power etc due to that.

    4. For a moment - lets assume all THREE Relays are to be occupied for use. Relay 1/2 for above discussed spindle control ... Relay 3 for some other component yet to be discussed/installed and controlled via jumper to PIN 17.
    A- would this then leave PIN 1 and the GRND right next to it avail somehow to use as the switch for the SSR ?


    And lastly, I thought this was going to get me to the next step but the circuity image on the upper left just confuses me as I just dont know what all that means ... High / Low I/p ? I am currently jumpered so that COM on pins 2-9 = 5v+



    This is where Im confused on the drawing you so kindly created and attached



    Sorry for this not making much sense and I much appreciate all your input and assistance !

    Steve

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-ssr-block-diagram-c11g-jpg   Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-2017-12-27_0834-jpg  


  11. #47
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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    Hi Steve

    the C11G part internal diagram is taken from page 10 of the manual

    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-c11g-r9_user_manual-pdf

    the C11G board uses a number of 74ACT245 buffer IC's that contain 8 buffers

    the diagram shows 1 of 8 identical circuits - one for each PC printer port pins 2 to 9

    each pin is connected to 2 buffers - one drives the LED indicator and the other goes to one of the green terminals (2 to 9)

    the common to the SSR is the same as you have set as your common to your stepper driver input


    using the first diagram

    so if you have the jumper for the common +5V going to your stepper driver +step & + direction inputs
    then you connect the +5V common to the SSR terminal 3 (+in)

    so the SSR terminal 4 (- in) goes to the C11G output
    when the output goes low current flows from the common +5V through the SSR's input LED and then ground via the C11G's output terminal switching on the relay

    version for outputs 1 ,14 ,16 or 17
    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-c11g-outputs-1-14-16-17-ssr

    if you use printer port pin 1
    then when pin 1 is LOW = GND the SSR will be ON

    when pin 1 goes HIGH - +5V the SSR relay goes OFF



    John

    PS
    once I have re read the various point I will add more


    PPS

    from this web site - Variable speed controls - The Warco
    this shows how a control board from KB engineering works

    Flood Coolant... how to wire it?-warco-wm180-kblc-control-board-jpg

    when the control voltage between terminals P2 & I2 increases it slowly charges the capacitor C101 via the ACCEL preset potentiometer
    the voltage across C101 controls the motor speed

    when the speed control potentiometer is turned down (anti-clockwise) C101 is quickly discharged via D1 so the speed is rapidly reduced
    when terminals I1 & I2 are short circuited
    C101 is shorted so the speed control voltage is zero and the motor's DC supply is OFF

    to reverse the motor , you need to stop the motor before you reverse the motor connections and re start the speed control - you will need to add a 2 pole relay to reverse the motor connections - the tricky part is ensuring there is a delay so the motor has stopped before the reversed DC supply is applied

    Last edited by john-100; 12-27-2017 at 01:13 PM. Reason: Add PPS


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    Default Re: Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

    Ok - many thanks - that clears that up nicely. I suspected as much but - guessing with electricity is never a good thing.

    Yes ... as you describe here in quotes is how Im currently set:

    using the first diagram

    so if you have the jumper for the common +5V going to your stepper driver +step & + direction inputs
    then you connect the +5V common to the SSR terminal 3 (+in)

    so the SSR terminal 4 (- in) goes to the C11G output
    when the output goes low current flows from the common +5V through the SSR's input LED and then ground via the C11G's output terminal switching on the relay

    version for outputs 1 ,14 ,16 or 17




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Flood Coolant... how to wire it?

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