Basic Wiring Questions for VFD

[mactec54]

Not sure but would not think you would know him.

I have made a mistake in which I posted this on another thread and though it was in here but you are missing a big chunk of the puzzle. I am converting to a VFD / spindle and before this was being controlled by a SuperPID thus the reason for a C10 board. The PID was converting the PWM so I am sorry I really thought that was posted. I got a little confused because the PID board only turned on and off the spindle and for some reason I could never get it to work with PWM control.
I am going to purchase the C11g which I hope is a direct bolt up replacement and I wire it up so I can tighty up the panel and not use a bunch of relays etc. Stay tuned I am sure I will have more questions.

If he does some videos, I would know him.

Yes, that board should work, but very poor information on the PWM setup, you will need a 12v power supply for that to work, so you may still have some problems moving forward

[RufusToad]

If he does some videos, I would know him.

Yes, that board should work, but very poor information on the PWM setup, you will need a 12v power supply for that to work, so you may still have some problems moving forward

Got just a first name and I will tell you??

Hallelujah, after a long time of learning and scratching my head, I finally got it done!! It's just hotwired until my new board comes but with some of your help and lots of persistence, I can now control my new spindle with Mach. Still a little confused about a few things but I will learn later...

Question
Not sure I understand why I need 12v for that board (see attachment)? Can I use the 10v output on the VFD to power the new board if I need to?

[mactec54]

Got just a first name and I will tell you??

Hallelujah, after a long time of learning and scratching my head, I finally got it done!! It's just hotwired until my new board comes but with some of your help and lots of persistence, I can now control my new spindle with Mach. Still a little confused about a few things but I will learn later...

Question
Not sure I understand why I need 12v for that board (see attachment)? Can I use the 10v output on the VFD to power the new board if I need to?

Yes, you could try the 10v from the VFD Drive, it may be enough, normally the PWM converter needs a little more voltage to give you the correct Analog output,0-10v so if the output is lower than say 9.8v you may need the 12v

[mactec54]

Got just a first name and I will tell you??

Hallelujah, after a long time of learning and scratching my head, I finally got it done!! It's just hotwired until my new board comes but with some of your help and lots of persistence, I can now control my new spindle with Mach. Still a little confused about a few things but I will learn later...

Question
Not sure I understand why I need 12v for that board (see attachment)? Can I use the 10v output on the VFD to power the new board if I need to?

The 5v you show is just for the Optos on the Breakout Board this has nothing to do with the PWM circuit

[RufusToad]

Perfect. I believe I understand what you're suggesting. I am doing a spindle break in right now (6hrs) and I'm using 5v for the PWM to VFD so fingers crossed this will be adequate. Board comes Tuesday so I shall see.

[mactec54]

Perfect. I believe I understand what you're suggesting. I am doing a spindle break in right now (6hrs) and I'm using 5v for the PWM to VFD so fingers crossed this will be adequate. Board comes Tuesday so I shall see.

What spindle do you have that needs a spindle break in, they have sealed Bearing, there is nothing to break in.

It is in the C11G manual so go through each section

[RufusToad]

Ugra Spindle. They specifically have a break in procedure for their spindles.

[mactec54]

Ugra Spindle. They specifically have a break in procedure for their spindles.

They are no different than any other spindle just more money, a low speed, run though at the minimum speed won't hurt anything.

Just make sure you have the VFD Drive Parameters set correct, or you can do some serious damage.

[RufusToad]

BReak in done. I sure hope I have all parameters set correctly. I have been through it several times now.
Struggling to get a full 5v out of Mach and at full speed I am only showing 570hz and it should be 600hz

[mactec54]

BReak in done. I sure hope I have all parameters set correctly. I have been through it several times now.
Struggling to get a full 5v out of Mach and at full speed I am only showing 570hz and it should be 600hz

What VFD Drive do you have??

What Parameters have you set and what is the spindle name plate specs.

[RufusToad]

I missed this post for some reason. So I have my new board wired and for the most part set to go but I wanted to ask a beginners question. On this C11G board the top row is for the relays and PWM. According to the docs it says pin 14 activates the relays so my question is, no wire actually goes to pin 14 or 16? Those pin numbers are to tell Mach right? and then when mach activates pin 14 it tells the relay on or off?? Lastly what config is given to Mach for the PWM? When I used the C10 board I gave an actual pin number but that is not present on this board?
A guy does a great video on this board and doesn't mention a word how to configure the darn thing.

http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G-R9_USER_MANUAL.pdf

Also in Mach the only way I could get the spindle to run was to uncheck the PWM box and check the step/dir box? Sorry just a little confused on this one. I can not figure out what to tell mach or where to hook a wire up from the mach signal or does it even get on and at this point I am truly PWM?

I am using a Delta Fans VFD022EL21A VFD and
Ugra Spindle
Voltage: 220V/380V 3 Phase.
Current 9.7A/5.6A
Poles: 4
Frequency: 0~600 Hz
Speed: 0~18000 RPM stepless.
Manufacturer Recommended Working speed: 3000-18000 RPM

[mactec54]

I missed this post for some reason. So I have my new board wired and for the most part set to go but I wanted to ask a beginners question. On this C11G board the top row is for the relays and PWM. According to the docs it says pin 14 activates the relays so my question is, no wire actually goes to pin 14 or 16? Those pin numbers are to tell Mach right? and then when mach activates pin 14 it tells the relay on or off?? Lastly what config is given to Mach for the PWM? When I used the C10 board I gave an actual pin number but that is not present on this board?
A guy does a great video on this board and doesn't mention a word how to configure the darn thing.

http://cnc4pc.com/Tech_Docs/C11G-R9_USER_MANUAL.pdf

Also in Mach the only way I could get the spindle to run was to uncheck the PWM box and check the step/dir box? Sorry just a little confused on this one. I can not figure out what to tell mach or where to hook a wire up from the mach signal or does it even get on and at this point I am truly PWM?

I am using a Delta Fans VFD022EL21A VFD and
Ugra Spindle
Voltage: 220V/380V 3 Phase.
Current 9.7A/5.6A
Poles: 4
Frequency: 0~600 Hz
Speed: 0~18000 RPM stepless.
Manufacturer Recommended Working speed: 3000-18000 RPM

As long as you are getting the 0-10v out of the Board for speed control it does not matter what you are using, step / Dir can be used. this would be unusual though as the board was asking for PWM connection. contact CNC4PC to see if he can answer as to why.

Also, as long as the Relay is working when you use M3 that is all you need for the On / Off control, how you get there does not matter, although it should be better documented which nobody seems to do a good job of.

What I saw in the documents is Pin 1-17 for the relays, so more confusion for you with different Pin numbers, there is most likely a simple answer though. that CNC4PC can help you best with this.

[RufusToad]

Thank you!! You have hit the nail on the head. I will play around with some m3 commands tonight and see if the relays are triggered. It is quite blurry on configuring Mach to this board.

[RufusToad]

Well, I have got it almost all figured out thanks to some of your help, but I am running into 1 issue. I cannot get the output to VFD signal higher than 7.2v with 12v into the board and it is maxed out on the adjuster pod. I adjusted the voltage at MACH full RPM before hooking up VFD and I had 10v at the board and with the VFD's AVI to ACM unplugged but as soon as I put the wire back into the pin it drops to 7.2v so I am little confused on that.
So, for some reason I still need to have the Dir/Step as you can see in the pic and I am wondering what the Step/Dir pulse with is in the plugins config?
I did switch the step/dir back to pwm on the ESS config menu, but it has to be set to step/dir NOT PWM control on the spindle set up menu.

BTW I did put the base Hz down to 100 as you suggested a few weeks ago and the spindle was hunting so I went back to 600. Not really sure what BASE Hz means

[mactec54]

Well, I have got it almost all figured out thanks to some of your help, but I am running into 1 issue. I cannot get the output to VFD signal higher than 7.2v with 12v into the board and it is maxed out on the adjuster pod. I adjusted the voltage at MACH full RPM before hooking up VFD and I had 10v at the board and with the VFD's AVI to ACM unplugged but as soon as I put the wire back into the pin it drops to 7.2v so I am little confused on that.
So, for some reason I still need to have the Dir/Step as you can see in the pic and I am wondering what the Step/Dir pulse with is in the plugins config?
I did switch the step/dir back to pwm on the ESS config menu, but it has to be set to step/dir NOT PWM control on the spindle set up menu.

BTW I did put the base Hz down to 100 as you suggested a few weeks ago and the spindle was hunting so I went back to 600. Not really sure what BASE Hz means

If you are using Step/Dir, the PWM number is not used so your 600 is not doing anything

It is strange that the PWM is not working

You can disable Relays also as that is not used, in motor tuning did you move both sliders to the max for the spindle settings. and set Step pulse to 1 and Dir to 1

[mactec54]

The step Pulse / Dir Pulse is directly proportional to the output voltage, so you may have to change these numbers to get the output voltage you need

Have you set the pulley ratio?

[RufusToad]

I have to back track on that one pic. I posted the wrong one and I just noticed it. sorry !!
I am finally working in PWM and I have no clue how. I have literally worked on this possibly 50 times but for the most part I am set. '

I rescaled my VFD to 7.2v at 100% which I am confused as to why such a large voltage drop but it's working.

So this spindle is 18000 max rpm at 600hz. I am now there after I rescaled the VFD, but I am short on my midpoint voltage, and I only see 3.26v and it should be 3.6v. Is there a way to scale the midpoint voltage in Mach?

I am also noticing a few status errors saying Too Fast For Pully Using Max... Using Max. not really sure what this means either.

[RufusToad]

Hallelujah I think I found it. Its not exact yet but I am getting better.
I had the Pullys at 1 and MIN RPM at 3000 with MAX RPM at 18000 which is correct but I changed that 3000 to 0 and the mid point voltage came up almost .35v. I have no clue that was calculated in the equation, but it seems to be. I'm getting there

[mactec54]

Hallelujah I think I found it. Its not exact yet but I am getting better.
I had the Pullys at 1 and MIN RPM at 3000 with MAX RPM at 18000 which is correct but I changed that 3000 to 0 and the mid point voltage came up almost .35v. I have no clue that was calculated in the equation, but it seems to be. I'm getting there

I was just going to reply to have you check the pulley settings, yes that should be 0 and 18000 ratio 1. some have changed this ratio also to change the voltage output

The voltage coming from the C11G must not be linear and definitely something wrong with the max 10v output.

[dazp1976]

Those C11G boards are stupid and overpriced.
They look like they have a lot of functions but at the end of the day you still only have 12 outputs and 5 in.
Jumpers and relays just confuse things where it's a case of, use pin no* for this or this but you can't do both!.

You would've achieved exactly what you wanted using one of those <£10 5axis bobs you see all over the place.
They're simple to wire and work. I used one for 5 years!.
Those also can go up tp 24v power input for pwm control. With some drives 12v input to the controller is not enough for analog to work properly as you're finding out.