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  1. #1
    Member Tckkgk012283's Avatar
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    Default Spindle upgrade

    I am in the process or researching for a CNC router machine. After a month of research I have concluded the best option for me that gives me the best options and performance at a price I can afford is the Avid Pro in a 4x10 size that will allow me to have a rotary axis, vertical milling capability along with a full 4x8 platform to cut full sheets of material. Adding a vacuum bed will bring my total cost to around 22k. This includes a 8.7 hp spindle and 5 Nema 32 stepper motors. After making my choices for upgrades I discovered the 8.7 spindle only delivers 6.4 hp on single phase 220 volts. I don’t have 3 phase to my house only single phase 220 and it’s cost prohibitive to run 3 phase to my shop. So I am paying an additional 2k for the bigger motor and losing almost 2.5 hp. My question is do you know of any spindles that will fit the AVID pro machine and run on single phase 220 volts power in the 5 to 6 hp range in the 2 to 3k price range?

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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Spindle upgrade

    Hi,
    not to my knowledge.

    The problem with VFDs is they draw a great deal of current and are likely to severely stress your domestic single phase installation.

    Most (reputable) manufacturers regard 2.2kW, about 3 hp, as the practical limit for single phase use, even then a 2.2kW VFD and motor can draw 23A-26A.
    Obviously this problem gets worse as the power levels go up.

    VFDs with outputs in the 5kW (7.5hp) range are all intended to be run form three phase AC input. You can run them on a single phase input but as you've found with significant
    de-rating.

    The problem is that three phase VFDs have fewer DC link capacitors than a single phase unit. If you were prepared to add additional DC link capacitors you'd not have
    to de-rate a three phase VFD. Adding more capacitors sounds easy....but its not. Firstly the capacitors are expensive, at least for good quality ones, and they get charged up
    to 320VDC, if anything goes wrong they go BANG in spectacular fashion.

    Some VFDs, particularly those intended for lift service, often have terminals bought to the outside of the unit direct from the DCLink, and thus represent a much easier proposition to
    add more capacitors. All VFDs have an 'in rush' circuit or mechanism that prevents a huge in-rush current at power-on which would otherwise certainly trip your breaker.
    If you are trying to add more DCLink capacitors you must first ensure that the in-rush circuit will tolerate a doubling or tripling of DCLink capacitance.

    Most of the Chinese VFDs I've ever pulled to bits use PTC (positive temperature coefficient) thermistors to limit the inrush.....and they are clever, cheap and if well chosen reasonably
    reliable. Adding double or triple the DCLink capacitance is asking for trouble with a PTC. In those situations I prefer a high wattage (10W plus) vitreous resistor, typically 20Ohm to 50Ohm.
    Once the capacitors have charged then the resistor needs to be shorted with a relay.....and not a cheap arse relay either, I use an open frame Allan Bradley type, reliability at 50A is
    measured in decades, and cost about $100.

    Almost all VFDs have a pair of terminals for a braking resistor. One terminal goes to the DCLink +ve, and the other through the internal brake IGBT to the -ve DCLink.
    If you don't require or are prepared to forgo the brake resistor you could permanently bridge the braking IGBT and hence the brake terminals on the VFD terminal strip
    are permanently connected to the DCLink and could be used for adding additional DCLink capacitance.

    The bottom line is that if you are prepared to fiddle with your VFD you can avoid having to de-rate it, allow a few hundred for quality parts. If you don't know what an IGBT is
    or what a DCLink capacitor is and what it looks like then it probably not a project you want to undertake without some expert assistance. DCLink capacitors go BANG
    and they'll happily blow you into the middle of next week if you are careless.

    Craig



  3. #3
    Member mactec54's Avatar
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    Default Re: Spindle upgrade

    Quote Originally Posted by Tckkgk012283 View Post
    I am in the process or researching for a CNC router machine. After a month of research I have concluded the best option for me that gives me the best options and performance at a price I can afford is the Avid Pro in a 4x10 size that will allow me to have a rotary axis, vertical milling capability along with a full 4x8 platform to cut full sheets of material. Adding a vacuum bed will bring my total cost to around 22k. This includes a 8.7 hp spindle and 5 Nema 32 stepper motors. After making my choices for upgrades I discovered the 8.7 spindle only delivers 6.4 hp on single phase 220 volts. I don’t have 3 phase to my house only single phase 220 and it’s cost prohibitive to run 3 phase to my shop. So I am paying an additional 2k for the bigger motor and losing almost 2.5 hp. My question is do you know of any spindles that will fit the AVID pro machine and run on single phase 220 volts power in the 5 to 6 hp range in the 2 to 3k price range?
    If you live in NA then your supply voltage is 240v, 8.7Hp is a tall order for a single-phase supply, but right at the extreme max.so you would have problems unless you have a high Amp's supply available, why such a big Hp spindle with a not so robust machine.

    I would say that a 3.2Kw to 3.5Kw spindle would be enough for that machine, I doubt that it is rigid enough for anything else.

    Mactec54


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