5 Axis DIY


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    Default 5 Axis DIY

    I'm currently running a machine that is largely based on the 4'X8' cncrouterparts pro machine. I'd like to add 2 more axis for a 5 axis machine. A few questions:
    1. Any DIY how to's out there that document a build?
    2. Since the CNC machine's physical geometry will vary from machine to machine in a DIY, how does one set-up mach3 or mach4 for this difference. In particular, the 4th and 5th axis that rotate the spindle will have varying sizes.
    3. What is the recommended controller hardware? (currently have Leadshine MX4660 + smoothstepper)?

    Thx



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Before you get too far into the project you might like to investigate 5 axis post processors.You will need one and configuring it may not be the easiest task.I have programmed a 5 axis machine and it isn't super difficult.Typing Gcode soon loses any appeal and the machine will need very careful assembly to make all the axes coincident and perpendicular.



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Hi Adda - yes you need to investigate 5 axis controller software before you do much. Not much around I think that's cheap. All $$$$ if you find some thats cheap tell us. Peter



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Fusion 360 is free.


    The real question is do you really need a 5 axis machine?

    To me, a 5 axis machine is mostly just a novelty item, unless you really need to make parts that can't be made any other way.

    Adding 2 more axis to an existing machine will likely make it far less rigid. So while you may gain some capabilities, it will be less capable for 3 axis work.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2022 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2022.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Hi Gerry - F360 has 5 axis CAM? I'll have a look. Peter



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Yes, it does. But strangely, it can't do continuous 4 axis. Only indexed 4th axis.

    Gerry

    UCCNC 2022 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2022.html

    Mach3 2010 Screenset
    http://www.thecncwoodworker.com/2010.html

    JointCAM - CNC Dovetails & Box Joints
    http://www.g-forcecnc.com/jointcam.html

    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by ger21 View Post
    Fusion 360 is free.
    Far from "free", Fusion 360 5 axis CAM capacity will cost you $200 month/$1600 yearly. Using the traditional strategy of drug dealers everywhere, Autodesk has got us hooked- and now intends to see us pay, pay, pay- forever.



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by adda View Post
    I'm currently running a machine that is largely based on the 4'X8' cncrouterparts pro machine. I'd like to add 2 more axis for a 5 axis machine. A few questions:
    1. Any DIY how to's out there that document a build?
    2. Since the CNC machine's physical geometry will vary from machine to machine in a DIY, how does one set-up mach3 or mach4 for this difference. In particular, the 4th and 5th axis that rotate the spindle will have varying sizes.
    3. What is the recommended controller hardware? (currently have Leadshine MX4660 + smoothstepper)?

    Thx
    For the record, my PRO60120 is 4 axis direct from the factory.

    First question is why would you spend the money to take a 4 foot x 8 foot x 8 INCH machine and turn it into a 5 inch x 5 inch x 5 inch machine?

    You only have 8" clearance under that CNC Router Part / AvidCNC machines gantry. You will lose 3" of that with the gimble mechanism.

    You can drop the 4th and 5th axis down between the cross members for the table but that would not increase your space substantially. Might even reduce it further.

    Then there is the bane of all 8020 based machines, rigidity. The ringing would only increase if you remove that MDF table top. Forget cutting metal in 5 axis.

    Personally, I would recommend a purpose built machine. You can find some crazy good machines for pennies on the dollar these days.

    Start here; https://www.pentamachine.com/

    Last edited by subnoize; 08-15-2022 at 01:02 PM. Reason: typo


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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by subnoize View Post
    First question is why would you spend the money to take a 4 foot x 8 foot x 8 INCH machine and turn it into a 5 inch x 5 inch x 5 inch machine?
    Depending on implementation, I get your Z axis reflection- but not going from feet to inches in X and Y. Please elaborate.



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavigogun View Post
    Depending on implementation, I get your Z axis reflection- but not going from feet to inches in X and Y. Please elaborate.
    You didn't seriously think you were going to get a 4 foot by 8 foot 5 axis workspace did you?

    Here you go, knock yourself out; https://www.amazon.com/Dividing-Harm.../dp/B09V7FS3SN

    Last edited by subnoize; 08-15-2022 at 12:58 PM. Reason: added link to Amazon offering


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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by subnoize View Post
    You didn't seriously think you were going to get- *snip*
    -a serious reply, absent snark or ego? Ya, I actually did. Silly me, I presume good faith- the first time, anyway.

    With a light gantry-style machine of these dimensions featuring 5 axis, I'd reckon machining would be limited to foam, wax, clay, maybe some soft woods and plastics.



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavigogun View Post
    -a serious reply, absent snark or ego? Ya, I actually did. Silly me, I presume good faith- the first time, anyway.

    With a light gantry-style machine of these dimensions featuring 5 axis, I'd reckon machining would be limited to foam, wax, clay, maybe some soft woods and plastics.
    Well, sorry to dash your dreams but think of it this way, I just saved you a lot of trouble and a huge amount of cash.

    You will find there are more than one way to skin a cat though. I actually cut a ton of foam for composite aircraft. Just some creative slicing and keep in mind each "slice" can be about 5 to 6 inch high and some glue and you are set.

    If you need a strong bond for the foam like I do, an ultrasonic foam welder will set you back the price of your CNC but is worth the benefits.

    Never believe what somebody posts in here. I would go get on the phone to AvidCNC and ask them for their input. They are always cooking stuff up and they might beta test a product with you. Never know.

    Last edited by subnoize; 08-15-2022 at 02:56 PM. Reason: typo


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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavigogun View Post
    -a serious reply, absent snark or ego? Ya, I actually did. Silly me, I presume good faith- the first time, anyway.

    With a light gantry-style machine of these dimensions featuring 5 axis, I'd reckon machining would be limited to foam, wax, clay, maybe some soft woods and plastics.
    I also didn't catch this nuance, hanging a 4/5th axis with a spindle on the gantry would stick out too far from the gantry causing an extreme lever that would introduce more ringing and flex into the system. You would have to move very slow to get a smooth surface finish.

    8020 is great stuff. Makes for very cheap CNC machines. Its Achilles hill is the aluminum extrusion has a lot of flex in it. It also has a very long resonance period. It would make a great church bell

    Yeah, my head never went to the two axis hanging off the Z and gantry. Check with AvidCNC. That is beyond my expertise.

    Last edited by subnoize; 08-15-2022 at 03:30 PM.


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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by subnoize View Post
    Well, sorry to dash your dreams but think of it this way, I just saved you a lot of trouble and a huge amount of cash.
    You presume too much about those your correspond with- it isn't attractive, or helpful. Others have explored similar 5 axis avenues built around aluminum extrusions, with a degree of success. Mindful of material constraints, the spindle and BC axis are kept exceedingly light, delivering reasonable speeds (5Axismaker), or burden the assembly with more power (PDJ), limiting speed, as you indicated. I reckoned this circumstance was implicit in the material suggestions made in my previous post.

    Never believe what somebody posts in here.
    There is plenty of good information on this venue; as with anything in life, finding value requires discernment and discrimination.



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavigogun View Post
    You presume too much about those your correspond with- it isn't attractive, or helpful.
    Next time, try to google your topic first. You didn't even bother to educate yourself on the topic before you waltzed in here and started asking silly questions. We are not your personal googlers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mavigogun View Post
    You presume too much about those your correspond with- it isn't attractive, or helpful. Others have explored similar 5 axis avenues built around aluminum extrusions, with a degree of success. Mindful of material constraints, the spindle and BC axis are kept exceedingly light, delivering reasonable speeds (5Axismaker), or burden the assembly with more power (PDJ), limiting speed, as you indicated.
    Yeah, not going to happen. Call AvidCNC.



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Hi,

    Hi Gerry - F360 has 5 axis CAM? I'll have a look. Peter
    The Fusion standard subscription ($500/year) can do indexed 4th axis. If you want genuine rotary fourth axis, five axis, collision avoidance, tool path editing and all the good stuff that comes
    with Fusion Machining Extensions, an additional $1600 year.

    After having done my research, despite the $1600/year price tag, Fusion's 4/5 axis etc is more than competitive with contemporary software. Autodesk came to the party with a $1200/year intro offer, so I got it.
    Still to work out all the details, particularly a 5 axis post for Mach4 but so far so good.

    As has been posted already, four and five axis software is not cheap. Do your homework before you spend big dollars on your 4 & 5 axis hardware only to find you can't afford the CAM software to run it.

    Craig



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by subnoize View Post
    Next time, try to google your topic first.
    Your moniker is apt- I should have taken it as a warning.



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    Do your homework before you spend big dollars on your 4 & 5 axis hardware only to find you can't afford the CAM software to run it.
    Sage advice, that.



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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Hi,

    Sage advice, that.
    Currently my 4th axis owes me about $600USD, an Atlanta Drive right angle drive (off Ebay), a Vertex chuck, chuck spindle and a recycled 5 phase Vexta stepper.
    I will, as funds allow put a 750W Delta servo on it, about $500USD with shipping. Next step is to make a trunnion table, wont cost a lot hopefully, another several hundred perhaps.
    That still leaves the fifth axis for some time down the track.

    The bottom line is the fourth axis (capable of rotary and/or trunnion movement) is going to be around $1200USD, the same as a one year intro subscription to the CAM software. So my advice is hard earned.

    You can, and I have written 4th axis gcode by hand, but it becomes to overwhelming for anything but the simplest of jobs. For any moderately complex part 4/5 axis CAM is pretty much mandatory.

    Craig

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 5 Axis DIY-fourthaxis-jpg  


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    Default Re: 5 Axis DIY

    Quote Originally Posted by joeavaerage View Post
    You can, and I have written 4th axis gcode by hand, but it becomes to overwhelming for anything but the simplest of jobs. For any moderately complex part 4/5 axis CAM is pretty much mandatory.
    When building out a machine of your own making, how do you go about customizing a post processor from your CAM software of choice?



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