Autodesk buys HSMWorks!!?! - Page 2


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  1. #21
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    Ok Jon aside, let's stay on track here please.
    Jon / Jack I ask you to do the same.

    I deleted my account on the HSMWorks forum today. Today Autodesk sales trolls already started posting in our thread about switching to Autodesk product over Solidworks.... I have been on SW platform for many many years, and have 2 seats of premium. Every solid model I have done since 1998...no way will I be solicited to change...

    Original HSMWorks thread is here:
    Autodesk acquisition

    I would hope that some other folks from the HSM forum will come here and continue the discussion about the Autodesk takeover.

    Again - please no bickering about other issues, blogs, etc - This is really the only place left to talk about the subject at hand as Autodesk has ruined the HSM forum with their sales pitches.

    Thanks!



  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBX5 View Post
    Ok Jon aside, let's stay on track here please.
    Jon / Jack I ask you to do the same.

    I deleted my account on the HSMWorks forum today. Today Autodesk sales trolls already started posting in our thread about switching to Autodesk product over Solidworks.... I have been on SW platform for many many years, and have 2 seats of premium. Every solid model I have done since 1998...no way will I be solicited to change...

    Original HSMWorks thread is here:
    Autodesk acquisition

    I would hope that some other folks from the HSM forum will come here and continue the discussion about the Autodesk takeover.

    Again - please no bickering about other issues, blogs, etc - This is really the only place left to talk about the subject at hand as Autodesk has ruined the HSM forum with their sales pitches.

    Thanks!



    it's not the only place.

    you now have a place where many people in the cadcam industry who don't read this forum will see what you start a discussion on and read it. many members of the "cadcam technology leaders" group on linkedin work for autodesk and solidworks. if you want to make an impact on them i've given you the place to do it and I will support what you post. your feelings about autodesk are totally legit. however, know that there are some newer autodesk hires that want to change the status-quo at autodesk and who have many years of experience in the cadcam business. One of them is mike watkins who is a no b.s. guy. he isn't a suit and he has the needed background. i would like to see mike watkins move from plm to the new autodesk cam division. autodesk has also reached out with someone else who recently started following me on twitter. Only time will tell if he's legit as i don't know him but i have already started on the path to placing his feet in the fire via e-mail.

    Last edited by Joesph Jackman; 10-03-2012 at 03:13 PM.


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    The point is - Autodesk is actively trying sales pitches on the HSM forum - after all the guys who invested in the SW / HSM product, they have the nerve to come onto that forum and spew about how great Autodesk is, and how their products can help me... Fine, if I wanted to buy Inventor, Studio Max, or any other Autodesk product, I would do it based on my own research and based on my own needs.... Inappropriate time and place for that...kind of reminds me of a BobCAD salesman... Puke.



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBX5 View Post
    The point is - Autodesk is actively trying sales pitches on the HSM forum - after all the guys who invested in the SW / HSM product, they have the nerve to come onto that forum and spew about how great Autodesk is, and how their products can help me... Fine, if I wanted to buy Inventor, Studio Max, or any other Autodesk product, I would do it based on my own research and based on my own needs.... Inappropriate time and place for that...kind of reminds me of a BobCAD salesman... Puke.
    i certainly get your point and i'm actively trying to get the person who posted that crap from autodesk to realize he's making a very bad move. there is a lot of hatred toward autodesk from long time solidworks users like myself. it's well deserved. autodesk as a company is trying to change. what they have done in the past didn't work and that is why solidworks owns the market. change is always difficult for older established companies like autodesk. you should start a discussion on your feelings about what autodesk is doing on the hsmworks forum. i'm happy to back it up because i agree with you. change doesn't happen when no one who can do something about your legit complaints isn't reading what you have to say.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Joesph Jackman View Post
    i certainly get your point and i'm actively trying to get the person who posted that crap from autodesk to realize he's making a very bad move. there is a lot of hatred toward autodesk from long time solidworks users like myself. it's well deserved. autodesk as a company is trying to change. what they have done in the past didn't work and that is why solidworks owns the market. change is always difficult for older established companies like autodesk. you should start a discussion on your feelings about what autodesk is doing on the hsmworks forum. i'm happy to back it up because i agree with you. change doesn't happen when no one who can do something about your legit complaints isn't reading what you have to say.
    I already deleted my account....I saw what was happening there, and chimed out for good.

    Oh - you mean start a thread here? This thread really covers it all.



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    Quote Originally Posted by MBX5 View Post
    I already deleted my account....I saw what was happening there, and chimed out for good.

    Oh - you mean start a thread here? This thread really covers it all.
    i meant start a discussion on your feelings toward autodesk on the "cadcam technology leaders" group on linkedin where it will be read by members of that group who work for both autodesk and solidworks. the people who can make a difference don't read this forum.



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    the lies and the b.s. on the hsmworks forum are now so deep you need boots to wade through it all. the worst of the b.s. is easily from the former head of north american sales for hsmworks. he makes the autodesk guys look like angels. autodesk would be very smart to continue to allow him to have nothing to do with hsmworks which is what i fully expect to happen.



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    Yes, Joesph Jackman is the notorious JB. He is posting as an alias because he was banned from this forum for threatening the life of the owner. The message from the owner was posted in this forum for you to read. http://www.cnczone.com/forums/produc...tml#post997100

    And someone pointed this out to me recently which is pretty illuminating: http://tinyurl.com/89ufo4x

    Here is a message I posted on the HSMWorks Forum last night in response to a post about strange phone calls from JB.

    ---

    I got a very strange call yesterday. When I asked the caller to identify themselves they refused and hung up. Today I figured out who it was, called and introduced myself. JB just started screaming into the phone at me. He would not let me get a word in edge-ways: blaming me for getting him kicked off this forum, accusing me of being an evil person, etc. I tried to find out exactly why he hated me so much, but he just kept yelling things that made no sense and then abruptly hung up.

    It was the strangest phone call I have ever had; a diatribe so loud and jumbled that I could barely make out the words. How do you deal with that?

    Moving on...

    Obviously the last few days have been very disruptive to me, Al, and our families. I spent four years of my life and heart helping build this product to where a company as big as Autodesk wanted to buy it. HSMXpress was my idea (my baby so to speak). Al and I developed training videos that have helped thousands learn to use HSXpress/HSMWorks.

    Is this event a shock? Yes. Was it a total surprise? Absolutely: I fully expected to be selling HSMWorks for many years to come. We had just completed a full week of intense meetings laying out our plans for the next 12 months and had just reserved a booth for WESTEC 2013 with HSMWork's blessing. I have attached a picture of me and Al at our planning meeting taken September 27. Does this look like two guys that know their HSMWorks Reseller agreement will be given notice of cancellation in four days?

    But I don't take this personally. As disruptive to my business and dreams as this has been, I know who I am, that those people that actually know and love me are still there, and that my value as a person is undiminished by situations decided by others.

    Really -I do not yet know exactly why this happened or what it means to NexGenCAM or our customers. Much will depend on what HSMWorks/Autodesk/Solidworks does. It has only been three days and we are still processing this. But things are getting clearer by the hour.

    I know everyone is concerned (at the least) about what this really means and what to do next: Al and I as much as anyone.

    As we know more we will share it here or on our NexGenCAM facebook page. When we have something tangible to advise we will do it.

    Last edited by hsmworksguy; 10-04-2012 at 12:59 PM.
    Charles Davis
    NexGenCAM, Inc.


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    Charles is my HSMWorks VAR. I can tell you from first hand experience that he is a GREAT person to work with. Any issues that I've had with HSMWorks or even my lack of knowledge of how to use HSMWorks has been delt with by Charles in a professional manner. I work 7 days a week and have always be able to get a responce from him even on Sunday.
    I don't know who John is, but I'm giving my unsolicited experience dealing with Charles.

    Michael Brito

    Last edited by freeflyer; 10-04-2012 at 04:04 PM. Reason: needed a space between words


  10. #30
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    this can be found posted to the "cadcam technology leaders group" on linkedin:

    "I see the market moving to one fully integrated CADCAM system from just one vendor in part because of what you experienced.

    You are always asking for problems when you have separate vendors for CAD and for CAM. A TopSolid CADCAM reseller put this together and it gets more accurate every day that passes:

    TopSolid - The Integrated CAD/CAM/ERP Solution

    Despite what's being said on the HSMWorks forum and elsewhere it should be obvious to anyone objective that HSMWorks was not purchased by Autodesk for its SolidWorks CAM program. Anyone who believes this hasn't been around the CADCAM business very long and is beyond naive.

    There is a ton of B.S. being written on the HSMWorks forum right now. A good deal of the B.S. comes from former HSMWorks resellers who are very angry with me for telling them that this would happen and now having what I said about HSMWorks serious problems come true. The former main HSMWorks North American reseller is as corrupt and dishonest as they come. He use to be a Mastercam reseller in San Diego, CA where I live. When he suddenly upped and left town he burned a bunch of accounts here. One spent $5,000 for a five axis post processor that did nothing but gouge. This is the kind of person HSMWorks management chose to surround themselves with because he was cheap and not an employee and they could save money by not hiring someone qualified to head up sales. HSMWorks was severely underfunded and for years this has hurt development and sales. HSMWorks didn't really have choice based on their very poor management other than to sell out. They were going no where fast.

    I have a pretty good idea what Autodesks intentions are and I'm waiting to see more signs if I'm right. I've made it very clear that I think Autodesk needs a dual stratagy for CAM. Cloud based for Makers and non cloud based for commercial accounts that will not put their ITAR data on a public server and will not pay to rent their software. Until Autodesk makes it clear what their intentions are I would not touch an Autodesk product with a ten foot pole. So far all we have is Autodesk CEO Carl Bass saying that the only way users will be able to run Autodesk applications in a few years is in the cloud. That's not going to fly for any commercial accounts that I deal with!

    I think it's long past time for SolidWorks to have their own CAM."



  11. #31
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    Joseph, I won't join you on your discussion/accusations of HSMworks VARs other than to say I have no dealings w/ Charles. I can say that my VAR was a professional operator and I'm sorry he is getting the short end of the stick along w/ us. From my own perspective, I would take the stance that I assume Charles was a stand-up VAR as well, until I see concrete evidence that he wasn't. Not that any of this matters now as there are no HSMworks VAR's out there right 'now', all of their contracts having been cancled

    Can you comment as to your connection to TopSolid and why your pushing that here?

    As to why AD purchased HSM, mind clearing it up in a bit more direct terms? I guess I'm in the naive camp as I'm not following.

    You've stated in the past that SW should buy CAMworks.. can you offer a reason why they should buy that product and not SolidCAM or DelCAM?

    I'm simply curious, it looks as thought I might be in the market for new CAM software...

    JerryFlyGuy
    The more I know... the more I realize I don't
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  12. #32
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    So Jon,
    Are you saying we should believe your word, the word of an individual terrified of letting anyone anywhere see his work for what ever reason over someone with a proven record of employment, accomplishments and referals from happy customers?

    Gee, I know I am willing to believe a proven liar whose track record goes back for over 15 years rather than the word of Charles. Speaking of businesses and since you say you are owner of one, JBTech as you have claimed many times, can you produce even one referal from a satisfied customer? Can you even produce any evidence of this business? Can you produce a single file from any of these programs you wax eloquent on to show us your word on them should be given any credibility? I thought not. See Jon once again I am helping you to establish credibility by providing an opportunity for you to demonstrate, with evidence, you are credible. Charles can talk the talk AND walk the walk. You? Well lets just leave it at you talk. A lot. Endlessly.



  13. #33
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    "I can say that my VAR was a professional operator and I'm sorry he is getting the short end of the stick along w/ us."

    your var (keith) was by far the best technical var hsmworks had. he's honest and he's a good person that's very technically talented. he's not very good at marketing and he's yet to figure out how much i truly know about hsmworks and just how right i was because he doesn't want to deal with that reality. he's got some idea but he's in denial because what happened to him is pretty ugly and because he wishes to believe that people and CADCAM companies are basically good. i don't share that belief. i warned him repeatedly it would happen and that hsmworks was in bad shape and that they were not being honest with him. keith couldn't and still can't accept this.

    "Can you comment as to your connection to TopSolid and why your pushing that here?"

    i have no connection other than their technical people like me and respect what i have to say... meaning they often agree to implement the few suggestions i have for them. the reason i only have a few is they know what they're doing and i don't have a lot to say about what they need to do... they already know!

    i don't own topsolid, i don't have an extended free license of it. i have known what use to be their master distributor in the the us for many years and i like him and think while he's not perfect he's in the same class as your var keith is. he now works directly for missler software usa. he won't have anything to do with either tim markoski or dave ault (lapuser) because of the games both of them play. i am of the opinion that missler software are great technical developers that are light years ahead of most other cad and cam companies. hsmworks isn't even close. i can back the last statement up with specifics if asked to. most cadcam users aren't able to see what i can see about topsolid. some like hsmworks user greg haisley see it because he has the experience of being screwed by onecnc and by not getting the needed functionality in hsmworks that he knows is in topsolid. greg haisley a very,very sharp guy. most hsmworks users aren't doing the advanced stuff greg does. someone like lapuser (dave ault) has looked at topsolid and can't figure out what the big deal is because he's not very sharp and he's not even close to pushing the limits of even basic cam software. i gave greg haisley a list of all the critical stuff topsolid cadcam 7 is missing and i would do the same for you.

    "As to why AD purchased HSM, mind clearing it up in a bit more direct terms? I guess I'm in the naive camp as I'm not following."

    very complex and i don't have all the answers but i do have a very good idea since the person who made this deal happen at autodesk contacted me on twitter and many e-mails were exchanged over the course of several weeks all relating to cam. the best place for you to ask for the details you want is on the "cadcam technology leaders" group on linkedin. it's not good news. it's already what you suspect. you are one of the few people i'm aware of on the hsmworks forum who has a very good idea that this might not be such a good deal for hsmworks/solidworks users and why. it all has to do with the real reason autodesk purchased hsmworks in the first place. for sure it wasn't to offer a cam product for solidworks. it's all about the cloud.

    "You've stated in the past that SW should buy CAMworks.. can you offer a reason why they should buy that product and not SolidCAM or DelCAM?"

    delcam isn't for sale. solidcam would be for the right amount of money. here i do have a great deal of insight and i can tell you exactly why camworks would be a much better purchase. most of it has nothing to do with the actual product but in the long term relationship that solidworks corp has had with gssl now geometric. again, this isn't the place for the kind of detailed discussion to take place as it's only a matter of time before i'm tossed out of here as what i have to say isn't good for the advertising revenue this forum is based on. "cadcam technology leaders" group on linkedin doesn't have that issue and it's moderated a lot better.

    i have a lot of respect for what you have posted on the hsmworks forum. you are on the right track with your concerns which are very valid despite the nonsense you get from others on that forum who wish to look at this situation with rose colored glasses. the software is just a tool argument being pushed on the hsmworks forum doesn't cut it when one looks at how autodesk has done business over the years and when one really understands the reasons why autodesk purchased hsmworks.

    Last edited by Joesph Jackman; 10-04-2012 at 06:56 PM. Reason: spelling


  14. #34
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    Man....this is all very discouraging....I am not interested in any of the drama for god sake, although it is enlightening... It's all politcs and ball massaging. I just need a CAM system that I am not going to get blatantly screwed over with....

    I know all of them have their drawbacks, their critics, and their fan boys... I will select one based on what I feel works for me....unfortunately I did that with HSMWorks somewhat recently and got bent for it. I really like HSMWorks package. I will deal with the shortcomings, and will like the strong points....but the last thing I want to do is spend another $10k for something that will disappear. I can think of a lot more things to spend $10g's on than freaking software!!! Comon allow a guy to make a return on his investment already.


    I don't have a beef with Autodesk over this...they bought HSMWorks for their own gain - fine... BUT - I have a HUGE problem with their resellers infiltrating the HSMWorks forum and spewing about how their software is a tool, and I may find I like Inventor, blah blah blah... Really great way to pour salt into the wound, you geniuses. I am sure all of your stuff is good software, but I don't want it shoved up my arse - that is not the place for it. Who in their right mind would switch to Inventor and worry about 10+ years of solids to transfer to that system - just to follow the CAM system? I have 2 seats of Solidworks Premium....it works. I love it... Again - why in the hell would I go throw that investment away and switch to Inventor or any other CAD program for that matter???? It is so insulting to have them even attempting to justify it....I got so angry I deleted my account in the HSM forum - although probably a bit premature, but saved me from being banned...

    Anyway...I'm going home to spend time with my kids....enough of this geeky stuff.



  15. #35
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    Guys, lets do this... how about we talk about the issue at hand [AutoDesk buys HSMworks!!!] not all this other 'he said, she said' stuff.

    If we can't discuss the issue at hand w/out bringing in all this other baggage then the thread will simply get closed and/or turfed. I know we can discuss the issue w/ the respect we'd all like to be treated with.

    I'm in this as much as the next guy, I own a seat of HSMworks.. I'm as MAD as the rest of you but name calling and inciting posters isn't going to make it better.

    That being said;

    Joseph, thanks for your insight. At this point I'm just waiting to hear what HSM has to say, I'm pretty sure I know whats coming however I doubt they will be as open and forthright as we'd [the owners at least] like to hear. I'm sure it will be open ended and vague and won't instill the confidence that I'm needing to continue w/ them as a software supplier.

    I feel bad for Keith, Charles and everyone else who has been negativly impacted by this. I work two jobs in addition to trying to start my own fledgling shop and very much doubt I'll be able to get through this in one piece. That means very little to AutoDesk or the big wigs at HSM [I'm sure]. They got their deal and what they wanted while the rest of us pay for it. While it may not mean a whole lot to them, it means a great deal to me and my family. It could very well effect the way my two children grow up if I'm not able to keep my head above water, it's pretty hard to put a price on that.

    JerryFlyGuy
    The more I know... the more I realize I don't
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


  16. #36
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    MBX5.. I'm with ya there.. !

    Actually, I'm gonna take my wife out for a nice supper.. might as well go out in style!

    J

    JerryFlyGuy
    The more I know... the more I realize I don't
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    mbx5, the cadcam business is a dirty and corrupt businesses to its core. one's choices are always fraught with major compromise. it's long past time for much smarter cadcam users who aren't such fanboi idiots and who don't fall for what you and flyguy aren't falling for on the hsmworks forum. most hsmworks users already are falling all over themselves for the usual b.s. and what's worse are the ex hsmworks resellers who live in fantasy land and can't and won't deal with the reality of this situation. the ex hsmworks resellers want to hope for something that doesn't exist and they heap praise on hsmworks who doesn't deserve any praise. as is always the case a cadcam company will sell out their users and their resellers and put their own needs first. that's fine, i'm a big boy but don't expect me to be a pollyanna about cadcam companies and many of their resellers. cadcam companies and many of their resellers are little more than very expensive whores who only care about themselves.

    i respect cadcam users who learn form their mistakes and get serious as a heart attack about their cadcam research. most cadcam users will continue to make the same stupid mistakes over and over again like my buddy Seekins who never learns from his mistakes. freaking sad, man. freaking sad.

    Last edited by Joesph Jackman; 10-04-2012 at 08:06 PM. Reason: more detail


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    double post deleted.



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    Come on Joseph, I know someone as well written and informed such as yourself can post w/out all the harshness to others.. you got it in ya man!

    So where do we as 'use-to-be' HSM owners go? If we're going to stay w/ SolidWorks [which is my current intent]... if you were in our shoes, where would you turn for your CAM software solutions?

    Is 'single window' integrated CAM still the answer?

    JerryFlyGuy
    The more I know... the more I realize I don't
    (Note: The opinions expressed in this post are my own and are not necessarily those of CNCzone and its management)


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    "Joseph, thanks for your insight."

    your were already on the right track without me. don't be fooled by the b.s. being posted on the hsmworks forum. your instincts are correct. stick with them.

    when you and others decide you want to discuss the details of what i like to discuss... stock management, why most chaining is a totally unnecessary, the tools needed for proper multi-part, short run, lights out, machining you know where to find me.



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