Australia Design & Build of Frankenrouter


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Thread: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

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    Default Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Evening all - I have started designing Frankenrouter. It will use up some (hopefully all) of the bits and pieces I have accumulated while building a few machines. Frankie will be 2900mm long and 700mm wide. So its a "long" half sheet machine. Haven't decided on the Z height yet. It will be made from ply and aluminium. Some parts will be ply laminated with aluminium. The gantry maybe cast CSA cement. Early days. So I have blocked out some geometry and details in CAD. Will develop it over the next few weeks... The mantra is make everything myself, spend as less $$$ as possible. I need a long machine for making future gantry moulds. I have been very impressed by the stiffness of the high rail mdf base I made for BrevisHD/YaG on another thread. Since its long I thought it would go up against a wall quite well, use the high rail at the back and a low rail at the front for easy loading of material.... Will use round rails as these are cheaper and I'd like to see what they are about. The Z axis will be square rail as I have that. Plus depending on the length of the gantry I may have square for that. It will be driven by 10:1 N17 steppers using 10mm AT belts from another router I have. The z will be a ballscrew I have.. So I'm breaking down a router called Brevis-3 and mashing it up with surplus parts to create Frankenrouter. Will have to wait for a lightning storm to enliven it... Peter

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frank-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frank-2-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi All - I have been thinking about building parts from laminated ply and aluminium. This would give me geometry flexibility and the ability to mill in various features that an AL tube lacks. So I modelled an AL tube 120x120x5 by 1000mm long and loaded it in combined bending and torsion. I also modelled a ply version and a ply Al laminated version to compare with same outer dims. The AL tube is the stiffest and lightest but the hybrid is 80% the efficiency of the al tube. That's close enough for this purpose. I can either epoxy the aluminium on the outside of the beams or recess it in so the parts are smooth on the outside. Will figure that later. Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-deflection-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-hybrid-beams-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-hybrid-beams-2-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-hybrid-beams-3-jpg  



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi All - I was wondering which way to orient the wall webs. l So I made a quite model. Intuitively I would say vertical and that's what it worked out with. Having them vertical is about twice as stiff as having them horizontal. ie have the webs in the plane of the bending... Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-shear-beam-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Evening all - I have started chucking in the parts I have. I have to measure up a couple of the square rails from Brevis. Its the machine I'm breaking down. I have taken the electronics from Brevis2 and migrated them to YaG the router I'm building at the moment. The other parts go to Frankie. Coming along, need to sort the 2400mm length, maybe have to have a 3m base to get the 2440mm envelope... Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-motor-parts-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-tools-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-electronics-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi All - I have wondered if I should go with aluminium ribs or stay with ply. I'll have to cost that out to decide. I made the ribs a bit taller so I can install the motor "inside" the structure. I'm thinking the saddle to be cast CSA, the z axis plate to be laminated aluminium / ply and the gantry to be ply plated with AL... I have put the 20mm square rails on the z and will measure the other rails I have to see if they are long enough for the gantry. Now I'll have to tune up the envelope and then I can detail it. Peter

    YaG will be building the parts, hopefully get it moving this week... - Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-1-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-yag-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-1-2-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Evening All - I've decide to stay with the 2400mm total overall length and optimise around a sheet size. So it will be 2400mm length and 700-750mm deep. Will do some more work on the model now YaG is running. Plus we now have a border bubble so materials are easier to get, Yeh! Peter



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Do you think it is nessecarry with dual drive on the long axis with 700-750mm depth ?



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Yes Buoyen - I do. Sounds like a marriage.. Peter



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Morning All - YaG is now fully commissioned and running around the shed. So I can get serious designing Frankie. I'll muster all the surplus parts so I can see whats what. Peter



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Afternoon - I started mustering parts and while some epoxy was curing started breaking down Brevis#1 and Brevis#2. It hard to pull apart a perfectly functioning machine. I've been putting it off but now Yag/Scoot is running I don't need Brevis. Took less then 1.5hrs to strip it. Took a few days on and off to build it... So B1 will be sent to the paint shop for sandblast and epoxy paint. Then it will be rebuilt with a reinforced saddle and new antibacklash Z nut. Then it will be sold. I thought about migrating the electronics to Frankie but will start that from scratch I'm going to aim at a high voltage system. B2 I'm going to box as a mechanical kit set and try to sell that too. Need the room in the workshop for the new routers including Frankenrouter. Brevis#1 was designed as a demo machine that can be carted around the timber & machinery shows, but they don't exist now. B#2 was built to trial gearboxes and some electronics, all done now... So now back to the drawing board to develop Frankenrouter more.. Peter

    Break Down 1 - B#2 with its motors removed. These will go to Frankie
    Break Down 2 - B#1 starting the pull down
    Brevis 1 - Prior to pull down with new Z nut and saddle, UC100 etc
    Brevis 2 - B#2 prior to pull down with some surplus parts for Frankie
    fully stripped down - B#1 in pieces, sad but the rust was really annoying and I was loosing sleep over it Interesting all the screws in the timber were rusting in the embedded area even some of the zinc plated ones...

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-break-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-break-2-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-brevis-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-brevis-2-jpg  

    Design & Build of Frankenrouter-fully-stripped-1-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi All - I have done some more work on Frankie. It will be 2400mm long and 700mm wide. The base will be aluminium ply laminate. The rest we shall see. I do have concerns with the cranked gantry but we shall get it along a bit further...Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-2-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frank-3-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi All - I have spoken to BST about long rails. They can deliver 2.4m length but suggest 16 or 20mm as it travels better. So I need to model the 20mm components. Currently the rail is 12mm in the model. Peter



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi All & Sundry - I've been preoccupied getting a gremlin sorted in my big router. I'm over the hurdles now so will plan some time on Frankie.... Peter



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Morning all and Sundry - I've spent a little time re-organising Frankie. I like how the top rails have worked out on Scoot-S2. It gives easy access to the 6 car bolts, makes assembly easy as it sits on top of the gantry so its an easy lift and land. The access to the bottom cars is tricky but using hex bolts allows a spanner vs a key for any checking or snug ups needed. The main assembly is on the bench so that's good. I've been interested in a wide flat gantry section vs mainly square ones to date. This will allow the gantry end cars to bolt inside the gantry vs making some sort of extra, wide part Like I have done on others. The top rails removes the rail and car distance from the forward stack so that's good. The only negative I see is that the bottom Z cars are the ones that cop the most hidings & they are on a small cantilever. Normal work and crashes wear these cars first as they are closest to the tool and are cantilevered. They are the bearings I have noticed that wear fastest on other machines. So I have to make that area strong and stiff.... The test people have sent me the protocol for the modulus test and its very different to usual. I've found out its for cast plastics which require a very high surface finish G6000 which I shan't do. So I'll send them my suggestions and start getting a CF panel together. Will make 2 I think, one short fibre CF the other random billet to compare... They want 6 coupons for the test but I only have enough for 3-4 coupons. Good enough for my purposes....So I think Frankenrouter is on its way....Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-no3-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-z-axis-scoot-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-z-rear-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Evening all - I think I have decided on Frankenrouters configuration. Haven't put much thought into the Z yet but that will come. Now's time to rebuild from base up using the rules of plywood and aluminium laminates and building as much as possible myself. I added the motors and bits to Frankie3 but now will get into Frankie4. Have to change the round linears from 12mm to 20mm and look at my surplus square rails and see if they are long enough for the gantry or I'll cut them for the Z. The current envelope is 2100x660xZ300. I'll drop the Z to 250mm and think about making it longer so it will take a half sheet. 2100 to 2400 doesn't seem to be much of a stretch. Today I got my first shelves mounted on the washroom walls. Its great to get some tools off the floor!! Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-shelves-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-top-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-iso-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-frankie-front-jpg  



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Morning all - I did some numbers on the Z axis plate last night and decided to go for a 50mm thick laminate. Will be laminated plywood with 2mm al skins. This is equivalent to a solid block of 30mm thick aluminium.

    I have a couple of sheets of 2mm so want to use those up. I tried to slot this into FrankieNo3 model but it fell over. I'm using Hiwin car models and there's something not quite right with them. The car faces are not right and I have to use edges to align them. This means they are not robust constraints. So its time to start again with proper sub assemblies and relationships. Onward Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-grrrrrr-2-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-grrrrrr-1-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi All & Sundry Gcoders - I've started rebuilding Frankie. Looking good. I've looked at the square rail I have and it will go on the Z axis. The other axes will be Dia16mm round. I've also started rebuilding Brevis No1 which has some of the features of / for Frankie . A cranked saddle with up facing gantry rails and the belt drives and the motor mounts and belt tensioners.... I found some heavy aluminium angle which I had cut up for a mould many years ago, would be good for the gantry ends. Will measure that up and get it into the model. I spent some time stretching it to 2400mm but it became really long with non standard sheet sizes so I've kept this simple. The aim is to build Frankie, sell it then build a full sheet machine or the robot.... Peter

    I'm thinking of using Scoots Z axis assembly then theres no brain work needed. But then I have to order parts vs build parts.... we'll see

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-behind-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-overall-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-brevis-no1-rebuild-jpg  



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Morning All - This morning I added the aluminium angle parts to the gantry and also used it for the drive brackets. This is all going well. I looked at a top mounted drive for the Z axis and a rear one. I'll go with the rear so the belt clamping has easy access. I like the belts to be vertical so nothing accumulates on them but this one will be up out of the way hopefully. I staggered the gantry back a bit on the bearing plates to gain another 50mm of travel. Now to tidy this a little to define the envelope a bit better then move to the Z axis. Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-drive-bracket-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-drive-bracket-2-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-gantry-drives-1-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-iso-jpg  



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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi All - I have rationalised the envelope, Z is 300mm may bring that back to 250mm. Have to work on the Z drive then it can be detailed.... May use Scoots Z its really stiff and thin... Been sealing various bits in my washroom and have come to the conclusion that vinyl ester is much better to saturate timber with then epoxy. Sets harder and faster and seems to get deeper... It is thinner then the infusion epoxies.. Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Design & Build of Frankenrouter-iso-view-jpg   Design & Build of Frankenrouter-rear-view-jpg  


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    Default Re: Design & Build of Frankenrouter

    Hi Peter,

    Frankie is coming along nicely. The open design with the rear wall raised and the front having clear access is perfect to place the machine up against a wall and still be easy to get the large work pieces onto the bed. With the machine oriented this way, is the long axis considered the X because it is the left/right motion, and the short the Y because it is the front/back motion as seen from where you would be operating the machine? Obviously up and down is still Z.

    Jayne



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