Multicam (AUSTRALIA) Series IIs router - Help needed setting up

[Ross_N]

Awesome Rod
Thanks. I'll check it out. I can see my initial goal of getting the machine cutting is giving way to getting the machine converted, but it seems far less of an uphill battle than I had feared.

[Ross_N]

Here is a router he has tackled. Yours is trivial by comparison!

Wow! You are dead right on that. I need to re-read most of the posts several times just to keep vaguely on track.

[Ross_N]

A quick update...
I now have the PC with ToolPath. I'm yet to power up the spindle, but in keeping with the small steps plan, plotting 2D shapes with a sharpie in place of a cutter is easy enough with DXF's created in Illustrator (splines/arcs etc converted to polylines prior to exporting to DXF). The machine seems to be running well. So the next baby step is to create and run some 3D tool paths. Already though I'm confused with the workflow from CAD package to the table.

I use Solidworks and had imagined using the built in CAM feature to generate tool paths and G-Code which remain parametric with the model. I imagine then I'd import the g-code into ToolPath to convert it to the .rdy format which is accepted by the AXYZ controller. Assuming my g-code contains only valid commands I imagine ToolPath only acting as the converter, changing the .nc to the .rdy format and being the interface to send the file to the table.

My first gap in the basics is the machine setup in Solidworks CAM. The Multicam Toolpath Software and Machine Operators Guide says: "The design package will require a compatible POST processor to create the NC files." and "The controller on the MultiCam machines will accept G-Codes (or NC Codes) delivered through the ToolPath software to the machine. The controller is based on generic Fanuc G-Codes."

Also from the manual:
"The NC importer can handle the following G-codes:
G00 – Rapid Positioning
G01 – Linear Motion
G02 – CW Circular Motion
G03 – CCW Circular Motion
G90 – Absolute Positioning Mode
G91 – Relative or Incremental Positioning Mode"

In Solidworks when defining the CNC machine prior to creating tool paths, there are a bunch of post processors to choose from. Given the above, do I simply go ahead and select any of the Fanuc post processors available in Solidworks CAM (see the attached image highlighted yellow)? Or should I use something else? Of the three options available in SW CAM, why should I choose one over another?

Thanks!

[Ross_N]

I might be speaking too soon, but the Solidworks + AXYZ post processor available for download from Hawk Ridge Systems seems to have done the trick. The files I have run in the air on the router so far seem to be behaving. Thanks Hawk Ridge Systems!

[Ross_N]

Hello again!
I have just had a 3 phase outlet installed close to the machine enabling me to fire up the spindle. My current hurdle is understanding spindle speed control, or more precisely, knowing how to change the spindle speed.

The spindle is controlled by an ALTIVAR 18 Adjustable Speed Drive Controller. I can manually run and stop the spindle via the Multicam sub console (Run: Function 2 = ON; Stop: Press STOP key) however it seems the spindle will only run flatout at 300 Hz or 18,000 RPM. The Multicam documentation indicates the RPM can be changed by pressing the up and down keys on the keypad on the ALTIVAR 18 while the spindle is running. Pressing these keys has no effect.

I see that the ALTIVAR 18 on my machine is currently wired to an input on the side of the enclosure with the markings: Spindle +-. I assume this is for a seperate analogue controller. No controller came with the machine. Could the existence and current connection of this input be overriding the up and down keys on the keypad on the ALTIVAR 18? I'm afraid the user manual for the ALTIVAR 18 isn't helping me here.

Again, any hints would be appreciated!

[Ross_N]

Ha!! Scratch that last post. The 'input' is actually the pot with it's knob busted off. How could I have mistaken that??
I'm pretty sure than means the spindle has just been running flat strap since the pot copped a whack. Poor spindle: no warm up procedure I'm imagining.

Now with a temporary knob (screwdriver jammed in the stub) I am pretty much ready to begin some trial cuts.

[blazk]

Gday Ross_N.
I recently got a Multicam SII with Linear ATC (Adelaide, Australia) I have no clue how to operate it at this stage due to older software (toolpath). Homes and works fine (far as I can tell). Im following your posts as I would like to upgrade to newer electricals so I can run (like you) more modern cam / PP. Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated.

[Ross_N]

Sorry blazk, I haven't checked in on the forum for a while.

I haven't progressed with the electronics upgrade. Instead I've been cutting a few jobs sending them from Toolpath. My workflow is to create a part in Solidworks, use Solidworks CAM to make the toolpaths and to post the nc file. I copy the nc file onto a thumb drive and physically load it onto the ancient PC which has Toolpath loaded and is connected by a cable to the router. Once I open the nc file in Toolpath there's a little bit of fiddling to make sure each tool path is assigned to the correct tool in the ATC. I'm only doing basic 2D and 2.5D cuts for now.

The machine I'm using also has a linear ATC and the electronics are different to the schematic of the machine (without ATC) I posted in an earlier post. I'm yet to turn my attention to converting the machine because work has been busy and I've been having too much fun just cutting stuff as it is, albeit via my cumbersome workflow. I dare say our machines are very similar. Do you have a PC running Toolpath that connects to the router? In my case the PC runs Windows 98 and has a mother-board with an “8bit ISA slot” which is required to connect the LRC Card, which in turn connects the PC and router via LRC cable.

Finding the Multicam Toolpath manual online was gold. I would not have been able to get the machine cutting without it: https://multicam.com.au/images/PDF/Toolpath_Manual.pdf There is an expanded AXYZ manual too which has more detail, but I've found the Multicam version has enough info to get cutting.

I'll get my head back into upgrade mode and post anything I learn along the way. Feel free to post anything you learn too or specific questions in case I or others have answers. Soooo much to learn!

So far however, I'm finding this machine to be very robust and working well. There are some slight flats worn in the guide rails on the y axis which I'm guessing I'll start noticing as I try to cut closer tolerances. Does anyone know if these guide rails can be rotated 180 deg or anything?

[blazk]

Np Ross_N I know how it gets. Life and cnc are sometimes a bad relationship haha
I managed to get my SII up and running over the weekend. I have toolpath on cd if anyone needs it / you need it ? here is a vid of the ATC in action.
I have the manual in hardcopy already, which I found a while ago from the other machine that's at work (No one can use that either cause the guy who use to run it left), but it's SO confusing!!
As for your Solidworks / cam workflow, what PP do you use for it ? I have only very limited knowledge inside of Solidworks as I usually use fusion360. Even then I have never touched the CAM side of either program. I use Aspire vcarve but on shapeoko scale, nothing like this, very scary to me as I don't wanna break/smash into the bed etc.
Yes I need a laptop connected to the router to send / upload from toolpath to the controller.. that's all I know how to do (nothing inside toolpath as I'm very dumb when it comes to the older software) not sure how to make sure its using the right tool or how the machine knows what tools where / whats in the spindle atm. I do have the upgraded LRC (I think that's what it is) so you can run it through windows 10 instead.
I don't see why you couldn't turn them 180 if the holes line up ??
Appreciate all the help you have put in so far mate, makes me have some hope I might be able to get mine cutting sometime soon... I hope. Id rather not fork out $2500 to upgrade to a masso, geko 204v drivers etc until I can make a little money on it as it sits now.

[blazk]

Any other way of contacting you Ross_N ?
Cheers.

[blazk]

Im struggling with a few issues with the ATC as well as setting a starting point (datum) for the machine to start cutting. So I just have a simple circle inside of toolpath, I try and select the tool (say tool 5) make it a Red group for example that has atc 5. There is a tool in the spindle already, controller wants me to "manually unload 0" then pick up the same tool...I'm probably doing something very wrong on that side of things. When I try a function 84 to get the lift top bot and surface comes up with "not implemented".
What do you put as you home position? x0 y 0 ? This is screwing me up.
If anyone knows how / can help me with a start to finish process for running just a simple job that would be amazing. Ive spent days trying to get my head around it.

[Ross_N]

Sorry mate
I'll see if there are notifications which should help with timely replies. There's a fair level of blind leading the blind here, but there are a few thoughts:

The PP I am using with Solidworks came from Hawkridge Systems: https://hawkridgesys.com/products/ca...-international

My machine has a linear ATC too. The x,y location for this is written on a sticker inside the tool change compartment. I imagine these are coordinates that are relative to the absolute zero values, which I imagine are the where the x and y limit switches trigger.
'Home' is different to absolute 0,0 and can be anywhere on the table, within the soft limits. The soft limits are the table dimensions entered on the Calibration tab of the SETUP menu. Error 350 I think will notify you if you have loaded a job outside of the soft limits.
The position for Home is entered in the Home fields on this same tab.
For the most part, this will be your 0,0 where you start a job from and will be where the head will move to once you have run a Function 12 (Seek absolute zero). Note that Function 13 will put the cutter in the position defined by Function 3 in the step noted below.

However 0,0 for a job can be anywhere on the table and this does not need to be the Home coordinates.
For example, chuck a piece of stock anywhere on the table. Use the handheld controller to jog the head to where you would like 0,0, relative to the shape you are about to cut. Do a Function 3 to let the machine know that you want that position to be 0,0 for this job. Then run the job.

So, for a simple job like you describe on my machine this is my start to finish process.
Let's say I'm cutting a big round hole right in the centre of a square piece of 12mm MDF. For this imaginary hole, I'll do it in a single pass plunging straight through the MDF into the spoil board below, around in a big circle, then back up out of the job where the cut started. I'm not cutting the perimeter of the stock in this instance.

I'll either model the circle and stock in Solidworks and use the CAM feature to generate the .nc file. I'll model the stock for this job to be about 0.1mm thicker than the MDF I will be cutting so the tool will make it all the way through the stock when I cut; Alternatively and less likely
I'll draw the circle in anything that will create a DXF.

I'll then copy the .nc file to a USB and load it into last century (PC running Windows 98 which has ToolPath).
The router will be switched on and connected to the PC at this point. The Compressor will also be running and up to full pressure to allow the tool changer to operate.
Opening the .nc file in ToolPath will show the plunge and circle tool path and stock boundary. There are options in ToolPath to change the location of the cut in relation to 0,0 of your stock and also the stock size and so on.
I'll go to Output and associate the toolpath with the tool (for example ATC3) I want to cut with, which will also match the tool crib I have set up in Solidworks then TRANSMIT the job to the router controller.

On the router controller I'll do a Function 4 to define the lowest point that the machine will cut to (in this case above the machine table but lower than the surface of the spoil board blow your stock) and the highest point the cutter will be lifted between cuts (usually 5 to 10mm above the surface of the stock to be cut or above the height of any workholding clamps or jigs if I'm not using the vac table). Note that this is performed by default with the tool in ATC1 although you can ask it to perform the Function 4 on any tool. Also, by running a function 4 using ATC1, IMPORTANT this assumes I have already run a Function 352 since changing any tools in any of the tool holders, Function 352 records all tool heights relative to the tool in ATC 1, so you don't need to worry about setting each tool in the tool holder at the same height.

Next, I'll move the head to where I want 0,0 to be for the job. I lower whatever cutter that I have in the spindle close to the stock to do this. When I am happy, I'll do a Function 3 to call this position 0,0.
Now I select the job and press the big green button. The spindle will move over the ATC hatch and ask if I want to manually release the current tool or something like that. I press enter and it'll return the current tool to the ATC and pick up the right tool for the job. The toll will move to the 0,0 defined in the Function 3.
Now the controller will ask where the surface of my stock is. I'll jog the z axis down to kiss the surface of the stock, toggling between fast, medium slow and increment with the +- key on the controller. When I'm happy I'll press enter. The top surface needs to be between the upper and lower heights set during Function 4.
The z axis will lift to the height set as lift top in function 4 and the spindle will turn on.
I'll press the green button and the job will run, lift the spindle back to lift top and the spindle will stop.
When I'm done I'll run a Function 33 to put the tool away.

There are loads of variations to this workflow. Home might be my 0,0 so I won't run a Function 3, instead I'll put the stock into the physical guides I have in the table for where Home is set. Or, I might have multiple tools set up so they will need to be associated to the correct tool path that has imported and so on. What's more I might have recalled any number of the steps above incorrectly of in the wrong order, but hopefully accurately enough to point you in the right direction. Remember - blind leading the blind!!

With your question about the manual unload 0, I imagine this is prompting you to make sure your position 0(?) is empty so it can return the tool holder to this position before picking up the holder you have in position 5. If you are unsure, press the manual release button on the side of the spindle to eject the tool holder in the spindle. A piece of wood underneath can be a good idea in case you fumble the tool holder as it drops (or is ejected) out of the spindle.

Good luck! Let me know what you discover.

[blazk]

Gday Ross_N
No worries mate been here every day hoping/preying you would come back haha. SO thank you in advance.
The information you provided wow what an insight. Im going to have to give that all a go tomorrow and see how I get on. I'm excited to cut something, anything.
Im curious I do have Solidworks is there a simple cam tutorial out there I could follow ?

Thanks again
Tobias.

[Ross_N]

Cool. Have fun. I'm really only a step ahead of where you are at so you'll catch up in no time. I just watched the vid you posted a while back of the ATC. Your machine looks to be in way better shape than mine and a bit younger. Good score

For SW CAM, I just googled youtube tutorials and watched a few.

A few I watched which I found helpful:






I slowly crept up on my first cuts. I did lots of air cuts without powering up the spindle and went back and forth between youtube and the ToolPath guide till things seemed to be behaving in a more or less predictable way. Only then did I feel good about adding the spindle into the mix. I found I needed to go over things a few times before the penny would drop on something and if nothing else I have learned to take it step by step and not expect to become an expert in a weekend. At the moment I'm just getting a bit of a handle on feeds and speeds in different materials, including aluminium plate, and with different tools. So much learning ahead! So much fun to be had!

[blazk]

Thanks, that's going to help me out a lot. I cant wait to get started on this today.
As for feeds and speeds this came with my multicam so might help you out a bit ?
https://i.imgur.com/9IUyky0.jpg

Are you using hold-downs or just a vacuum table, a combination of both to secure material?

[Ross_N]

Thanks. That will be useful.

At the moment I'm just clamping. I've taken out the rubber strips in the T slots so I can use T nuts and bolts. This is fine for small pieces of stock, but I expect larger pieces will flex upward if I'm using an up cut tool especially as the cutter moves toward the centre of the sheet and more so with a larger cutter and deeper cut. I don't have any down cut or compression cutters at the moment to overcome this.

I don't have my vac attached yet because I've only recently peeled away pieces of foil tape covering a few fights between tool and table where the table came off second best. Some of these craters where through the table surface into the air chamber below. I've filled these in with fibre reinforced epoxy and faced the table off flat. Tig welding would have been better than epoxy but was a mission I wasn't really up for. I made a backing board I could slide inside the table extrusion with some release on so the epoxy didn't sag inside the extrusion. Once set, a good yank and out it would come. I guess I'll see if the epoxy can hold up with the vac on. Apart from a few darker grey fillings here and there, the table will soon be good as new and totally flat, relative to the x rails at least. This weekend I'm hoping to finish this task and get the end caps back on the table extrusions and hook up the vac and dust shoe. Of course I'll only actually get about 1/3 of this done, but it's nice to dream big.

[blazk]

Gday Ross_N
Wonder if you are able to share how you set up the Multicam inside of Solidworks Cam environment (screenshots?) aka what settings you used for the machine setup? most the tutorials are for mills?
Cheers mate.

[Ross_N]

Hi Tobias
To set up in Solidworks, you may need to load the CAM add in to get the CAM tab. If you can't see the CAM tab, google CAM add in or whatever.
Once you are on the CAM tab, left click on Define Machine.
You'll get a pop up. In the first tab called Machine, I selected the Metric 3 Axis template and renamed it Metric MULTICAM. On the next tab, the tool crib is pretty basic to understand and there are loads of vids showing how to set up the tool crib with the tools you intend to be using. There is (are) default crib(s) with heaps of tools. When defining tools you can go nuts entering dimensions, manufacturer's specs and so on. I suspect the more detail you can provide for each tool, the more chance SW CAM will automatically select the best tool for the operation when you start generating tool paths. At this stage though, I've been editing the autogenerated operations for each job I have run. This is well covered in one of the vids I suggested.
The last tab I did anything on was then Post Processor tab. The trickiest part of setting up for me was understanding the importance of using a suitable post processor and then finding one online. I can't stress enough how stoked I was to get over this hurdle. It really stopped me in my tracks for a few days but after a fair bit of google time i found one that works. The key was understanding that the Multicam (AUS) motion controller is an AXYZ Corp component and so I needed a suitable AXYZ post processor. Obvious in retrospect.

There are a bunch of other setup things to do in ToolPath, specifically max XYZ travels, feeds and probably a few others. The ToolPath manual covers these and you probably won't need to change anything here. On my machine the x and y travels were set smaller than the available space and the max feeds (x, y and plunge) were also set way too slow.

With regard to max feeds, the ToolPath manual states the router will choose the slowest feed when comparing the feeds set in SW CAM, the max feeds set in ToolPath and the feed set in the controller itself by doing an F1. This had me guessing too for a while.

Here are a few screenshots:

[blazk]

Gday Ross_N Long time hope you are still active here...
Finally got some time to play with the cnc, life got in the way big time. I managed to get everything sorted out in Solidworks and exported in the .nc into the toolpath program.
Everything looked good inside of toolpath until I saw that my facing bit didn't fit in the ATC. I did a function 350 and passing the ATC so I could use the 50mm facing bit. This is where everything went wrong.
So in toolpath the .nc file was good, showed the facing (just spoil board facing) toolpath. Very simple. I made sure it was using the right tool (Tool 9 - Active Yes - Type Router (not atc) - Tool Tip 150- Manual) only wanted to take off 3mm. I sent it to the controller.
My procedure :
Function 12 (home machine)
Function 4 - It asked for surface? so I think that's referring to the machine bed? Lift bottom - Manullay had it input just above the machine bed (5mm) Lift top - Manually input 10mm
I wanted to make sure i made an air test of the toolpath so I moved the machine above the spoil board about 5 -10mm and to the datum (lower right corner near the tooltip plate.
Function 3 - reset the x y where i wanted it to start.
loaded the program from the controller hit Green to go ...
Controller read x0 y0 z0 and then error (couldn't go to z endstop). I tried several times but i couldn't get past this point.
Im happy i got it all working inside of solidworks with the cam etc just getting the machine to work,,,, struggle. I did have to del the line to select the tool from the tool changer inside of the .nc file (maybe that screwed it up?)
Any help with running a job outside of the ATC or if you can see where i stuffed up would be awesome.
I attached my solidworks and .nc file (without changes) in case you see anywhere there either / test inside of toolpath.

[blazk]

Tried again today. Used a template inside of toolpath (green) to cut 2mm. Function 12, 4 and then a 3 with no go. I tried also putting the machine in nc mode.. still nothing. Im so close its frustrating.