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    Default Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by davida1234 View Post
    Thank you Peter.

    I did look up Crestomer. It looks like it is not available/can't be shipped to where I live. Your Scotchweld is interesting. It is a widely available manufacturer here. Do you happen to remember which type/number you used for the melamine plugs? Because I tried a few and the bond would come apart when a bit force was applied.
    This is about as good as it gets for HDPE don't expect it to have a great bond this is not a material that bonds well, the best process for this material is fusion

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    Default Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi Zorbit - Green and smelly says its a PMMA adhesive. Yep its acrid stuff!! But good...Crestomer is a brand name and covers several adhesive systems. The one I've used on boat structures is a hybrid urethane/acrylic stuff that is moisture tolerant. Urethanes use moisture as a curing agent so the surface moisture that is on everything is not a detrimental thing. It is with epoxies as they do not like water. We did several destructive tests with Crestomer 1152 and found it to outperform epoxy. No need for taping either and these were survey boats that we had to jump through lots of hoops to get it to the water. Surveyors and DOTs don't like new solutions.

    For routers in metal or timber simple epoxy with good prep is all that's needed. Use a hot air gun on metals or a flame before application... roughen surface with some grit paper, follow manufacturers instructions and all's good. Peter



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    Default Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi All - I've borrowed the bench and stand from Boxi a prior plywood router design to get Maximus grounded. Boxi used pocket screws and glue to hold it together. I'm now going through plywood supplies to decide on the biggest sheet I can get to create the the machine bed and get the 2400mmx700mm plus edge allowances or so bed size in one sheet. This will finalise the machine size. Once the machining size and footprint is frozen I can move along to Round 2. I know I've been talking about R2 for a while now.... I'm also still thinking about a metal bench, stiffness is king here...Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing new Router called Maximus-max-2-jpg   Designing new Router called Maximus-maximus-1-jpg  


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    Default Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi All - I've done a bit more stressing and adjusting parts. Simsolid only displays values to 0.00 so I've been using 10,000N as the design load so I can see the differences to the third place so to speak. 10,000N is 1019kgf or 1.1 US tons. The structure would survive this with 314MPa being the highest stress in a small corner if we used G350 steel for the gantry front. But being a light router I doubt we will get past 100kgf tool load in reality. So we are now deflecting at 30% more than our 10N/um target with over 10X safety factor on stress. So you guys out there that keep saying its got to be "stronger" need to say it's got to be stiffer (there must be a joke in there somewhere) I have to widen the gantry and get the proper bench into the structural model. So I'll get the bench size frozen then can start the rebuild.

    I'll modify the comment about deflection. The force is being applied at the bottom clamp for consistency purposes. At the clamp its deflecting 0.95mm which is under the target stiffness ie 10,000N <1.0mm (10N/um) Happy Days...

    Currently in the simulation all faying surfaces are "bonded" which means they are more efficient than when we come to bolt them (maybe if we use the right bolts in the right places it will be equivalent) So the simulation is more like the structure is welded together at the moment. Ultimately I have to decide if the design is too expensive for the market that I target. But until we get to the design resolution that's a mystery. Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing new Router called Maximus-maximus-1t-deflection-jpg   Designing new Router called Maximus-maximus-1t-stress-jpg   Designing new Router called Maximus-max-front-jpg   Designing new Router called Maximus-max-jpg  

    Designing new Router called Maximus-clamp-deflection-jpg  
    Last edited by peteeng; 04-18-2019 at 02:19 AM.


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    Default Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Quote Originally Posted by peteeng View Post
    Hi Zorbit - Green and smelly says its a PMMA adhesive. Yep its acrid stuff!! But good...Crestomer is a brand name and covers several adhesive systems. The one I've used on boat structures is a hybrid urethane/acrylic stuff that is moisture tolerant. Urethanes use moisture as a curing agent so the surface moisture that is on everything is not a detrimental thing. It is with epoxies as they do not like water. We did several destructive tests with Crestomer 1152 and found it to outperform epoxy. No need for taping either and these were survey boats that we had to jump through lots of hoops to get it to the water. Surveyors and DOTs don't like new solutions.

    For routers in metal or timber simple epoxy with good prep is all that's needed. Use a hot air gun on metals or a flame before application... roughen surface with some grit paper, follow manufacturers instructions and all's good. Peter
    Our destructive tests included chaining test pieces to a mooring buoy at low tide and leaving them there for several years. As far as I know, they're still there, checked yearly.

    More recently, I had to glue some 7075-T6 aluminium reinforcements into a hardwood frame and consulted the West Systems bible for advice. They recommend sanding the aluminium through the wet epoxy, to prevent the near-instant oxide layer from forming.



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    Default Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi Zorbit - the wet sanding method is tried and true. But immediately before you start, a waft with a flame or a heat gun to remove surface moisture is best. If you ever tig weld you will see the water leaving the surface of the metal ahead of where your are welding. We are on a water planet and water is everywhere. I also learnt about this when I was vacuum bagging various things and found that epoxy stuck to things like the polished surface of an extrusion like the proverbial. But if I had done this in atmosphere it would not have stuck. Under vacuum all the free water boils off so epoxy sticks to things exceptional well. When I was welding hovercraft parts we had hydroflouric acid to clean aluminium before we welded things. A very large tank of dangerous stuff. Anyways the oxide took about 4 hours to recover so it doesn't happen quite instantly.

    The aircraft industry does most of its secondary bonding hot, partially because of the epoxies used but also to boil off the water...

    To bring the day to an end I have turned the Z axis into a tube design. The back piece and front piece will be identical. I did have it as a shoebox fit but making such a fit in sheet metal is tough. So I shall use side straps and lots of bolts. Plus the spindle clamp can bridge across giving it the correct load distribution at the end. This one has 6mm thick bits vs the 8mm thick before and its same stiffness and weight. 0.98mm deflection at the clamp with 10,000N applied. Now the major deflection is in the gantry so need to tidy that up.

    I'm off for the weekend to do some towing launch tests on a flying trimaran, should be exciting.... Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing new Router called Maximus-z-axis-jpg  
    Last edited by peteeng; 04-18-2019 at 07:32 AM.


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    Default Re: Designing new Router called Maximus

    Hi All - A brief summary of where the design is at. By the way the transverse rigidity is 4x the longitudinal rigidity. Peter

    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Designing new Router called Maximus-max-transverse-jpg  
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    Last edited by peteeng; 04-18-2019 at 08:13 PM.


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