New Here Evening All... where to start?


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Thread: Evening All... where to start?

  1. #1
    TheKman76's Avatar
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    Default Evening All... where to start?

    Greetings from freezing Melbourne everyone!

    I'm new here and making my first foray into DIY CNC. The young master is now getting to an age where taking things apart to see how they work is a full-time hobby and he's renewed my interest in all things electronic and mechanical. These days universities offer an array of courses in robotics and mechatronics which didn't exist when I was a student, so I'm looking to become something of a mentor for my son; enabling both of us perhaps, but with the best intentions.

    History? I educated in Electronic and Computer Systems Engineering in the nineties, then immediately moved into the I.T. industry, so my skills in 'hard core' engineering are more than a little rusty. But, I've brushed up on some electronics and familiarised myself with some relatively recent Arduino inovations with a view to building a few projects which my son and I can both use. It's already been great fun, but to the point...

    Suffering a life-long desire to have access to a CNC mill or router, it's suddenly the perfect time to build one. Some basics I've already decided on; 400mm x 400mm x 100mm work volume, softish materials (plastic, wood, fibreglass, some aluminium), small 700W Makita router (it's a multi-function device, not a dedicated spindle), air cooling only, low power requirements, lightweight build materials so it can be portable, must fit on a deep desk (700mm), reasonably quite, can accept cutters from 1/2" down to sub-millimeter for PCB prototyping, can be fully enclosed possibly with dust extraction down the track.
    I have a few items on the way already, like an Arduino CNC shield and driver carriers, four low-current Nema 23 steppers, basic 8mm lead screws and associated bits, some aluminium v-slot sections and delrin wheels for linear motion, but much of the small hardware and structure are as yet unconsidered.

    So, that's me, I suppose I'll see you 'round. I'll leave you with a couple of the questions that I have in mind, so perhaps you good folks might direct me to the appropriate subforum to ask them?

    Dave.

    Questions:
    1) Maybe I've not looked hard enough, but I don't see any CNC router designs which can be mounted directly to a flat work piece, as opposed to mounting the work piece on a CNC router bed. Is there such a thing as a 'bedless CNC router'? Imagine, if you will, a core-xy style system which can be mounted to a large panel to route logos or inlays. Exists?
    2) I often wonder at the shape of gantry uprights on many designs, the familiar 'foot' shape, presumably to balance the bearing loads front-to-back in the y-axis. Particularly in DIY designs the spindle/z-axis seems to be hanging waaaay out in front of the x-axis. So, why are more people not balancing the z-axis components across the gantry instead? Ideally the x-axis bearing centre, the z-axis centre of mass and the lead screw should all exist on the same plane, right? Yet, almost everyone seems to insert the z-axis motion components between the x and spindle,unbalancing the gantry. Why not move the linear parts of the z to the back of the gantry with a wrap around design, or better yet built a horizontal gantry with a slot and install the spindle right in the centre?

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    Default Re: Evening All... where to start?

    One reason for having the spindle on the front face as it were is access for maintenance. Can you design around that?

    Cheers
    Roger



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    Default Re: Evening All... where to start?

    Q#1 Machines like laser can be placed on top of the work but a machine with cutting forces would be more complicated.
    Q#2 A case practical concerns winning out over theory. Every machine is a compromise in some way.

    The most solid gantry is one that's fixed to the base and it's also the simplest to build. On the downside it is a larger machine for a given work area.
    In other words a moving table design.

    Anyone who says "It only goes together one way" has no imagination.


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    *Registered User* chucknitro's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evening All... where to start?

    https://www.makerstore.com.au/ have some interesting kits available in Australia.
    I am also freezing in Melbourne with IT background getting interested in laser cutting.
    May be interested in sharing costs etc of CNC kit if you are close by. Message me if you are also interested.



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    Default Re: Evening All... where to start?

    It all end up being a long journey if your in it for the fun of building and the electrics then that's a good thing if you i for a money making exercise then I guess that road forks off to the bank .I made a 2x1meter with a Z depth of 200mm for 5K you could put any head on it you like once you have a good foundation all good fun.cheers John.



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    Activation process peteeng's Avatar
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    Default Re: Evening All... where to start?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKman76 View Post
    Greetings from freezing Melbourne everyone!

    I'm new here and making my first foray into DIY CNC. The young master is now getting to an age where taking things apart to see how they work is a full-time hobby and he's renewed my interest in all things electronic and mechanical. These days universities offer an array of courses in robotics and mechatronics which didn't exist when I was a student, so I'm looking to become something of a mentor for my son; enabling both of us perhaps, but with the best intentions.

    History? I educated in Electronic and Computer Systems Engineering in the nineties, then immediately moved into the I.T. industry, so my skills in 'hard core' engineering are more than a little rusty. But, I've brushed up on some electronics and familiarised myself with some relatively recent Arduino inovations with a view to building a few projects which my son and I can both use. It's already been great fun, but to the point...

    Suffering a life-long desire to have access to a CNC mill or router, it's suddenly the perfect time to build one. Some basics I've already decided on; 400mm x 400mm x 100mm work volume, softish materials (plastic, wood, fibreglass, some aluminium), small 700W Makita router (it's a multi-function device, not a dedicated spindle), air cooling only, low power requirements, lightweight build materials so it can be portable, must fit on a deep desk (700mm), reasonably quite, can accept cutters from 1/2" down to sub-millimeter for PCB prototyping, can be fully enclosed possibly with dust extraction down the track.
    I have a few items on the way already, like an Arduino CNC shield and driver carriers, four low-current Nema 23 steppers, basic 8mm lead screws and associated bits, some aluminium v-slot sections and delrin wheels for linear motion, but much of the small hardware and structure are as yet unconsidered.

    So, that's me, I suppose I'll see you 'round. I'll leave you with a couple of the questions that I have in mind, so perhaps you good folks might direct me to the appropriate subforum to ask them?

    Dave.

    Questions:
    1) Maybe I've not looked hard enough, but I don't see any CNC router designs which can be mounted directly to a flat work piece, as opposed to mounting the work piece on a CNC router bed. Is there such a thing as a 'bedless CNC router'? Imagine, if you will, a core-xy style system which can be mounted to a large panel to route logos or inlays. Exists?
    2) I often wonder at the shape of gantry uprights on many designs, the familiar 'foot' shape, presumably to balance the bearing loads front-to-back in the y-axis. Particularly in DIY designs the spindle/z-axis seems to be hanging waaaay out in front of the x-axis. So, why are more people not balancing the z-axis components across the gantry instead? Ideally the x-axis bearing centre, the z-axis centre of mass and the lead screw should all exist on the same plane, right? Yet, almost everyone seems to insert the z-axis motion components between the x and spindle,unbalancing the gantry. Why not move the linear parts of the z to the back of the gantry with a wrap around design, or better yet built a horizontal gantry with a slot and install the spindle right in the centre?
    1) yes this type of machine is out there- look at shopbot site
    2) If you balance the Z axis "correctly" you end up with a very long axis which is wasted length and there are quite a few double beamed gantry machines out there. They make sense, yet again result in very long axis with less usable bed space. So if you have a lot of room double gantries are great. When you are paying $130 per metre plus for rails and lots of $/m for a bench these add up if you go the double rail or fully balanced way.

    As above says all design is a compromise and its quite a juggle with a gantry CNC once you commit to various size of bed and footprints to maximise the usable space. You either commit to usable space and the machine grows or you stick with a footprint and the machine shrinks. peter



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Evening All... where to start?

Evening All... where to start?