Promica X3 CNC Mill for Sale

[swarfmeister]

Seig X3 milling machine converted to CNC using a Promica Kit. Options include:

- 400 X 280 X 400 mm working area
- Thompson ball nuts and screws
- Dual ball nuts (minimise backlash)
- Optical sensors on X, Y Z
- Gecko G540 controller and power supply
- Mach 3 control
- Machinery House Mill Stand
- approximately 5 MT3 collet holders and some assorted tooling.

The PROMiCA conversion kit was the premier CNC conversion kit for the X3. It is properly built with belt drives and HDPE covers to protect the workings. Sadly the kit is no longer available, here is your chance to own one of your own.

Located in Sydney, Australia.

Similar Threads:

• Promica X3 - What Now?

[RCaffin]

No use without a price.

Cheers
Roger

[handlewanker]

Why do I get the impression that having built the thing it failed to perform as it's basically a manual mill and fraught with problems hence the sell it on .....now it's second hand so the selling price will be half what it cost.

I'd say about A$1,500 would be a good opener.....that's pretty reasonable as it's only got a MT3 spindle.........no power draw bar.

Reworking a manual mill to CNC is dependent on the skill of the person doing it not the value of the components, and you get no warranties with a second hand machine.

BTW.......can the spindle actually cover the full 400 X 280 work area?

I think your best bet would be to list it on EBAY with lots of photos and a detailed description then post a link to the listing number here.
Ian.

[RCaffin]

Part of the problem may be that the machine is apparently using Morse Taper on the spindle. MT is fine for drilling, but totally unsuited to milling, as the vibration can shake the fitting loose if there is no draw-bar. Perhaps the vendor should mention whether the unit has a draw-bar?
But then, perhaps the spindle could be replaced? That should work, surely?

Cheers
Roger

[handlewanker]

Hi, I think these machines with the MT3 do (must) have a draw bar as they are regular manual mill/drills..

The problem is you cannot have a power draw bar to make tool removal quick and easy.

It does work as a holding system and the tooling with that taper is quite cheap, but it's all manual removal and you don't want to overtighten the drawbar or it's curtains.......Morse tapers can stick ever so tight when a heavy hand is at work.

For a spindle replacement I would go for the R8.....ISO30 would be nice, but I don't think it's available.

With R8 you can go to a sort of TTS system with parallel shank tooling....and a power draw bar.

One big draw back on the SX3 and other column type mills that formerly used a quill is the using of the head casting to do the Z axis moves..........this leads to having the head nod sympton as the dovetails are not designed to run freely up and down the column.

Just fitting linear ways to the column makes a mongrel into a thoroughbred.

I think a $1,500 starting bid on EBAY with a 10 day duration would get the ball rolling.
Ian.

[mactec54]

Hi, I think these machines with the MT3 do (must) have a draw bar as they are regular manual mill/drills..

The problem is you cannot have a power draw bar to make tool removal quick and easy.

It does work as a holding system and the tooling with that taper is quite cheap, but it's all manual removal and you don't want to overtighten the drawbar or it's curtains.......Morse tapers can stick ever so tight when a heavy hand is at work.

For a spindle replacement I would go for the R8.....ISO30 would be nice, but I don't think it's available.

With R8 you can go to a sort of TTS system with parallel shank tooling....and a power draw bar.

One big draw back on the SX3 and other column type mills that formerly used a quill is the using of the head casting to do the Z axis moves..........this leads to having the head nod sympton as the dovetails are not designed to run freely up and down the column.

Just fitting linear ways to the column makes a mongrel into a thoroughbred.

I think a $1,500 starting bid on EBAY with a 10 day duration would get the ball rolling.
Ian.

Do you have experience with a SX3, there spindle is available in different tapers, and for a small machine are quite capable of working as good as your small $10,000 machine, here is a video of a converted one, they do also come with rails on some of the CNC models

[handlewanker]

Nope.....a manual mill retrofit is not my cup of tea, especially with a quill and MT3....I prefer to stay with the real stuff that has been designed from the floor up as a CNC mill.......mine also comes in a cabinet with fully enclosed electronics too.

This is not to say that the SX3 is crap..........as long as the CNC parts are fitted correctly you can live with any short comings that arise.

I just have to wonder after all that retrofit work why it's being sold on.......with no indication of the working history, the resale value drops off dramatically if it's been used for a bit.
Ian.

[RCaffin]

I just have to wonder after all that retrofit work why it's being sold on
Yah - crucial Q.

Cheers
Roger

[phomann]

Hi,

I find the comments regarding this machine a bit elitist. You guys seem to be putting it down because it is not a $20,000+ purpose built CNC machine. Keep in mind these conversions are not trying to compete with more expensive machines.
Its a bit like someone who owns a Aston Martin advising someone, not to waste their time buying a Hyundai.

I have a manual Titan TM20VL converted to CNC. Sure it has it's limitations. I've also looked over DC Teachers SkyFire CNC mill. It has around the same work envelope. It cost him about $24,000. Mine cost about a 1/10th of that. Admittedly, my machine has nowhere near the capability or quality of the SkyFire, but I can't justify the cost of the SkyFire either.

You will find there are people who will say don't waste your time a a SkyFire machine. Spend the $60,000 and but a proper machining centre.

People purchase CNC machines based on a number of criteria. Just because the machine doesn't meet yours, you don't need to put it down.

Maybe the guy is selling it because he wants to upgrade to a Skyfire. But then, he's probably been scared away.

Cheers,

Peter

[RCaffin]

Hi Peter

No, not putting it down as you suggested, just thinking that a price and some history would be very desirable. Like buying a used car.

Cheers
Roger

[handlewanker]

Hi, I also agree on that score........it's not a comparison that's in the air, it's an evaluation of a retrofit and all it's drawbacks......this is not an elitist observation as it's poles apart from a $20,000 dedicated and designed from the ground up machine..

True it can do a job and make almost anyone happy to see chips fly.......the "revue" was just a thumbnail sketch of the type.......the price will determine how it moves.

Without a warranty it's a crossed fingers exercise unless you can evaluate it before parting with the dough......probably would be the case for a pick up only item.

I think, as a complete package, probably sans computer, I'd want a demo to see it produce a part to some form or dimension before deciding on the price.
Ian.

[phomann]

Google is your friend.

Here's the machine on Gumtree.
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cast...kit/1170017919

$5000 is probably the right starting point for negotiating down from for a converted SX3, assuming it is in good working order. As far as I know the Promica kits were quite solid and of reasonable quality.

I'd certainly want to inspect the machine and see it working before parting with any cash though.

Cheers,

Peter

[RCaffin]

Hum ....
The ad above says 400 x 280 x 400 mm
The H&F ad for the X3 says 400 x 150 x 350 mm
Ads for the SX3 say 500 x 145 x 300 mm, just for reference

A curious disparity in Y travel.

Cheers
Roger

[handlewanker]

Google is your friend.

Here's the machine on Gumtree.
https://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/cast...kit/1170017919

$5000 is probably the right starting point for negotiating down from for a converted SX3, assuming it is in good working order. As far as I know the Promica kits were quite solid and of reasonable quality.

I'd certainly want to inspect the machine and see it working before parting with any cash though.

Cheers,

Peter

BTW....the add states it's an X3 not an SX3......I've seen better adds on EBAY with lots more photos and a description.

[phomann]

So whats your point Ian?

So I typed it wrong. Apparently you guys are the keepers of this forum so I'll just let it go. It's no wonder there are so few posting here.

[handlewanker]

If I was to sell a machine starting out at 5grand I'd need to get more exposure than the Gumtree add......3 photos and they barely apply to the actual mill, not that I'm interested in indulging in another mill, just passing a comment.

[RCaffin]

Hi Peter

For the record, there is no way I am any sort of keeper for any channel here.
I just thought I would check on the dimensions, that's all. 280 mm travel on the Y axis sounded interesting.

Cheers
Roger

[swarfmeister]

Thanks for all the comments. The asking price is $4950. The travel on the machine is 400 X 175 X 395. More details are available on the manufacturer's old website here -> https://web.archive.org/web/20091203.../specs_mx3.php. I purchased this kit in 2010 and have not used it more than 2-3 time per year in the past few years for small aviation projects. I would expect the purchaser to come and see the machine running.

As for the quality of the machine I have been perfectly happy with it. When Marc was in business he was selling a lot of these machines to TAFEs and schools and he used his own machines to make the kit. At the time Machineryhouse was selling a less capable machine for more than four times the price. I looked at machines such as the KX3, which were also significantly more expensive and not as capable. Marc was in Australia, the kit has an excellent manual written in english and came with local support. Buying a Promica kit was a pretty easy decision.

There are many build threads on this site from people who have built them. They had many advantages including properly sized servos with belt drive so they run at a reasonable speed, increased y working area, optical limit switches, quality ball screws etc. Do your research and I doubt you will find a better conversion, and I would be really surprised if most could do their own and get anywhere near the acuracy and performance.

X3 vs. SX3, Marc prefered not to use them for a number of reasons and recommended I buy an X3 instead.

MT3 is what is supplied here in Australia on the X3. I have 5-6 holders and collets. I set the tool heights and change as required. Not really an issue for me as I run 1-3 tools on a part and use the machine so infrequently.

[handlewanker]

At last the real nitty gritty.....sounds like a good deal for anyone who wants to get up and go without the mess and bother of working out what will work and what'll work better with hindsight.

As far as I have read, the spindle speed is a bit low at 1,800 rpm according to the EBAY description of the SX3 with the 1,000 watt brushless motor....probably the same for the X3.

This is one area where the upgrade need is a must have as many people like to work with carbide........it would be interesting to see how it handles cutting steel.

My relatively smaller SVM-0 has the upgraded 1,000 watt motor and belt drive with 2 sets of pulleys to get a total speed range from 100 to 7,000 rpm......changing the pulleys over on the motor gives 3,500 rpm and more torque.

I suppose a pulley rework for the X3 will give the same results.

The included H&F stand is nice but one thing is absolutely definitely needed for sure......a cabinet or enclosure of sorts is a prime must have factor unless you like walking on gritty swarf and it DOES get into everything without one apart from the oily residue that won't go away ....EVER.........even a wrap around shower type curtain is better than nothing.
Ian.

[handlewanker]

Thanks for all the comments. The asking price is $4950. The travel on the machine is 400 X 175 X 395. More details are available on the manufacturer's old website here -> https://web.archive.org/web/20091203.../specs_mx3.php. I purchased this kit in 2010 and have not used it more than 2-3 time per year in the past few years for small aviation projects. I would expect the purchaser to come and see the machine running.

As for the quality of the machine I have been perfectly happy with it. When Marc was in business he was selling a lot of these machines to TAFEs and schools and he used his own machines to make the kit. At the time Machineryhouse was selling a less capable machine for more than four times the price. I looked at machines such as the KX3, which were also significantly more expensive and not as capable. Marc was in Australia, the kit has an excellent manual written in english and came with local support. Buying a Promica kit was a pretty easy decision.

There are many build threads on this site from people who have built them. They had many advantages including properly sized servos with belt drive so they run at a reasonable speed, increased y working area, optical limit switches, quality ball screws etc. Do your research and I doubt you will find a better conversion, and I would be really surprised if most could do their own and get anywhere near the acuracy and performance.

X3 vs. SX3, Marc prefered not to use them for a number of reasons and recommended I buy an X3 instead.

MT3 is what is supplied here in Australia on the X3. I have 5-6 holders and collets. I set the tool heights and change as required. Not really an issue for me as I run 1-3 tools on a part and use the machine so infrequently.

BTW.........the SX3 on EBAY is advertised as having an MT3 or R8 spindle......not sure about the X3..........AUSEE.com au machine tool dealers in Dandenong, Melbourne are advertising a range on their website and EBAY.

For a few bob more I'd be tempted to replace the MT3 spindle with the R8 spindle.

The quill "might" be the same and the bearings too so the MT3 to R8 spindle per se would be the only change over bit.......that means you could have a power draw bar and lots of TTs tooling.....Hee hee heee.
Ian.