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pirke86
12-08-2009, 06:30 AM
Hello everybody,

I registered to this forum because i've bought a Maho MH400c with a Philips 432 control. For hobby:cool:

Is it possible to drip feed this machine?

I want to use edgecam with this machine.

I believe the machine is from '82 and its a 3-axis withouth an automatic tool changer.

I hope you are able to help me.

thebodger@roger
12-08-2009, 08:41 AM
It is possible, as long as the software and CPU are at the correct revision levels. I can't remember for sure (it's been many years since I did an upgrade). I believe the CPU must be a 432-11 (maybe -10 would work) and sofware 6601-632. If your machine is not up to the minimum level for drip feed then an upgrade CPU and sofware is needed. This can be very expensive, if you can even find what is needed.

AndreasL
12-08-2009, 09:22 AM
If not upgraded during its lifetime it probably not possible to drip feed the machine.

I THINK more or less all 432/10 I have heard of (not many though since Im no expert) hase been able to drip feed.
Thats a 600E if I remember right and runs 6601-603 and is capable of handling drip feed.

I have a 500C from 1982.
It was upgraded in -86 to a faster CPU an software level 6104-310.
No drip feed as far as I can understand.

So, its not impossible that you may be able to do this, you have to check youre SW-level.

ATC at an 400C!!!

I really need to se LLLOOOOOTTTSSS of detaild pictures please!

One of many dreams I have is to some day have a ATC for my 500, but Im not sure if its possible to build with in resonable limits or how MAHO solved this.

I am in the very beginning of my MAHO ownership trying to learn EdgeCAM as well. At the same time I have to give the machine a some TLC before its up and running as supposed to.

If I can be to any help, pleas send a PM or post hear.

Good luck!

/Andreas - Beginner as well.

AndreasL
12-08-2009, 01:09 PM
Me -->(chair)

Its a bit of a difference to "with out ATC" and "with ATC"....

Sorry for that, but pics i interesting any way.

pirke86
12-08-2009, 01:45 PM
No it doesnt have an ATC:D

I will post some pictures soon...

But how can i see what CPU and software versions i have?

thebodger@roger
12-08-2009, 02:53 PM
To check software level, do this:
MANUAL then
MENU then
DIAGNOSTIC then
CONFIGURATION CHECK
Machine will display software, along with other things.

To see the CPU -10 or -11, I believe you must take out the CPU, and read the label on the EPROMS. BUT!!!! if you pull out CPU ,,,, ALL MACHINE CONSTANTS WILL BE LOST!!!!! Don't do this unless you have backups and know how to reload them.

AndreasL
12-08-2009, 03:06 PM
Dont you have to turn the switch in the cabinet to get acess to the Diagnostics meny?

I have forgotten.

thebodger@roger
12-08-2009, 03:44 PM
No, you do not need to flip the switch

pirke86
12-14-2009, 04:39 AM
I'l do that when i've got the thing powered up, :D
i'm still busy installing it in my workshop and havent conected it to the power yet.

Where does the power cable go actually?
I cant find anything that says L1,L2,L3 .....

AndreasL
12-14-2009, 05:46 AM
Roger (or any one else):

Since the subject is drip feed and SW-levels maybe you can answer some related questions I have?

Do you know what boards/cards that has to be changed in a upgrade from 432/9 to 432/10? As far as I have found out its CPU-board, Telet-board, Graphics-card, panel and screen. Just plug ´n play?

I have a 4:th axis at my 1982 MH500C.
If the correct constants for the NC-table are set, will that be it or do one need some additional "DMG magic 4-axis big €€€"-software for this?

My machine also has got the coordinat system changed around by DMG to run in "normal" axis. Is this a hardware only modification or will it most likley be gone if I update to a 432/10? Or maybe everything will be messed up and dont work at all? If this mod only comes down to HW and MC, no problem. If HW and SW, problem...of some magnitude.

Many questions, but I think and hope you get what I mean.

Thanks!

pirke86
12-19-2009, 04:07 AM
Hey AndreasL,

I promised you pictures so here they are..

sneebot
12-21-2009, 08:22 AM
That is a 432/9 control-- I can't imagine that you'll be able to drip feed it.

AndreasL
12-21-2009, 09:26 AM
Right Snee, I have never heard about a 432/9 capable off drip feed, but I'm no expert.

Maybee you know anything regarding my question abot an 432/9 to 432/0 upgrade?

Since the axis are run bu the LM/LM and RM/LM cards I guess my conclusions are ok about the needed cards if wanting to upgrade.

Havent found out anything though about the need of custom SW for keeping any present special feature like changed axis orientations etc.

sneebot
12-21-2009, 09:30 AM
Andreas,
Not sure about the requirements for upgrade- have not had to deal with that.

I think a lot of the axis/ home information can be set in the parameters-- but I have not monkeyed with that either.

AndreasL
12-21-2009, 09:38 AM
Exactly thats what I have come up with as an conclusion of my investigations on the subject "upgrade".

I guess that its possible to find a workaruond if not being able to do it the kosher way.

Now I have to think about IF its worth gooing for a upgrade and if I do, what do I like to pay for the parts... Tempting tempting as the pile of gold is just out ther to go and get... :rolleyes:

Thanks for the photos Pirke, looks like a nice little shop you've got there.
What do you make in general?

pirke86
12-21-2009, 12:07 PM
Thanks for the photos Pirke, looks like a nice little shop you've got there.
What do you make in general?

Pretty much everything that i like to make, its my little hobby place. :D
We also make some parts here for rallycross.

AndreasL
12-21-2009, 12:16 PM
Did I hear Rallycross?

We, or at least I, need pictures. ;)

I'm a total gear head my self and with to many projects going. Most of them relating to racing cars.

pirke86
12-21-2009, 12:52 PM
i'll post a few pictures soon :D

thebodger@roger
12-22-2009, 10:45 PM
Gentelmen:

You will need a new CPU for 432-9 to 432-10 upgrade. First issue is to find one. I don't think factory DMG will help. If they do it will bee most expensive. Check with DMG foctory and see what the cost is. Second option check with some MAHO recycle guys like MAHO Doctor (google him).

Second problem. You need some intamate knowledge with the control. the new CPU will require you to re enter a bunch of new constants, along with the exsiting constants.

AS a side note on the LM / RM boards, yes they are not changed. Why?? Because the LM/RM boards are realy simple high speed input counters and D/A output stuff. Yes maybe a bit more, but not much. The CPU handles most of the tragetry stuff. Plus the CPU also does the I/O handling (PLC).


So bottom line is.

Is it easy to do?

Yes maybe ,but you will need help

Is it cheap?

Definitaly not for a hobby guy, but I don't know your bank account

Is it worth it?

I don't know, with a EMC2 retro fit, maybe. It is your call. Here is what I would do, run the machine, make some money, then look at options

Finally can you break the programs into bite size chunks that you can download? I know it's not very good, but do it this way untill you can upgrade..


all the best
thebodger

merry cristmas

AndreasL
12-23-2009, 04:14 AM
Thank you thebodger!

Finally some one that was able to confirm my thoughts.

Your idee of how to proceed very much is what I hade in mind when buying the machine. But some times you stuble over stuff by accident and has to change the plan and act to it. :)

So I guess one is pretty well suited then if you can get most of the controller cards out of the same machine togheter with MC etc.

Going trough DMG...
Did check with them and up until just resently it was possible to get an upgrade. Now you cant find i at there website so maybe its no more possible.
The cost of it...*wow*
No, Santa did not bring that kind of mooney this year either. ;)

If this will hapend ever it should be within reasonable cost.
Priorety is to get the macjin up and running and as you say, make som parts and hopfully some cash that eventually can be turned in to more tools, new controller cards or whatever feels most tempting.

Thanks again and have a nice holiday!

/AL

cncmm
12-24-2009, 11:39 AM
gentlemen the earliest drip feed maho offered was on the 432-10 control with 500 level software. These earlier CPU's only used an intel 8088 processor and could only do a simultanious 3 axis move. Even if you have a forth axis (rotary table) you can only move 3 axis simultanious. The 432-10 had an upgrade in the CPU board to an 80286. This cpu
with the upgrade to 600 level software would do a simultanious 4 axis move. Block processing speed was also vastly better.
The only problem was the memory boards used with the 8088 did not work with the 80286. this was because the 8088 was 8 bit addressing and the 80286 is 16 bit addressing.
To do an upgrade from a -9 to a -10 you need 3 boards, a cpu board a control telnet board a graphics board and a new keyboard. A used set of boards is about 4000.00 to 4500.00. If anyone is interested i know a guy who has several of these upgrades available.

pirke86
12-24-2009, 03:29 PM
so drip feeding is not an option...

is it possible to add more memory?
Because then i can also send bigger programs without drip feeding.

AndreasL
12-26-2009, 10:07 PM
cncmm: Now when you mention the issue about different bit rates (8 and 16) I remember reading about it som time ago. Thanks for reminding me.

But going for a -10 upgrade, can one just rip the -9 RAM-memory card out of the control or is it in use for something else?

In the -10 one only relies at the "on board CPU-card RAM memory ic:s"?

cncmm
12-28-2009, 01:59 PM
The memory board from the -9 dose nothing when you upgrade to a -10.......
lets not get confussed here guys the 432-9 control was 8 bit addressing....
the early 432-10 control was also 8 bit addressing although the CPU board was very diffrent. The early 432-10 control with 8 bit addressing can drip feed as long as you have 500 level software. The last level of software for a -9 control was 311. When the -10 control came out the software went to 400 level. I'm not sure if any 400 level software would drip feed. I had 405 level in my 800 C and that definately did not drip feed. The only memory upgrade that I'm aware of for the 16 bit addressing was a 1 meg board and if MY memory serves me correctly it was a 8000.00 option.

AndreasL
12-29-2009, 06:33 AM
Thanks for the great information cncmm!

I have the 311 SW today so no more to do to that if not going -10.
Or maybe I can add some RAM to the CPU board? 2 IC's has allready been added as far as I can tell and a lot of sockets is free for further extensions.

At least i THINK/HOPE this is (program) RAM as well.
But it may be that this memory IC's are adressed to other RAM-tasks so adding more at this sockets will not let me run bigger programs?

Hmm, really need a 10 upgrade...and I have not run my first chip in the machine yet. Hehehe

Me --> (chair)

cncmm
12-29-2009, 07:07 AM
Andrea, those open IC bases are for EPROMS not memory chips.
So DO NOT plug anything into them. You have a memory board in the machine
and the IC's are soldered in the board.

AndreasL
12-29-2009, 09:49 AM
I'm avare off the memoryboard.

But as far as I can tell only some of the IC:s att the CPU-card is Eproms. They are labled with SW-levels etc.

Separate (different segment) from those IC:s I have some extra spaces of a differenst kind of IC:s (CMOS, SRAM-type) that I have not seen on other then CPU boards promoted as "extended memory" etc. So why would one like to extend the ROM-memory? If the SW is there...what do you gain? Processing speed?

So I listen to what you say, but I'm only 99% convinsed. ;)

At the very different -10 CPU-board I guess all RAM is att the very same card if the memorycard from the -9 is useless after an upgrade?

Many questions and am so glad someone with knolage and insite takes the time to straighten it out. Thank you!

And to not scare you avay I hold some of the ? I have on mind for later. ;)

pirke86
01-07-2010, 04:11 PM
To check software level, do this:
MANUAL then
MENU then
DIAGNOSTIC then
CONFIGURATION CHECK
Machine will display software, along with other things.


mine doesn't seem to have a menu button.
you can see in the pictures.

How do i find out what my software version is?

AndreasL
01-07-2010, 04:24 PM
Realised the same as you pirke86 about checking the SW-level.

In the MC meny one should be able to se the SW level in N900 and N901, but I have not managed that way either. So, if any one knows and can tell step by step for the 432/9 controls, please let us know.

Frustrating to have a lot of documentation for the 432/9 and /10, but none of them are of "Absolut basic step 1A"-level. All start from what feels like step 2. :/

Anyway, I draw som squares last night with a pen in a collet.
Worked to good to be true really. =)

cncmm
01-08-2010, 07:20 AM
pirke here's the constants list from a MH700C with a manual rotary table.
there's also a master constants list. you should be able to modify the .txt file
either before or after you load the machine.If you manually input constants
112 thru 117 (these are the rs232 communication constants) you should be able to load them thru the rs232 port. Good luck and shout out if you need help.