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timan
03-24-2009, 11:33 AM
Looking at the SS20 nice machine and nicely priced. Good, Bad, Ugly thoughts on Tsugami?

tobyaxis
03-24-2009, 08:07 PM
They are well built, rigid, and durable. Set up is fairly straight forward.

All around a good machine:)

paulbaird5150
03-24-2009, 08:15 PM
the shop i work in just purchased a 1995 tsugami 25(D) does anyone have any sample programs that i could edit to use as a generic base program so i can get up and running.it uses fanuc otc controls.any help at all would be greatly appreciated.send any programming info or attached programs to paulbaird5150@gmail.com. thanks guy`s.

tobyaxis
03-24-2009, 08:16 PM
Do you have the manuals?

paulbaird5150
03-24-2009, 10:47 PM
I have one maual but the programming format is very vague and non-descriptive it only gives partial samples not an entire picture.

tobyaxis
03-24-2009, 11:31 PM
I have one maual but the programming format is very vague and non-descriptive it only gives partial samples not an entire picture.

You must be talking about the Fanuc Manual. The Manual I'm talking about is written by Tsugami. It has detailed programs and specific diagrams related to your specific machine.

The swiss I used is no longer made. It was a '94 with a Fanuc 1LE Control.

Try calling Tsugami or this http://www.remsales.com/home/resources.html

WarOzz
03-31-2009, 07:08 PM
We purchased a Tsugami BE20 V with a FMB Turbo 3-26 bar feeder about two years ago for in house parts. I had no prior experience with swiss style screw machines, just old cam driven brown & sharps but it was a quick machine to learn. With the Fanuc controls the programming is fairly straight forward, if you have written a program for any other mill or lathe you should be able to pick this up in a week or two. So far I have made over a million parts on this machine and have had only one serious crash. Not sure how it happened but we broke a cast housing were the bar feed mounts to the machine. Unfortunately this happened over the weekend when the machine was unattended so I am not sure what caused the crash. The cost of the crash about about $1000, not bad for a million parts so far. Overall this has been a great addition to our shop and I would recomend a Tsugami to anyone.

fukeneh
04-12-2009, 05:16 PM
Tsugami is a great machine. I do recommened using straight oil in the machine. I had ones sub spindle lock up because of rust. Tsugami told me it's better to run straight oil. Although if you do run straight oil I would get a mistbuster 500.

WarOzz
04-13-2009, 10:48 AM
I use M22 light cutting oil from Jokish industries in our BE20. We have a rather large facility so smoke from the oil has not been a problem so far. If it gets to be a problem a mistbuster can solve it fast. I do recomend a chip spinner though, you will waste a lot of expensive oil if you do not spin the chips.

Ed

ktkickinass
04-17-2009, 09:37 PM
Tsugamis a good machine. One of the nicest characteristics for me is the fact that its not nearly as senstive to imperfect barstock as the Star. And the Star is even equipped with that piece of junk Rotary Magic guide bush....

hacdlux
04-21-2009, 01:05 AM
i have the big brother the ss32 my observations:

having the y axis on the sub is very convenit not only for spliting cycles but also centering tools


if you use the radials on the sub you will more than likely lose the use of the the adjacent live/stationary holder


the new tsugamis have air displacement on live tools making them water safe


ive had one good crash (bar jammed in gb and slipped in main collet)and after indicating the holder back in machine runs fine(it broke a 3/8 spot drill sideways)


one final note ss 20 is a convertible to gb-less a nice feature if you want to run extruded bar(i get away with it i just run the gb loose but i have had stock where it is so in consistent it can foul up

over all a very nice freindly machine but it is a swiss and they are deffinetly diffrent

SWISS20
05-16-2009, 01:52 PM
how do the Tsugami's compare to the Citizens? We run the A and L 20mm line, and I am happy with our citizens but I have recently been looking into the Tsugami's and I am interested in there machines, as they offer more live tooling on separate gangs for the same price point as an L20, I know there is alot of people who like either or, but im really looking for input from any persons who has worked with both the machines to know the ups and downs, thanks

BAD DOG
05-16-2009, 04:02 PM
WE ARE LOOKING AT THE SAME MACHINE,,,,,,HAS ANYONE USED THE MACHINE WITH THE CHUCKER OPTION.

PLEASE CALL ME AND LET'S TALK.

DOUG
651-653-0048 DAYS

PixMan
05-22-2009, 11:00 AM
I don't know if any of you looking for a "convertible" machine would be interested, but when I was at the Eastec show I found that Maier USA has one that is going for about $125K complete. I think it's called a ML Hybrid. I'm not sure about the size, but I believe it's 26mm machine.

They use Fanuc controls, and have forced-air cooled spindles, cast polymer bases, and live tools that are the same ones used on Star machines. Looked like a good deal if you're a Fanuc-oriented user.

tobyaxis
05-22-2009, 04:10 PM
I don't know if any of you looking for a "convertible" machine would be interested, but when I was at the Eastec show I found that Maier USA has one that is going for about $125K complete. I think it's called a ML Hybrid. I'm not sure about the size, but I believe it's 26mm machine.

They use Fanuc controls, and have forced-air cooled spindles, cast polymer bases, and live tools that are the same ones used on Star machines. Looked like a good deal if you're a Fanuc-oriented user.

Thanks for the info. I'll have to pass this over a few desks:)

Scanfab
05-24-2009, 05:13 AM
I'm starting up a S16 TSUGAMI from 1995 and it has a few working programs in it, test ran it 16 hours with no problems.. Once we get the programs loaded onto a computer, I can share them as a base program including synk both chucks to feed part past tool, cutoff and work on subspindle, part catcher etc...

carzaqpca
01-28-2011, 03:34 PM
hi, i just start with this machine it has a fanuc 3/ia control, could you share some programs, i need samples to change my post processor, i'm using mastercam, my email is carzaqp@gmail.com.
Thank you

hacdlux
01-28-2011, 08:48 PM
heres some sample ops, honestly the start and end are always the same your just changing part lengths

i have started an ss post for mastercam, but only the main side, it does have the ability to set the g300 and cutoff sync but no milling yet

main

O3011(PRESSURE INDICATOR)
M91
/M61

M93012

N10(START UP)
M501
G00G18G99T0/M08
M11
G300X-0.08Z1.256T0800
G150Z-0.008
M10
G00X5.4331Z-0.04T0
M502

N20(FRONT FACING)
M13S6000G00Z0.0T2525
X0.705
G99G01X-0.08F0.0028
Z-0.04F0.08
G41X0.545
X0.705Z0.04F0.0028
G40G00X5.4331W0.0T0

GOTO1000

N25(SLOTTING SAW)
G28U0M8
T0M5
M8
T0303
M50
G28H0.
M82
M23S3500
G98
G1X0Y0F236.
G1Z.125F12.
Y.290F20.
Y-.290F20.
Z-.06F40.
Y0
G28U0M25
T0
m51

N45(SPOT CENTER)
T1818M3S4000
G0X0Y0
G99G1Z.238F.002
G4X.2
Z-.04
G28U0
T0

N100(CUT OFF BACK-SP)
T0800
M503
M13S3200G00Z1.025T0808
X0.705
M504
M56
M53
M505
M506
M20

M98P707002

G01X-0.08F0.0016
M57
M507

N110(END OFF)
M508
M95
/M92
M96

/M61
G04U0.3

M97
M509
M30
%


N1000


sub
%
O3012(PRESSURE INDICATOR; .625 PICKUP COLLET)

#500=0.0(1.0 SKIPS BACKWORK)

N10(START UP)
M501
G00G18G98T0
G310Z13.7795Y0.0T9900
M502

IF[#500EQ1.0]GOTO1000


N30(.25 ENDMILL)
M104S4000T3737
Z0.04
G99G83Z-.765F.006P2000
G28W0.
T0
N20(#32 DRILL)
T3333
M123S2000
G00Z0.04
M104S5000
G99G1Z-.060F.001
G0Z.04
G99G83Z-.935F0.0024P2000
G80
Z0.04F0.08
G28W0
T0

N1000

N60(WORK SEPARETOR)
G00Z13.7795T0
M105T9900
M17
G04U0.5
G00Z13.7795T0
M21
M78
G4U.5
M79
M18
G04U0.5
M28
G28W0
T0

N90(CUT OFF BACK-SP)
M503
M21
M105G00X0.0T9999
M103S1500Z1.003
M504
M505
G98G01Z.100F236.0
M506
M507

N100(END OFF)
M508
G00Z13.7795Y0.0T0M105
M509
M30
%

mikeswiss
10-08-2011, 12:45 PM
The Tsugami's are great machines. If you have an older Tsugami like an S16, S20, S25 and are interested in adding more tool positions I can help. We converted ours and now have 10 O/D turning positions. This greatly reduces your set-up time by allowing residential tooling. If interested contact me and we can discuss this.

JMS4287
10-10-2011, 11:46 AM
And the Star is even equipped with that piece of junk Rotary Magic guide bush....

HAHAHAHA...I just had to laugh at that one...been there..

namder1
10-21-2011, 06:23 PM
MThe company I work for just ordered a Tsugami. I forget which model. I am going for a 3 day training. However I have no experience with screw machines, only cnc mills and lathes a few years ago. I am familiar with Fanuc tho. Are these pretty user friendly machines to program and run?

DCogswell
10-22-2011, 11:55 AM
MThe company I work for just ordered a Tsugami. I forget which model. I am going for a 3 day training. However I have no experience with screw machines, only cnc mills and lathes a few years ago. I am familiar with Fanuc tho. Are these pretty user friendly machines to program and run?

I really like their dry run and program check modes. It makes prove out and set-up easier. You should find out what model and load the Abile software into your computer and start to learn before you go for training.

namder1
10-23-2011, 11:38 AM
OK, what is Abile software? The machine is model S206 but my boss may upgrade to the S207 which has larger capacity.

PixMan
10-23-2011, 12:00 PM
Tsugami's Abile software is what allowed me to put a disc in a PC, and with zero software training, create, upload and run a very complex 3-channel program on a new BW-12. It's easier to use than Partmaker, puts out clean code from the git-go, and is free with the machine. Nothing I've ever seen could compete.

hacdlux
10-23-2011, 12:19 PM
s207 has programable b axis(5 axis) still a 20 mm

abile is a basic cam software that comes with the machine

when i got my ss 32 i only had 6 months of lathe experience and 3 days of apps training, we now run almost every part under 1.25" in this machine because of its versatility

i strongly advise getting the chucker kit, that way you can avoid the learning curve associated with the guide bushing and if youre going to run the guide bushing buy the best stock you can.

the deadman walk thru will save you a lot of pain although it does get tiring after 5 minutes or so

underthetire
10-23-2011, 12:29 PM
Agree With the chucker option. Guide bushing machines really need ground bar stock. The tsugamis were hit and miss when I serviced them. 80percent ran without any issues, then the others were a pia. They all seem to be more rigid and tougher than the rest. It was model specific. The s series were usually pretty good. Guess I should back up a little... Tsugami also made other machines at the time, and had come out with different products, that I'm sure they finally got the bugs out. That was some time ago. you may or may not be aware, but Mori seiki has a partnership or Owns part of tsugami, and reps them in Europe, just not in the states yet. I never had issues getting parts or someone on the phone. Rem sales was the importer for the us, selling through other distributors out of there territory.

LATHEGIRL
06-22-2012, 11:18 AM
Tsugami's Abile software is what allowed me to put a disc in a PC, and with zero software training, create, upload and run a very complex 3-channel program on a new BW-12. It's easier to use than Partmaker, puts out clean code from the git-go, and is free with the machine. Nothing I've ever seen could compete.


I had this software on my desk top computer and loved it. Now that I have my lap top and it has a 64 bit operating system my computer will not take it. Anyone have a 64 bit copy they could share?? I miss the ease of use that it offered as I am just starting out in programming and am very unfamiliar with any type of CAM software.

SirDenisNayland
06-22-2012, 02:48 PM
I had this software on my desk top computer and loved it. Now that I have my lap top and it has a 64 bit operating system my computer will not take it. Anyone have a 64 bit copy they could share?? I miss the ease of use that it offered as I am just starting out in programming and am very unfamiliar with any type of CAM software.

right click the application start exe and under the compatibility tab choose to run it in "compatibility" mode by clicking the radio button and selecting something like windows xp from the drop down list. this is how you run most 32 bit programs on 64 bit systems if you're having issues

should help

LATHEGIRL
06-22-2012, 03:20 PM
Thank you so much I will try that Monday when I get back to work!!:)

elsanch
07-06-2012, 07:49 AM
that machine kicks butt... so many diddferent things you can do. ever seen a thread whirlrer?

LATHEGIRL
07-06-2012, 08:04 AM
I have been running a Tsugami SS20 for about 9 months now and absolutely love it. We have installed a thread whirler and it is so much better than trying to single point everything!! Have to say I like our Tsugami better than I like our Star SR20.

LATHEGIRL
07-06-2012, 08:29 AM
MThe company I work for just ordered a Tsugami. I forget which model. I am going for a 3 day training. However I have no experience with screw machines, only cnc mills and lathes a few years ago. I am familiar with Fanuc tho. Are these pretty user friendly machines to program and run?

I have only been programming since September and have learned how so far on our SS20. I had a great trainer from REM sales that showed me the ropes, but yes it is pretty user friendly. If you have abasic understanding of M & G codes you should be ok. That is really all I have and I have been very successful with the machine. If you have the Abile software that came with the machine you should have absolutely no problems programming. Just draw the part and let the software do the rest. Good luck!!

hacdlux
07-06-2012, 02:06 PM
the cool thing about the ss is it really is two machines on one casting,

you only need wait codes for transfering parts and using the tool 40-45 positions

when were running aluminum we can leave the machine running for a month without touching the control/tools, we even replaced the stock parts bucket with a 5 galon bucket

mine is now about 4 years old running 24/7 most of the time, other than having bearings done in tool drive units the thing is always running,

LATHEGIRL
07-06-2012, 02:21 PM
Do you use the "dog leg" bars for tools 41-46? I haven't had the need to use ours, yet. It definitely is a machine that is built to last!!!

hacdlux
07-06-2012, 02:42 PM
those positions are the backside of 17-22 i only run drills back there, and you have to watch how far they stick out,

i had a long double ended holder sticking out the back and it caught the parts catcher and drove it down into my z2 apron, $1000 later and a lot of hammering and swearing and i had it running the next day

those positions can also hit the subspindle on partoff but i have an ss32 so it might not be an issue with a 20 with its smaller spindls

SirDenisNayland
07-06-2012, 02:56 PM
those positions are the backside of 17-22 i only run drills back there, and you have to watch how far they stick out,

i had a long double ended holder sticking out the back and it caught the parts catcher and drove it down into my z2 apron, $1000 later and a lot of hammering and swearing and i had it running the next day

those positions can also hit the subspindle on partoff but i have an ss32 so it might not be an issue with a 20 with its smaller spindls

One of those over confidence I don't need to single block or run st 5% rapid moments eh?

Aren't those just the best :)

hacdlux
07-06-2012, 03:05 PM
more like i ran this program 6 times and never had a problem

butt ---- i skipped around a form tool and a .018 id groove tool and shortened the cycle time on the sub by a minute. parts catcher wrong place wrong time.

actually tsugamis have a very nice deadman feature where you have to spin the mpg to make the program run, and you sit there like vouve got a big ol bass on the end and keep on reeling

mikeswiss
10-23-2012, 12:26 PM
I agree Tsugami is a good machine however the live tools are a little too far off the guidebushing. This is a problem when doing any small diameter work or machining anything in Nylon or soft plastics.

I also agree with the recommendation to use oil verses water based coolant. The live tool bearings will rust out very fast and they're kind of a ***** to replace. Hangsterfers Hardcut NG CF is awesome. I've drilled a .015 diameter hole nearly an inch deep using this oil. Although that was on a Tornos TB Deco.

Mike

andys2006
03-26-2015, 07:57 PM
Looking at the SS20 nice machine and nicely priced. Good, Bad, Ugly thoughts on Tsugami?

Run far and fast they are junk

jamessiffel
03-27-2015, 08:19 PM
Run far and fast they are junk

You do realize this post is old? Tsugami is far from junk my friend, i think your either joking or not very skilled.