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daisydog
01-11-2009, 11:07 PM
I bought a used 22x22 moving table Multicam it came out of Bell Helicopter where they used it in there lab. It's approximately 8 years old and very clean.

I have experience using a Wincnc controller that uses a pc to run files and execute commands using either the keyboard or the buttons on the interface. The controller on the Multicam does not use a pc and any manual commands are entered using a pendant,(which is broken).

The controller nameplate calls for 460v/15A. The spindle is a Perske 2hp at 380V, there is a transformer in the controller cabinet to convert the 460v to 380v before the power goes to the invertor. The controller has three boards, (drivers or amps) one for each axis. Various other boards, breakers, fuses, capacitors, resistors, relays, etc.. Harware includes a tool touch off pad, proximity home limit swithes, and coolant lines. It is capable of tool offsets, spindle speed and on off. All the wiring is clearly numbered and everything is neat and orderly, it looks like nothing has been altered.

When under power everything seems to power up but the axis motors won't run and the spindle will not run.

The pendant has a mechanical e stop and a mechanical two position switch, these both work but none of the other switches do and the l.e.d. read out does not light up. The switches that do not work are all touch swithes that make contact on a computer style board that is full of solder joints and has two 3/4" square computer chips. The pendant looks like a small computerer itself.

My questions are:

1) Can this be practically converted to single phase 230V. I am willing to replace the invertor.

2) If single phase is not practical is 230v 3 phase practical.

3) How to reconfigure the wiring in the Perske. It is dual voltage 380 or 230 three phase.

4) Repair the pendant or replace it.

5) How to load files and run files, (there is an unused 9 pin plug on the side of the contoller cabinet, is this for a pc or some type of memory device)?

Anybody have any advice or know of a place to contact that does this type of work? Advice is preferable, this looks like a fun project.

Thanks,

Joe

SCRAPWOTSCRAP
01-12-2009, 02:09 PM
Multicam routers typically need to be homed before they will allow you jog the axes or enable the spindle. Not sure what your particular pendant looks like but homing is accomplished by pressing shift key (up arrow in blue) followed by machine home (green key with x and y axis with corresponding zeros). After the machine homes, you'll be able to jog the axes and enable the spindle.

The nine pin connector is a serial connection. Multicam routers are dnc "drip fed" via a host computer with proprietary software (MX32 or Jobserver, depending on the age of the machine).

The two position switch is likely the spindle enable switch, which you would engage following homing the machine.

Typically converting the perskes is a simple jumper config to change voltages.

Where are you located???

daisydog
01-12-2009, 10:10 PM
Hello,

I am in Kalamazoo, Michigan, 18" of snow and 9 degrees may as well work on a machine.

I talked to the Multicam distributor for the area today, and was able to spend about 20 minutes with a tech. He said the reason the command pendant or console in this case is not working is the board that is in it, or one of the two chips on it is faulty, or the 5.09 volt supply from the main controller is out of adjustment or shot. I am hoping it is a chip or the voltage supply because the board is not available and to do any replacing would require an extensive and expensive upgrade. I would probably switch to a cmsoft controller if this is the case.

If anybody knows of old Multicam controller consoles let me know.

What should I expect to run into if replacing the controller turns out to be the best option, and between Camsoft and Wincnc which is easier to retrofit, which is the better unit?

Thanks,

Joe

SCRAPWOTSCRAP
01-13-2009, 09:46 AM
Sent you a private message.

daisydog
01-13-2009, 10:15 PM
Multicam distributor from G.R. Michigan was very helpful and sent owners manual version 4. I don't think this manual is specifically for my machine more of a generic manual for a certain era. If anybody has one let me know.

I have attached some photos:

xjdubber
01-20-2009, 07:57 PM
does the pendant display power up?

daisydog
01-20-2009, 09:08 PM
The pendant does not power up. I have talked with the Multicam dist and told to replace the 5v power supply. The part should be in tomorrow. When the pendant receives 5v it should work. We shall know soon.

ddog

SCRAPWOTSCRAP
01-21-2009, 09:48 AM
Jackpot d-dog!! Dubber is ex Multicam service tech, if I recall correctly.

daisydog
01-21-2009, 09:03 PM
New 5v supply is installed. The output read zero. So I traced back the output wires to the mother board. They connect to a plug with eight screw in terminals. The black wire #310 went to a terminal labeled 0v the white wire wire #311 went the next terminal labeled +5. There were two other terminals on the plug being used.

The pendant showed no sign of power the manual e-stop works and the 2 position spindle switch works but no led readouts. I disconnected the black wire from the mother board and the power supply began working putting out 5.07 volts. As soon as the black wire was reconnected the power supply shut-off. There is a green led that lights up when the power supply is working. On the mother board there is an led that is labeled 5v, this led has not lit up since I have had the machine, all other leds on the mboard are lit up.

What does the 0v mean and what does it do and how can it be repaired?

Thanks for Ideas.

Joe
ddog

xjdubber
01-29-2009, 02:04 AM
New 5v supply is installed. The output read zero. So I traced back the output wires to the mother board. They connect to a plug with eight screw in terminals. The black wire #310 went to a terminal labeled 0v the white wire wire #311 went the next terminal labeled +5. There were two other terminals on the plug being used.

The pendant showed no sign of power the manual e-stop works and the 2 position spindle switch works but no led readouts. I disconnected the black wire from the mother board and the power supply began working putting out 5.07 volts. As soon as the black wire was reconnected the power supply shut-off. There is a green led that lights up when the power supply is working. On the mother board there is an led that is labeled 5v, this led has not lit up since I have had the machine, all other leds on the mboard are lit up.

What does the 0v mean and what does it do and how can it be repaired?

Thanks for Ideas.

Joe
ddog

means you got a short, check the wiring with an ohmeter to see what you read for ohms should be infinite, disconnect the pendant and power up and check the volt display mean. sorry bout replying so late its weird every other thread i reply too it starts sending me emails about new msgs but not this one for some reason.

xjdubber
01-29-2009, 02:06 AM
oh and the multicam controller is made by extratech http://www.extratech.com/ they might (emphasis on might) give you some help as well

daisydog
01-29-2009, 09:09 PM
Thanks Dubber, I'll check for short circuits next week, I'm on vacation this week.

Joe Ddog

xjdubber
02-07-2009, 08:22 PM
find the problem yet?

daisydog
02-07-2009, 11:13 PM
Thanks for asking dubber, I was on vacation last week and this week I have been catching up on work and fighting a flu bug. Sunday I am going to work on the controller though. I hope to isolate the three phase 460 requirments so I can run the thing on 240 volt single phase. Do you know if anything besides the vfd for the spindle requires the three phase, and what are the electrical requirments are for the rest of the controller.

Thanks,

Joe Ddog

daisydog
02-09-2009, 04:58 PM
Spent three hours Sunday trying to track down the short, eventually everything was unplugged from the mother board and the short was still there. The only way the 5v transformer would work was if the black wire to the mother board was disconnected from the 0v terminal.

Does this mean the mother board is bad and how can this problem be isolated.

Thanks,

Joe Ddog

xjdubber
02-09-2009, 09:54 PM
Spent three hours Sunday trying to track down the short, eventually everything was unplugged from the mother board and the short was still there. The only way the 5v transformer would work was if the black wire to the mother board was disconnected from the 0v terminal.

Does this mean the mother board is bad and how can this problem be isolated.

Thanks,

Joe Ddog

did you get the motion mechanic software at all with the machine? it would be ice to see whether the board even boots up. ill see if ihave it somewhere.

daisydog
02-09-2009, 10:06 PM
Hi Dubber, no software with machine. Do you think that once this problem is found that the parts needed to fix will be findable? Also can the controller be partially replaced and just eliminate the faulty parts. I would like to at least replace the 460volt part of the system.

Thanks for everything so far.

Joe Ddog

SCRAPWOTSCRAP
02-10-2009, 10:27 AM
Wondering if he needs MC motion controller for that machine versus Motion Mechanic (later machines) or is Motion Mechanic backward compatible??? That might be good for me to know since I have machines running with both types of software.

xjdubber
02-10-2009, 01:13 PM
Wondering if he needs MC motion controller for that machine versus Motion Mechanic (later machines) or is Motion Mechanic backward compatible??? That might be good for me to know since I have machines running with both types of software.


yes motion mechanic will work to connect to the machine however the newer dnc will most likely not work so well.

SCRAPWOTSCRAP
02-10-2009, 01:19 PM
I might have MX32 laying around here somewhere....that was the old DNC right?? Will that run in any Windows platform?? Wondering what d-dog has for operating system?

daisydog
02-10-2009, 05:20 PM
Hi Scraps good to hear from you again. The tech at the Grand Rapids, MI store said I would need Dnc software.

It,s so warm here I got heated up working in an attic today, and I,m knee deep in mud in my driveway. Well worth it to get 60 degree day in Feb..

Keep any new suggestions coming I,ll try them till this thing is cutting wood.

Thanks,

Joe Ddog

SCRAPWOTSCRAP
02-11-2009, 01:29 PM
I assume you went somewhere warm for your vacation, and I personally want to thank you for bringing that warmth back up here!!! Was 62 here (Wisconsin) yesterday.....the grill was smellin good last night!!! Standing by here, Dub has waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more expertise than I do, I will jump in when I can help. Once you get that controller fired up, thinkin I can help with some things.


Laterrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

xjdubber
02-11-2009, 11:01 PM
Post up some pictures of the controls, it will help refresh things in my mind. Everthing should be able to convert from 440 to 240 1 ph but i need the specs on the spindle and a pic of the control box, get some detailed up close pics of all the parts too if you can. If the controller is dead your best bet would be to convert to mach3 with a smoothstepper board. But lets figure things out first.

daisydog
02-12-2009, 10:47 PM
Hello Dubbber,

Here are some pictures. Maybe not they are to large I'll try to zip them. I am not sure how this will work I may have to download Winzip and play around with it for a while.

Back Soon,

Ddog

daisydog
02-13-2009, 10:52 PM
Hello, we'll try sending pictures again but first heres some spindle specs,
Perske 3phase
delta 220-220v 6.9-6.5 A
2hp- 2hp .7-.8 sf
300-400 hz

Y 380-380v 4.0 - 3.7A
2.0-2.0 hp .7- .8 sf
300-400hz
Theres a jumper across the leads on the top t1,t2 and t3 on the bottom the leads are 4, 6 and 5.

Now lets see how these pictures come out.

daisydog
02-13-2009, 11:00 PM
Those came out so good I think I'll send som more.

Thanks for everything so far Dubber by the way what is a soft breakout board? Should I remove the two controler boards and test them with an Ohm meter for a short. What all should be checked and how is it done.

daisydog
02-13-2009, 11:06 PM
Just a few more if you need more detailed picturesw that you can zoom in on pm me your e-mail and I,ll send them to you.

Thanks Again,

Joe Ddog

daisydog
02-18-2009, 05:09 PM
Well I've disconnected everything from the motherboard and the 5.09v feed still shuts off when the 0 wire is hooked up to the motherboard, if just the + wire is connected the 5.09v output continues. Does this mean a short in the motherboard or some other problem. How can this problem be tracked down.

If this is not fixable would a flashcut software and signal generator be a good replacement. From what I have read Flashcut is easy to install and works well, I just don't know if it is the correct application to replace what I have.

What Do You Think?

Ddog

xjdubber
02-18-2009, 09:15 PM
Its really hard to say without being there to look at it, is the pendant disconnected at this point as well? I personally would not choose Flashcut, I have a plasma cutter with it and am contemplating to set it up with mach 3. soft breakout board? I guess I meant smoothstepper board and its the means of communcation between the computer and a program like mach 3 and your machine. that conversion should not cost you more than $500 or so. Except for the spindle drive then you'll have to find out if you can run that at 240v and if it can run single phase.

If everything is disconnected from the board and it still goes to zero volts the last thing that could be checked is the red relay at the top of the board, the coil could be bad in it and shorting. after that it has to be the board.

daisydog
02-22-2009, 01:46 PM
The Opto 22 g4 odc5 appears to be bad, when I put a 5v feed to it the led does not light and the output light on the 5v transformer goes off. I ordered a new Opto, cheap enough under $20 delivered. I will know soon if this is the magic fix.

If not its time to look at new controller and breakout board.

I have looked at the cnc4pc c-23 dual port board and the smoothstepper motion contoller or the Campbell combo board.

Any suggestion let me know I am getting anxious to get this machine going.

Thanks

Joe Ddog

MAS
02-02-2014, 09:32 AM
FlashcutCNC is the only way to go. I have F.C. on my plasma cutter since 2001 and it works GREAT.
I tried mach 3 on it too for a short while and it ended up in the dumpster.
'You get what you pay for'.