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MasterDesigns
11-25-2008, 11:25 AM
Since I can only get one email out of Jack from RAMS Support per 24 hour period, I thought I'd post here for some opinions while I wait for my next email reply tomorrow.

Our company did a re-structure and changed names. In the process, we lost the data on the computer that had the software keys for both our RAMS 3D and RAMS TRACE. We still have the software, but just need the keys re-emailed to us.

I contacted Jack at Rams Software, provided him our info and purchase date, and he emailed a confirmation that our paid registration was found for both products. However, he is requiring an additional "$395.00 fee for key re-generation and re-licensing of the two products". This doesn't seem right for software we have already purchased and rightfully own.

I cannot find anywhere on the RAMS website that it lists the $395 fee for updating records and re-emailing the keys. I can understand a small fee of $25 or something, but not $395!

RAMSSupport
11-25-2008, 02:01 PM
Opinion:

The software and router were originally sold to a company in Tenn. in 2006. Now in 2008, RAMS gets a request for a key from a different company in AZ.

This is not a simple "Resend The Key" request. There are records to change for two products, two keys to re-generate, Two keys to e-mail and undoubtedly further support costs since we have never heard of Robert or his present company until now. RAMS has already answered many support requests from the original owner... and should (will) be compensated for any and all future services.

Bottom line is if you want to use ANY companies resources, be prepared to pay. Just below that line is the one that says... if you want to go out and gripe & complain about charges for services " YOU " want... tell the entire story.

Jack. RAMS Support
















Since I can only get one email out of Jack from RAMS Support per 24 hour period, I thought I'd post here for some opinions while I wait for my next email reply tomorrow.

Our company did a re-structure and changed names. In the process, we lost the data on the computer that had the software keys for both our RAMS 3D and RAMS TRACE. We still have the software, but just need the keys re-emailed to us.

I contacted Jack at Rams Software, provided him our info and purchase date, and he emailed a confirmation that our paid registration was found for both products. However, he is requiring an additional "$395.00 fee for key re-generation and re-licensing of the two products". This doesn't seem right for software we have already purchased and rightfully own.

I cannot find anywhere on the RAMS website that it lists the $395 fee for updating records and re-emailing the keys. I can understand a small fee of $25 or something, but not $395!

MasterDesigns
11-25-2008, 02:20 PM
Wow....24 hours for you to respond to my emails, and only 2 hours for you to respond to a post on a public forum. I guess I learned how to get a quicker response from you!

FYI....your post didn't tell anymore of "the story" then I had originally posted. From the PM's I've received from others on this forum today, I guess I'm not the only one that feels $395.00 is WAY out of line. Too bad others don't want to post their opinions on here due to your harsh nature Jack. Is that why Rams Software company doesn't list ANY phone numbers on their website?

I found this interesting:
Copied from a July 16th, 2007 post from Rhino3d.com
"I have not had the opportunity to try the RAMS 3D product. When I did attempt to contact them, all I got was a VERY abusive email from someone named 'Jack'. I went on the forums to see if I could find some contact information for them and what I found there was even MORE abusive conduct by this 'Jack' person. He was actually berating potential customers on the public forums. His latest tirade against one of the forum members who was trying to register his copy of RAMS 3D was totally outrageous. I feel for the poor guy (NOT Jack), but I am certainly glad that I read those posts before proceeding to attempt a purchase of their software."

RAMSSupport
11-25-2008, 02:33 PM
This is the last I will comment here on this subject.

As of January 1 2007, RAMS sales and support to the public sector went to e-mail only.

As I explained in the FIRST e-mail I sent you this morning, we are busy... e-mails are answered in the order they arrive.

Check your E-mail, I replied with a SECOND e-mail right after rtesponding to your first entry here.

Nuff said.

Jack. RAMS Support

MasterDesigns
11-25-2008, 02:36 PM
Copied from an email I just received from Jack at RAMS Software:
"I have flagged the reference to this license closed. If you would like to use RAMS at any future time you will need to re-purchase RAMS at the retail price."

So that is my punishment for posting this in a public forum on the internet Jack? You canceled my license and registration for the two software packages we purchased from RAMS Software? Well, if that is what it cost me to expose the truth and true dealings of RAMS Software to the public, then I feel I did everyone a service. I have EVERY right to ask if $395.00 is a fair charge in a public forum, and if you feel better by deleting my registration for the $1,490.00 products we already purchased, then you go right ahead. I've already made my assumptions on you Jack and RAMS Software, and reading other posts on the internet, I'm not the only one! No wonder manufactures are no longer bundling your software with their machines anymore.

jhowelb
11-25-2008, 02:38 PM
No excuse for abusive or even abrasive treatment of customers never mind the kiss my butt and pay me for the privilege attitude.

RAMSSupport
11-25-2008, 02:45 PM
No, I did not flag the account because you decided to post here. Thats fine...post all you want.

I flagged the account because in your e-mail you indicated you were not interested in paying the fee.

Jack.
RAMS Support






Copied from an email I just received from Jack at RAMS Software:
"I have flagged the reference to this license closed. If you would like to use RAMS at any future time you will need to re-purchase RAMS at the retail price."

So that is my punishment for posting this in a public forum on the internet Jack? You canceled my license and registration for the two software packages we purchased from RAMS Software? Well, if that is what it cost me to expose the truth and true dealings of RAMS Software to the public, then I feel I did everyone a service. I have EVERY right to ask if $395.00 is a fair charge in a public forum, and if you feel better by deleting my registration for the $1,490.00 products we already purchased, then you go right ahead. I've already made my assumptions on you Jack and RAMS Software, and reading other posts on the internet, I'm not the only one! No wonder manufactures are no longer bundling your software with their machines anymore.

ger21
11-25-2008, 08:26 PM
$395 sounded reasonable to me. We have 2 seats of a ~15K cabinet software package. We hadn't used 1 seat in a few years, and when I wanted to install it on a new PC, we had to pay the $2K annual support fee to get the license code. And we had been paying support for almost 10 years, and it had just lapsed a few months prior.

harley4ever
11-25-2008, 09:38 PM
Sounds like more of a customer service issue than the actual cost itself.

dertsap
11-25-2008, 10:42 PM
does your company have the reciept for the software purchase ,i'm just assuming you would be able to find some proof of purchase seeing as how you would have used those records for tax reasons , at least then you can have something solid to show them that you did indeed buy the software
not to take sides but without any solid proof of purchase , changing the company name , moving states and loosing the computer data just sounds unreal

MasterDesigns
11-25-2008, 10:53 PM
does your company have the reciept for the software purchase ,i'm just assuming you would be able to find some proof of purchase seeing as how you would have used those records for tax reasons , at least then you can have something solid to show them that you did indeed buy the software
not to take sides but without any solid proof of purchase , changing the company name and moving states and loosing the computer data just sounds unreal

When we first contacted RAMS for another copy of the key, they could not find our registration but stated "We will be happy to help you purchase the RAMS 3D and the RAMS Trace Editions and have you as a RAMS Software customer." We then provided additional info and the purchase date, and RAMS emailed a day later and told me they found our registration in the archives and acknowledged we did pay for the software, but now it would be $395.00 for the new key and to change the company name in the computer. There is no question on anyone's part that we have paid for the software and are the owners. The problem developed when I questioned the $395.00 fee, stated I did not feel we should have to pay additional money for software we already purchased, and made a post on this forum this morning asking for opinions. Out of spite, Jack from RAMS Software has now removed the option for us to pay $395.00 by deleting our paid registration and requiring us to pay full retail for another copy of the software.

Ican
11-25-2008, 10:56 PM
Call ArtCam and tell them you lost your key. They will tell you how so very sorry they are for you and that for $8,500.00 they will put you right back in business. Thats while you pay $1,400.00 a year for their Advantage program!!!! Of course you do get some discounts that get you part of the Advantage program money back.... IF you don't count what you spend to get the discounts.

Like I tell my help, Ain't no free lunch! Ican. (flame2)

cnc2
11-26-2008, 03:18 PM
To me this Jack is a bad marketer, instead of getting new customers he trys to "milk" the actual ones to reach the goals of his cheaf...with a proof you did pay, what would it take'em to resend you the key ? hiring a DBA to find your key in their databese ??? i don't think so !...

So, 395$ to send an email with the key (sending emails is still free) and if they had to pay for that they would have to charge you 395$ for deleting your registration (they didn't need a DBA for that :nono:)...what would it be if they had to send you the key by UPS ?

MasterDesigns, what do you need the key for ? (i mean legal issues)

cnc2.

dcorbett
11-26-2008, 05:37 PM
Jack,

It sounds like the guy, though a bit incredulous, was asking an honest question. Your response seems a bit heavy-handed, especially when viewed in the light of a public forum.
However "unreasonable" the $395 might seem to the rest of us DIY, the response has left a bad taste in all our mouths, even if we are not privy to all the details.
Was the license non-transferable or restricted? Not sure of the details (again, our perspective here is limited, and perhaps a bit biased), but defensiveness comes off as a cover-up, even if the customer is/was unreasonable/unaware of the amount of time it requires from your company (trying to maintain a semblance of profitability) to look up, transfer, record, etc. the "new" key.
Good luck,

Doug

We're all in this together, even if we think we are on opposite sides.

RAMSSupport
11-26-2008, 06:05 PM
No, not correct.
RAMS has a record of a licensed user from TN. that was named Gayie Technologies. We have no record with your name or the company name Master Designs in our records either in TN. or AZ.

Further... in an earlier posting, you claim to have paid $1,490.00 for the software in 2006.. which you would not have. That figure is no where near correct. So far, you have not even supplied a name to RAMS that was on the RAMS contact list for Gayie Technologies.

When you first e-mailed, Jack couldn't find the Gayie Technologies registration in the current list. He had to search the adchives. Jack took you for your word and offered the $395.00 fee.

There is no spite here. You are the one that decided to make a posting here on CNC Zone to complain about the fee. Jack has orders to respond to things like this and he did so. You wrote a rather hateful e-mail declining the $395.00 offer so Jack Closed the license which ended the offer.

Jack I admit is a little plain spoken and doesn't conform too well sometimes to the very best customer relations communications. He is quick to give what he gets in an e-mail. There is a reason we lovingly here call him "Jack" The Ass. That being said, he did try to work with you and made you a standard offer... even without any sort of proof that you were a licensed RAMS user. We all try to think the world operates on a high degree of honesty.

So, setting the record straight, there is no spite, you didn't pay $1490.00 to RAMS, and the offer ended because you delined it and only for that reason.

We wish everyone a Happy Thanksgiving.

Ken.
SRVP RAMS Software.



When we first contacted RAMS for another copy of the key, they could not find our registration but stated "We will be happy to help you purchase the RAMS 3D and the RAMS Trace Editions and have you as a RAMS Software customer." We then provided additional info and the purchase date, and RAMS emailed a day later and told me they found our registration in the archives and acknowledged we did pay for the software, but now it would be $395.00 for the new key and to change the company name in the computer. There is no question on anyone's part that we have paid for the software and are the owners. The problem developed when I questioned the $395.00 fee, stated I did not feel we should have to pay additional money for software we already purchased, and made a post on this forum this morning asking for opinions. Out of spite, Jack from RAMS Software has now removed the option for us to pay $395.00 by deleting our paid registration and requiring us to pay full retail for another copy of the software.

MasterDesigns
11-26-2008, 07:35 PM
No, not correct.
RAMS has a record of a licensed user from TN. that was named Gayie Technologies. We have no record with your name or the company name Master Designs in our records either in TN. or AZ.

So your records are outdated, why does that matter? If a business goes through a re-structure, why do you think it is our responsibility to inform you? ...What, so you can charge US to change YOUR records?


Further... in an earlier posting, you claim to have paid $1,490.00 for the software in 2006.. which you would not have. That figure is no where near correct.

I was quoting the current cost of the two software packages. The software was bundled with our machine, so I don't know what the actual cost was in 2006, but we paid for it nonetheless.


So far, you have not even supplied a name to RAMS that was on the RAMS contact list for Gayie Technologies.

You asked for the company name, not a contact name. We provided what you asked for.


When you first e-mailed, Jack couldn't find the Gayie Technologies registration in the current list. He had to search the archives. Jack took you for your word and offered the $395.00 fee.

WRONG! Jack offered the $395.00 fee AFTER he found our registration in the archives. Here is the original email I received from Jack:
"Thank you for the date of purchase by Gayie Technologies. When we looked back in the archives, we did find the registration. Due to ownership change, there will be a $395.00 fee for key re-generation and re-licensing of the two products to your company."


There is no spite here. You are the one that decided to make a posting here on CNC Zone to complain about the fee.

Asking for others opinions is NOT complaining. Grow up.


You wrote a rather hateful e-mail declining the $395.00 offer so Jack Closed the license which ended the offer.

Hateful? Give me a break...you are making your company look worse every post you or Jack makes. Here is my original email that you claim is so HATEFUL!!
Where on your website does it list the $395 fee for updating records and re-emailing the keys? We will not be spending any additional money on software we have already paid for and rightfully own.


Jack I admit is a little plain spoken and doesn't conform too well sometimes to the very best customer relations communications. He is quick to give what he gets in an e-mail. There is a reason we lovingly here call him "Jack" The Ass. That being said, he did try to work with you and made you a standard offer... even without any sort of proof that you were a licensed RAMS user. We all try to think the world operates on a high degree of honesty.

Maybe Jack is costing your company more money then you think. It is a bit alarming the PM's I've received about Jack and RAMS Software since I started this post!


So, setting the record straight, there is no spite, you didn't pay $1490.00 to RAMS, and the offer ended because you declined it and only for that reason.

So, setting the record straight, there is PLENTY of spite, towards me as well as other customers as noted by other posts on this forum and other forums. We did buy your software, it was bundled with a machine through one of your, now ex-dealers (no surprise there) in November 2006. You canceled our registration that is documented in your archives because I asked for opinions. Once you discovered we did own legit copies of your software, out comes this mysterious fee of $395.00, stating it was a fee to change our company name in your computer and to re-issue the software key.

Oh, and it's all a moot point now because the keys were recovered off a crashed hard drive this morning, so we are back up and running, even though we have already replaced our RAMS Software packages with something else. I refuse to use software from a company that treats their customers like myself and others have been treated. Of course, that is MY OPINION, not a complaint.

Have a Happy Thanksgiving.

cnc2
11-28-2008, 11:51 AM
Marketer aren't welfares ! but they are professional LIARS !!! Don't you trust'em or you'll be sold second hand !

395$ for something that should be done for courtesy is "legal" theft, how many requests of that kind have you each year to charge customers ??? software keys ain't here to protect the software, look at cracking websites to see what a failure it is ! software keys are ment for recording legitimate software owners (much like a mailbox password) in order to support'em and they should be charged ONLY for SUPPORT or upgrade never for courtesy !

Todays marketers killed marketting !...to software ones: watch out a working registration key is at a few clicks from a futur customer on todays net, so don't encourage people to go that way.

cnc2.

MrWild
11-28-2008, 12:26 PM
WRONG! Jack offered the $395.00 fee AFTER he found our registration in the archives. Here is the original email I received from Jack:
"Thank you for the date of purchase by Gayie Technologies. When we looked back in the archives, we did find the registration. Due to ownership change, there will be a $395.00 fee for key re-generation and re-licensing of the two products to your company."




This says the problem completely. Restructured and renamed looks alot like sold to a new party. The second person to reply from the place went on to mention specific names needed as past and current owner to show that the software is being used by the same person instead of a new party entirely. Software is usually sold to one specific "computer" and when you do so much as change the hard drive, the computer changes and the key won't work. Sorry charley, the software company has no way of knowing if you just installed the software onto a second computer (for two seats) and charges a fee. Some charge the entire fee, while others charge a fraction. In your case, they were charging a fraction.

It's unfortunate no one took the time to explain this to you either when Jack wrote you or when you posted here. They weren't trying to gouge you, they were making sure that if indeed this program was going to a totally new person that bought the machine, or was a new second seat, they got something for it. This is pretty much SOP in the software business. They were actually making the minimum of profit if you are the new user you appear to be. That said, Jack and crew are at fault for not explaining it to you, and both of you should make nice. They should offer to reinstate the license, and you should pay up.

nwrepair1
11-29-2008, 04:22 AM
I think the attitude in Jack and the need to be defensive by Rams VP is an indication that we should avoid dealing with Rams. Why would you in effect shut off your phone line to customers? Too many complaint calls? Too many customers wanting to buy their software? Lets face the fact that once a software is created, endless copies can be sold for minimal cost, near zero.

funcscan
11-29-2008, 05:37 AM
this might be a prejudges view of software companies but, once they have sold you a program they realize it is not like a drill bit, they are only going to sell one to you (maybe more seats) but it is one shot deal. Now all the consumer/manufacturer loyalty is dead. The outcome is some corporate restructure genius devises a plan to make more money off the existing products cutting the investment needed to be made in R&D to make black on the P&L. I just purchased a program for $10,000 (one cd and one seat) I wanted to be able to use it in my base computer for large file process and in the laptop when we are on remote they said only way was to buy a hasp (alladin brand) the cost $500. After a little whining I was told that I could toggle my license on line by unreg and rereg.

dertsap
11-29-2008, 12:27 PM
I think the attitude in Jack and the need to be defensive by Rams VP is an indication that we should avoid dealing with Rams. Why would you in effect shut off your phone line to customers? Too many complaint calls? Too many customers wanting to buy their software? Lets face the fact that once a software is created, endless copies can be sold for minimal cost, near zero.




i know nothing about Rams software or policies nor do i care
to be honest I wouldn't have given or offered anything without being faxed some sort of proof of purchase first . It's nothing personal against MasterDesigns but the first thing that crossed my mind was he bought a used router and the cd's came with , along with the original paperwork which showed date of purchase . the software is in a different state under a different company name and on a different computer , it doesn't sound good by any means .

, I am sure MasterDesigns is honest and that wouldn't be the case , and it is unfortunate , but people pull that type of stuff all the time , and without proof of purchase who is in the right legally or morally

BlackMoon
10-11-2009, 09:32 AM
Hmm, Im wondering now about this. Jack said he 'Locked' the registration.
MasterDesigns said he recovered his key off the crashed HD.
Does this mean he can no longer run future versions of Rams?

Just for saying he did'nt want to spend $395 to get his 'records' updated and a new key made, when the fee isent listed anywhere on rams website or terms of service? And the buyer was not made aware of during the initial sale of the software that it was non transferable to a new company name without fees?

If so, that sounds like one of those muddy grey legal areas that lawyers love to waste peoples money on.

c131fr
05-24-2013, 08:15 PM
Wow, was about to pull the trigger on the Rams package but then found this thread. If Jack is this much of a prick towards an existing customer, why would a potential new customer buy anything from him? Good luck Jack.

TroyO
07-19-2013, 05:08 PM
I don't claim to know the in's and outs, but it seems to me that any software that requires that much effort (400$ worth) on the part of the vendor to just generate a key and update a database is pretty much a fail anyway. If the real issue is the legitimacy of the original license the appropriate response is to refuse a new key being issued until proof of purchase can be supplied, NOT to offer some kind of ransom for a license key. Being a dick about it too just seems like rubbing salt in the wound and really isn't called for in any professional environment.