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JavaDog
10-15-2004, 10:57 AM
Ok, so I am starting to aquire peices and doing planning on my first CNC 3-Axis machine! :banana: Here's to being broke for the next few months. :cheers:

The design will be similar to the Data-Cut. I am planning on a working area of 24in (Y-Axis) x 30in or 32in (X-Axis). The Z-Axis will be using a 7.5in THK Rail.

1) THK Rails for the X, Y, Z Axis.
2) Ball-Screws for the Y, Z Axis.
3) Belt-Drive for the X Axis.

All of the above will be from Ebay. By my estimate, will run about $250-$350.

The parts I am not sure on:

1) Router. I was thinking of a 1/2hp Porter-Cable?
2) Servos. Not sure here.
3) Controller and PSU. I would like to go Gecko, but they are $$$.
4) Table/Frame. Thinking of Alum. Extrusion like 80/20.

I am mainly going to be machining Acrylic, Plexi, Poly-Carb, Delrin/UHMW. I would also like to be able to machine Aluminum stock up to 1in thick (obviously would be multiple passes).

I am trying to stay under $1000 (hopefully $500) total cost.
So, thoughts? Ideas? Things I should change?

Thanks in advance for the help. This is a great community!

Cost so far:

1) Two 26in Slide Assemblies: $130 (Ebay)
2) Porter Cable Router: $136 (Amazon.Com)
3) One IKO Linear-Rail (Z-Axis): $15 (Ebay)
4) Framing:
- - A) 80/20 Aluminum Structure - 47" x 2: $33 (Ebay)
- - B) 80/20 Aluminum Structure - 36" x 3: $36 (Ebay)

Total: $350
Budget Max: $1000
Left to Spend: $650

BigDaddyG
10-15-2004, 12:26 PM
JavaDog,
Sounds good so far! A big yes on the Extrusion frame! A bit more expensive but well worth the money, and the fab is easier than most. Are you set on Servos, because I mentioned on a previous thread, Automation Direct just came out with a Stepper combo that is hard to pass up on! All new stuff, with up to 20' of wire (Driver, Motors, Power Supply all configured together and delivered in a few days to the house, all brand new with warrenty...can't beat it).

Gotta ask, where in W. New York. I am in Fla now, but grew up in Alden. Good luck, ask if you need a hand or have any questions.

Regards,
Glen

JavaDog
10-15-2004, 12:36 PM
JavaDog,
Sounds good so far! A big yes on the Extrusion frame! A bit more expensive but well worth the money, and the fab is easier than most. Are you set on Servos, because I mentioned on a previous thread, Automation Direct just came out with a Stepper combo that is hard to pass up on! All new stuff, with up to 20' of wire (Driver, Motors, Power Supply all configured together and delivered in a few days to the house, all brand new with warrenty...can't beat it).

Gotta ask, where in W. New York. I am in Fla now, but grew up in Alden. Good luck, ask if you need a hand or have any questions.

Regards,
Glen

Yeah, I might have a source of near-free extrusion locally - so that makes it easier to go with!

Is there any drawback in accuracy (or speed) or more complication in going with steppers? If not, I am not married to using servos - and in fact - I can source stepper motors for older high-end line printers for free (what specs are important? Amps? Oz? Turns? Steps? What is ideal for Plastic & Alum?).

I am in Buffalo, near Alden. It's funny, every forum I am on I know like 3 people from WNY. I guess we are just to friendly to stay quiet! :cool:

buscht
10-18-2004, 02:48 PM
JavaDog, you have champagne tastes on a beer budget :cheers:

Servos, Geckos, THKs, Ball screws, etc. I'd guess that your budget figure should be more like $1500 to $2000 unless you are a great scrounger.

It seems to me that stepper motors are much easier to set up, but servos are capable of faster more reliable motion. If you don't overtax your system, then steppers probably are the way to go.

My recommendation is to set your budget.

Let's say $1000.
That $232 per AXIS
rails $70
ball screw $65
Stepper Motor $65
Cables $10
Switches $2
Aluminum plate $20

That leaves $304 for general machine construction
controller Xylotex $150
Fan $5
DC power supply $50
1/2 hp router $100
frame free???

Used PC free??? or $50

Control software
Mach2 $150 or TurboCNC $60
Programming software
Sheetcam free in beta

Total costs not including software $1001

Anyway, you can see that if you write it out, you can keep track of costs better and it will help you on your Ebay bidding. You can also see if your original estimates are inline or way off base.

Good luck.

JavaDog
10-18-2004, 04:34 PM
Well, I am a good scrounger, but $1000 is going to push this machine out until maybe Dec 2005.

I would really rather go with actual Servos.
What should I look for in a servo when I am hunting?

I have plenty of spare PCs and Monitors for the control system.
Is Autodesk Inventor capable of driving a CNC machine directly. I do all of my CAD work in Inventor. I can export in DXF or DWG format...as well as others.

As for the controllers...are there good Servo controllers that I can build myself? Any with free plans?

Thanks for the input Buscht, it does help quite a bit.

buscht
10-18-2004, 05:13 PM
Check out this website,
http://www.homecnc.info/cnc-main.html

I don't know much about servos, other than the motors,encoders, controller, add up to about $1000 minimum without the mechanical part of the machine. That's why I stayed away from them.

Check the classifieds on this forum. Balsaman is selling his 2nd servo router for about $2500. Read his thread on building the machine. Its one of the best ones here.

To my knowledge Autodesk inventor will not drive a CNC machine directly. It just CAD. Once you export in DXF format (for example) you usually need another program to take this drawing and produce G code to run your machine. www.sheetcam.com would work. Then you need a program like MACH2 or TurboCNC to read the G code and control your machine tool.

I just pulled the $1000 out of the air. You can build a unit for $500 for sure.

Use stepper motors.
Don't expect high end speed or cutting power. If done properly, you should get good accuracy however.
You had a pretty reasonable machine, (costwise) until you mentioned cutting 1" aluminum. That requires heavier cutting forces than some of the other materials you want to cut.

Good luck.

Graham S
10-18-2004, 05:38 PM
Servos don't have to be so expensive, you can get the motors for $17.50 each (search for "my cheap servos" thread), encoders for ~$25 (www.usdigital.com) and drivers for $114 per axis (www.geckodrive.com).

JavaDog
10-18-2004, 05:41 PM
See, though, half of my projects are going to involve Alum....

I guess I could start with just Acrylic and use that to do a $2500 Servo based router later...it's not like the desire will go anywhere! :)

What do you think of the FET3/Cruiser system from StepperWorld (http://209.41.165.153/stepper/FETcruiser.htm)?


Servos don't have to be so expensive, you can get the motors for $17.50 each (search for "my cheap servos" thread), encoders for ~$25 (www.usdigital.com) and drivers for $114 per axis (www.geckodrive.com).

What type of power and accuracy can I expect from such low-cost servos though?

buscht
10-18-2004, 05:52 PM
I don't know much about it other than after reading up on this forum, most people recommended the Xylotex instead.

There is a thread by Cold Fusion on this forum, he built a DIY router and cuts aluminum quite a bit. I think that he had a $500 budget and ended up spending $1400. Check it out.

By Graham S's figures, you would spend $469.50 on a servo system. You still need a DC power supply, cabling, control box, and most people use a breakout board. That's roughly $250 more.

I'm not sure what reads the encoders, is it the Gecko's or something else?

JavaDog, Balsaman is selling it for $2500. My guess is that it cost about $1000 to $1500 to build.

ger21
10-18-2004, 08:28 PM
What do you think of the FET3/Cruiser system from StepperWorld (http://209.41.165.153/stepper/FETcruiser.htm)?



What type of power and accuracy can I expect from such low-cost servos though?



Everyone I've seen comment on their Stepperworld board wonders why it's so slow. A Xylotex should give you at least twice the speed, more efficiently for the same amount of money.

The low cost servos will give you the same accuracy as the more expensive ones. The encoders actually provide the accuracy with servos. I believe they will provide enough power for your application. You can always gear them down a little for more power (trading off speed).

ger21
10-18-2004, 08:56 PM
The design will be similar to the Data-Cut. I am planning on a working area of 24in (Y-Axis) x 30in or 32in (X-Axis). The Z-Axis will be using a 7.5in THK Rail.

1) THK Rails for the X, Y, Z Axis.
2) Ball-Screws for the Y, Z Axis.
3) Belt-Drive for the X Axis.

All of the above will be from Ebay. By my estimate, will run about $250-$350.


I'm not sure how you can build a usable z- axis with 7.5 inch rails. For what you want to do, I'd recommend that your Z-axis have at least 3" of travel. If you can get 3" of travel with 7.5" rails, I doubt it will be very sturdy.

Also remember that you'll typically need about 8 or more inches longer rails than your intended working area, so you'd probably need at least 32" Y rails and 40"+ x rails. These longer rails start to get expensive (even on Ebay). One placve you can save some money is to use the smaller 15mm rails, instead of the more expensive 25 or 30mm. The 15's will still be plenty strong enough for your application.


1) Router. I was thinking of a 1/2hp Porter-Cable?

Do you mean the 1-1/2HP 690? I'd recommend the 892 (2 1/4HP), but it's almost $200. You can get the 690 for maybe under $150. Get one with variable speed, though. Plastic melts fast at high rpm. :)

I'd say it's pretty doubtful you'll be able to stay under $1500, unless you have a free source for the aluminum extrusions. Even with a Xylotex, you'll probably have to pay around $50 each for decent steppers, and that's $300 already. You might want to look at good acme instead of ballscrews. Multiple start screws can give performance close to inexpensive ballscrews, for about 1/2 the price. And if you want to cut 1" aluminum, you might want to think about a smaller machine. Easier to make more ridgid. Good luck.

JavaDog
10-19-2004, 07:44 AM
I'm not sure how you can build a usable z- axis with 7.5 inch rails. For what you want to do, I'd recommend that your Z-axis have at least 3" of travel. If you can get 3" of travel with 7.5" rails, I doubt it will be very sturdy.

So, 12" for the Z-Axis would be about right then? I can do that.


Also remember that you'll typically need about 8 or more inches longer rails than your intended working area, so you'd probably need at least 32" Y rails and 40"+ x rails. These longer rails start to get expensive (even on Ebay). One placve you can save some money is to use the smaller 15mm rails, instead of the more expensive 25 or 30mm. The 15's will still be plenty strong enough for your application.

I've noticed. :p I think I may have to reevaluate my needs.


Do you mean the 1-1/2HP 690? I'd recommend the 892 (2 1/4HP), but it's almost $200. You can get the 690 for maybe under $150. Get one with variable speed, though. Plastic melts fast at high rpm. :)

Yes, the 690 was the one I meant. Typo on my side. Without a doubt I need to go variable speed.

Again, this is the reason I am looking for good steppers or servos - with plastic and a high-speed router, I can push the table pretty fast and keep the cuts nice and clean.


I'd say it's pretty doubtful you'll be able to stay under $1500, unless you have a free source for the aluminum extrusions. Even with a Xylotex, you'll probably have to pay around $50 each for decent steppers, and that's $300 already. You might want to look at good acme instead of ballscrews. Multiple start screws can give performance close to inexpensive ballscrews, for about 1/2 the price. And if you want to cut 1" aluminum, you might want to think about a smaller machine. Easier to make more ridgid. Good luck.

So, let's say I went with a 20" x 20" of usable cutting space. That would mean I would need 28" rails, correct? (Are these (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3845844837&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT) a good price for such a rail?)

Now, don't forget, I was planning to use belt drive (since I have a free source for gears). If belt drive is (i) accurate enough and (ii) strong enough for my stated uses, I will use it on all three axis. That should help cut the costs down since I don't have to buy ballscrews then.

Thanks again guys for all the great info. Really is a learning and fine-tuning process. :wave:

ger21
10-19-2004, 08:14 AM
Those are probably $350 new for the set. The pillow blocks are $60 each.

JavaDog
10-19-2004, 08:21 AM
Those are probably $350 new for the set. The pillow blocks are $60 each.

So, if I can manage to get it for under $100 - it is a deal not to be passed up.

With my revised 20" x 20" working area, they would be perfect, right?

ger21
10-19-2004, 08:56 AM
Personally, I'd like to have something a little longer if I wanted to acheive 20" of travel. With 20" of travel, it's unlikely you'll be able to cut something 20". Ideally you'd like to have a few extra inches all around. I'd say they are a pretty good deal. THK's are nicer and probably a little easier to use (stronger too), but they'll work just fine for you.

The best thing to do, is try to figure out what you'll need, get all the parts, and then start designing around what you have. If something you have won't work, you can always put it back on Ebay and get something that works for your application.

I'm usually a little hesitant when people ask what they should buy, because something that I might want might not be what they would eventually want. I like to think that if you have to ask somebody else what to buy, you should do more research until you yourself know what you want and/or need. If you rush into something like this, there's a lot better chance of buying things twice (or more). I here about it all the time here. Just my opinion, though. Good luck.

High Seas
10-19-2004, 09:45 AM
Seems like that if you want to cut 20 inches - and want to figure out how long the rails ought to be you could:
Start with the 20 inches - then: Add, 1/2 the diameter of the router (assume the router is offset and that need to be included next), the offset of the router (bit) from the "back" of the y axis gantry, and then the offset from the back side to the zero point of your 20 inch reference. That ought to be close... unless I missed something (early - gotta get coffee.)
The advantage to putting the router between the Y axis rails, can be seen on my System2 in the member's gallery. The router being between the rails, just add the overall width of the Y Axis gantry to the desired cutting langth - and get that size rail!
:cheers: Jim

Chagrin
10-19-2004, 10:38 AM
You lose the total width of the (whatever) sliding on those rails, measured from the outside of the bearings on that rail. So if I have a 5" wide slide and want to cut 10", I need 15" long rails.

Go get some coffee (chair) :p

High Seas
10-19-2004, 08:23 PM
Chagrin - Oh - I'm better now - and yer right -- COFFEE!
You can shave an inch or 2 if you "short- couple" the bearings (close spacing) and then let the 2 rails for the Y axis be as wide as they need to be to contain the router etc.
Right, for example; on my set up the bearings take up 4 linear (x axis) inches - but the overall width of the Y gantry is 9 inches. So, THAT 5 extra inches of overhang (9-4 = 5) I don't need to purchase. To get the example, 20inches - I'd need 24 not 29! Seems funny a , "mine is smaller," discussion doesn't it! Buy what you can at a ood price - and make it work for itself the make it bigger!
:cheers: Jim

JavaDog
10-20-2004, 02:17 PM
Well, in the interest of actually building a machine, I have revised my specs further.

10" x 10" working area. Route Plastic, Alum, Copper. Belt Drive.

So, what specs do I need to look for when scavanging Servos or Steppers?

buscht
10-20-2004, 02:21 PM
Match the motors with the controller. Steppers - unipolar versus bipolar -
proper amps, voltages, etc.
Steps per revolution is important. 200 per revolution is good. less is OK, but not as desirable because your resolution gets coarser.
For what you are doing, I'd look for something around 250-350 oz in, 23 NEMA mount.

JavaDog
10-20-2004, 03:01 PM
Match the motors with the controller.

Even though they are $$$, I think I am going to use Geckos... :cool:

buscht
10-20-2004, 03:24 PM
You probably should go with those servo motors that Graham S suggested.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082&highlight=CHEAP+SERVOS

It seems like everyone has had good luck with them. Jeff Davis was selling them with encoders attached, but I don't know if he has anymore.

Another cost to the servos that no one mentions. You need a timing belt speed reducer for each drive, while stepper motors can be coupled directly to the ball screw.

That's because steppers run better at slow speed, while servos are better at higher speeds. (motor RPM)

JavaDog
10-20-2004, 04:27 PM
You probably should go with those servo motors that Graham S suggested.
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082&highlight=CHEAP+SERVOS

It seems like everyone has had good luck with them. Jeff Davis was selling them with encoders attached, but I don't know if he has anymore.

Another cost to the servos that no one mentions. You need a timing belt speed reducer for each drive, while stepper motors can be coupled directly to the ball screw.

That's because steppers run better at slow speed, while servos are better at higher speeds. (motor RPM)

Holy crap those servos are cheap! From what I read in that thread they would be PERFECT for what I want to do. Looks like Jeff isn't selling them anymore, but the encoder he made reference to only brings the total servo+encoder cost to under $50 (like he said).

Well, like I said, I want to try belt drive for all axis - not sure what impact that will have with speed reduction though....

buscht
10-20-2004, 04:46 PM
JavaDog, read that thread some more, in it they talk about using a belt drive and a 9:1 reducer. It has to do with the pitch of the timing belt. On a acme thread or ball screw, you can get 10 turns per inch. If your servo is turning 2500 rpm thats 250" per minute. You might want a 2:1 timing belt reducer to get that speed around 125" per minute.

A timing belt might have a pitch of 3/8" (just an example) with a direct drive and 2500 rpm, your speed is 937" per minute. You still need a reducer to get the speed in the correct range, 6:1, 8:1, etc.

The issue is not top end speed, but getting the servo to spin at the proper RPM range at whatever speed you are cutting at. Let's say 20 to 100" per minute depending upon whether you are cutting aluminum or plastic. That way you have full torque when cutting aluminum for example.

I'm not at all an expert on this, more or less just rehashing things that I have read.

JavaDog
10-20-2004, 05:30 PM
The issue is not top end speed, but getting the servo to spin at the proper RPM range at whatever speed you are cutting at. Let's say 20 to 100" per minute depending upon whether you are cutting aluminum or plastic. That way you have full torque when cutting aluminum for example.

Ok, now I am really confused. (chair)

I understand the gear reduction...but doesn't the software, controller, and servo all interact to vary the servos speed??

buscht
10-20-2004, 06:05 PM
:drowning: Sorry, I'll bow out of this discussion as my wisdom is only exceeded by my ignorance.

You are right about the software controlling the speeds, etc.

I just know that there is something called a torque curve. You get the highest torque at a specific speed. With steppers, the slower the better and after about 300 rpm, the torque drops off dramatically.

With servos, the torque curve is alot more constant from zero to top speed, but it is still best if you design your mechanical system so you are cutting at the top torque possible.

I'm probably mucking up the waters as my servo knowledge is minimal.
Trent

JavaDog
10-20-2004, 06:37 PM
Sorry, I'll bow out of this discussion as my wisdom is only exceeded by my ignorance.

No need to! You are one of the few providing me insight on this...so please continue to contribute! :cheers:


I just know that there is something called a torque curve. You get the highest torque at a specific speed. With steppers, the slower the better and after about 300 rpm, the torque drops off dramatically.

With servos, the torque curve is alot more constant from zero to top speed, but it is still best if you design your mechanical system so you are cutting at the top torque possible.

Ok, that does make sense. Do you know if there is a formula to figure out optimal cutting speed for optimal torque?? Also, how do different materials vary the speed requirement - or is that something the software speed control handles (once you system is optimized for speed/torque)??

ger21
10-20-2004, 09:15 PM
With steppers, the slower the better and after about 300 rpm, the torque drops off dramatically.


Not Necessarily. It depends on a lot of things, but with Geckos and a high enough voltage (depending on the motors), you can get a stepper torque curve that drops off much more gradually, useful maybe up to around 1000 rpm or so.


I'd recommend going with steppers. They're cheaper, and easier to set up and get running. And if you wanted to switch later, there's a pretty strong market for used Geckos.

Mariss from Geckodrive has stated in the past, that servos are preferred when you get to a certain power requirement. Steppers are better suited at the lower end. There is a also a middle ground where both will perform equally well. I don't recall the specifics, but I'm pretty sure that middle ground is still a bit above what you need. Just be sure if you go with steppers, that you're realistic about it. Don't assume 100 oz steppers should do whatever you want. Go for something in the 300 oz-in range, and you should be OK.

iregan
10-20-2004, 09:51 PM
Hmmmmm,
If you have access to high end printer steppers, what about the shafts out of them? You should be able to get 10-12" out of wide carriage printer shafting-the high end ones use a fairly thick shaft and if you have access to quantities you could use more than the usual two, say 4 per axis. This would cut costs down and then using the steppers you should be able to keep costs down under 500 easy with software etc.
I don't think you really need to worry about high rapids on a machine with that small a footprint.
Just my 2 cents(Canadian)
I'm actually thinking about building a machine about that size and thats how I'm going to go about it I think. My current machine is stored at the moment for lack of room until I get my shop built.
Regan
Regan

JavaDog
10-20-2004, 10:52 PM
Yeah, I actually have two dot-matrix printers. So, now I have 6 1/8" Rails that are 13" long. Should work for the Z-Axis. I also have a ton of gears, and belt-drive gears, and 26in (total length) belts. Pretty good score from two free printers. I haven't checked the specs on the scrounged steppers yet...

buscht
10-21-2004, 09:31 AM
Ok, that does make sense. Do you know if there is a formula to figure out optimal cutting speed for optimal torque?? Also, how do different materials vary the speed requirement - or is that something the software speed control handles (once you system is optimized for speed/torque)??

Different material have different cutting speed requirements depending upon many factors. Its more of a machinist skill rather than a CNC thing.
For example, cutting Walnut you might cut at 45" per min with a 1/4" 2 flute spiral cutter with 15000 spindle RPM. You would use .5" cut depth and a .125" stepover.

Doing the same thing in aluminum might require a 20" per minute cut with only a .25" cut depth.

Copper might be 5" per minute with the other parameters being equal.

So does the software control all of this? Yes and no, Some of the professional (high priced) CAM systems keep all this stuff in a file and you simply have to say what material you are cutting and the cutting conditions are set up for you.

For most of us, you just have to read up a little on your materials, ask some questions, see how its down manually, write all this down on a piece of paper. When you program your parts, use this information to set up the cutting conditions.

I like to think of the CNC issues in 4 areas.

1. Electrical - matching the motors, drivers, power supplies, inputs, outputs, etc.
2. Software - CADCAM - Machine controller
3. Mechanical - router - linear rails- ballscrew/timing belts - table - vacuum holddown
4. Operator - cutting conditions, zeroing machine, putting the right cutter in, calling up the program, cleaning the machine, etc.

JavaDog
10-21-2004, 11:54 AM
Cool, that all makes sense. I am going to go to Borders and look through their Machining section...any books y'all could recommend?

I may end up with a 12" x 20" bed afterall, but that depends on if I win this auction or not! :p

arvidb
10-21-2004, 05:09 PM
*snip* Do you know if there is a formula to figure out optimal cutting speed for optimal torque?? *snip*

The trick is to maximize power from the motor. Power is proportional to RPM times torque, and since servos have more or less constant torque up to their rated speed you want to run them at their rated (nominal - not necessarily maximum) speed.

So use gearing that will allow the servos to run at nominal speed when the table moves at the fastest cutting speed you will ever use.

I have written a text about this in the FAQ section ("What motor, screw and gearing should I choose?"):
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5866

Arvid

arvidb
10-21-2004, 05:25 PM
*snip* A timing belt might have a pitch of 3/8" (just an example) with a direct drive and 2500 rpm, your speed is 937" per minute. *snip*

Do not confuse the pitch of a timing belt (i.e. the distance between the belt teeth) with the pitch of a lead screw (number of turns per inch).

As long as the size of the pulleys stays the same you can change the pitch of the belt all you want, or even use a tooth-less belt, and the speed will stay the same (except maybe for slip with a tooth-less belt).

Instead you have to look a pulley RPM and diameter. A pulley with radius r has got a circumference of 2*r*pi. The pulley circumference "travels" this distance once per turn. Linear speed is then pulley RPM times 2*r*pi.

So to get 5 m/min travel (about 200 IPM) with an r = 12.5 mm (about 1/2") pulley, the pulley RPM would have to be 5/(2*0.0125*pi) = ca 64 RPM. To make full use of a 3000 RPM servo you would then have to gear down about 45 times (3000/64)!

So timing belts are better for fast motion with less force demands. Not too good for aluminum, although it's surely possible with oversized servos.

Arvid

buscht
10-21-2004, 05:32 PM
Hey Arvid, about time someone who knows what he's talking about chimes in.

Great posts! Thanks for the information. You explain the concepts very well.
Trent

arvidb
10-21-2004, 05:46 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Trent! :cool:

Arvid

JavaDog
10-21-2004, 05:51 PM
Wow, tons of great information there. I am going to digest the link you posted there, thanks again.



So timing belts are better for fast motion with less force demands. Not too good for aluminum, although it's surely possible with oversized servos.

Arvid

So, you're telling me belt-drive isn't going to work for whatI want to do. :p

I guess I am back to the ($$$) ballscrews then. I just want to make sure I do it right the first time. I can go larger, and keep my good servos and drivers, down the road.

High Seas
10-21-2004, 06:22 PM
Thinking sideways - and - just wondering...
hmmmm, What about a rack and gear setup? Is the "answer" the same as with belts? (I'm thinking about the, " force demands" as quoted. Is that a result of gearing and slack in the belt? - Or just the torque/rpm.) If a rack and gear setup has the same properties of a belt - why use a belt? But if the rack is better - and not too dear checking at McMaster-Carr - maybe thats an approach! Like to hear the thoughts. :cheers: Jim

Arvid - still hoping some clever chap will do those pic for that great text!

arvidb
10-21-2004, 07:24 PM
Theoretically, a timing belt used for linear motion will work just like a rack and a pinion. The rack is the belt and the pinion is the pulley. So the same math and physics applies, I'm afraid.

It's all about getting the power from the motor to the part or tool. No matter how you do it, if you want say 100 mm/s feed and 500 N cutting force, you will need 50 W of power at the table (P = F*v = 500*0.1 - and I just realised that my CNCMechanics document says P = F*s, which is wrong :mad: ).

You can get those 50 W there with, say, a 100 W motor running at full power output (nominal RPM and max load) with a 50% efficient ACME screw with a lead giving you exactly 100 mm/s feed at this motor RPM,

or with the same motor running at half its maximum power output (nominal speed/2 and max load) driving a geared down timing pulley along a belt at a speed that gives you 100 mm/s - this has the advantage over the previous alternative in that you could actually go twice as fast if you only wanted to,

or with a cheaper 50 W motor having the same nominal speed as the 100 W above but with half the torque, and a ball screw with the same lead as the ACME above,

or... well the choices are endless. If you had a motor with twice the nominal speed but the same power output (and therefore half the torque) as the ones above, you could just add gearing 2:1 to the above choices and still get the same result. I have assumed here that timing belts and ballscrews are 100% efficient, which should not be too far from the truth.

Arvid

JavaDog
10-21-2004, 07:30 PM
So, am I actually going to run into problems running servos and geckos - driving a belt-drive CNC machine - and doing plastic (80% of the work) and aluminum and copper (other 20%) work??

I am happy to go either way, but since I have a source for belts and gears, the belt drive will be cheaper for me. Cheaper only matters, though, if it can do what I need it to. :p

For the alum, I jsut need to be able to cut oout custom brackets out of 1in stock (with multiple passes). Copper, I am making waterblocks for CPU cooling. I know the 2 1/2HP PC Router I am going to use can handle that stock.

arvidb
10-21-2004, 07:52 PM
JavaDog,

I'm not saying it won't work, or that you will run into problems (more than anybody else trying to build his/her own CNC machine :)), just showing the possibilities and that some things might work better than others. If you have access to cheap belts and gears, you might want to try that? Do you really need the full power of your servos? You might do very well with a dual 3:1 reduction (9:1 in total), and since timing stuff is cheap for you that reduction would also be cheap.

It's all about weighing pro's and con's together.

[edit: I also want to add that when I'm talking about motor power I'm talking about continuous mechanical output power. Many/most DC motors are marked with peak electrical power which might be 10 times the continuously available mechanical power. Industrial servos are often marked with continuous mechanical power, though.

Electrical power is U*I, mechanical is (rotational movement) ω*M or (linear movement) v*F, where
* U is voltage
* I is current
* ω (omega) is angular velocity [rad/s], 10 RPM = about 1 rad/s
* M is torque [Nm]
* v is velocity [m/s]
* F is force [N]

If you had a 100% efficient motor you would get 1 W of mechanical power for each watt of electrical power you fed it.]

Arvid

ger21
10-21-2004, 09:42 PM
Use steppers, and you won't have to gear down nearly as much. Since you don't think your going to need high speeds, I don't see where the servos give you an advantage (other than more torque from the gear reduction, but that comes with the added compexity of the, gear reduction). There is nothing wrong with steppers, if done properly. At least a couple times a week, I read about guys with stepper powered Bridgeports that run just fine. Get some 300-400 oz steppers, and Gecko 201's, and you'll be all set. Just my personal preference.

JavaDog
11-01-2004, 02:06 PM
Just wanted to update. I am working on getting some THK rails as we speak, should know by tomorrow if I got them or not.

If I do manage to get them, my machine will be 30" x 30" with a 10" Z-Axis. :banana: I'm keeping my fingers crossed...


EDIT: Nevermind, I was hoping I had a steal on my hands, but the bidding shot out of control (and my price range!). See: Qty:5 30in Rails with Blocks (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3850041073&ssPageName=STRK:MEBI:IT).

JRoque
11-01-2004, 07:48 PM
Hi. Check the auction again; it says *not* THK. They put THK in the title so the search engine picks the auction out when you search for THK. AFAIK, THK doesn't make aluminum rails, only steel.

JR

JavaDog
11-02-2004, 07:08 AM
Hi. Check the auction again; it says *not* THK. They put THK in the title so the search engine picks the auction out when you search for THK. AFAIK, THK doesn't make aluminum rails, only steel.

JR

Oh, I knew they weren't THK. I checked out the mfg that makes those, and they look pretty decent. I'm sure IKO and THK are the best, but if I could have picked up all 5 30" rails for under $200, it would have been a steal!

JavaDog
11-09-2004, 10:19 AM
I have a question for y'all.

Would a matched set (2) of THK ballscrews (14mm with 4mm pitch) with the
cylindrical ways, and aluminum stages and platforms for $250, would I be getting ripped off, or would that be a deal? They are in PERFECT used condition. They are 26in long (should be about 20 odd inches of travel, right?).

This would be a HUGE start for my project, but I want to make sure I am getting a good price. Thanks again for the continuing help everyone! :cheers:

buscht
11-09-2004, 11:25 AM
JavaDog, that sounds like a good deal to me.
Trent

JavaDog
11-09-2004, 11:48 AM
JavaDog, that sounds like a good deal to me.
Trent

Ok, that is what I was thinking, from prices I have seen everyone mention.

Can I expect 24in of travel, realistically?

buscht
11-09-2004, 11:58 AM
I doubt it. If you have the part number, check on the THK website. They are pretty good about showing dimensions.

I'd guess 18" to 20" travel, but without the exact specifications its hard to say.

JavaDog
11-09-2004, 01:38 PM
I doubt it. If you have the part number, check on the THK website. They are pretty good about showing dimensions.

I'd guess 18" to 20" travel, but without the exact specifications its hard to say.

I should be able to get the THK part number. I'll let you know.
I was hoping to have at least 20" x 20" working area minimum, hopefully these will do the trick.

JavaDog
11-10-2004, 07:33 AM
I have a picture of the assemblies:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/THK.jpg

Is a 14mm ballscrew going to be good enough? Is a 4mm pitch good?

buscht
11-10-2004, 08:47 AM
A 14mm ballscrew with 4mm pitch is perfect. You'll get great performance from that. I see that one of the assemblies already has a motor mounted to it. Does that come with it?

I like to stay away from unsupported round ways, but they look like about 1" dia in the picture and at 24" long you should be OK.

JavaDog
11-10-2004, 09:36 AM
A 14mm ballscrew with 4mm pitch is perfect. You'll get great performance from that. I see that one of the assemblies already has a motor mounted to it. Does that come with it?

I like to stay away from unsupported round ways, but they look like about 1" dia in the picture and at 24" long you should be OK.

Yeah, it comes with a Sanyo stepper motor with belt drive. Not sure if the motor will work for me or not...but it's included. :)

Yeah, I would be using these for my X and Y axis. Hopefully I can pick them up...they are out of a silicon chip polishing machine, and were taken care of...

EDIT: I won the auction. Got the pair (26in) for $130. :banana:

JavaDog
11-18-2004, 01:31 PM
Ok, so my Birthday was yesterday (yay me), and I received a nice new Router. However, it is a fixed speed.

So, I am going to bring it back and exchange it for a Variable Speed. They got me a Craftsman 1 1/2hp 8.5amp fixed speed.

I was thinking of exchanging it for a 1 1/2hp 9amp Variable Speed Craftsman, since there is only a $20 difference.

Anyone have any experience with the Craftsman routers? Is this going to be powerful enough for my plastic/alum CNC machine?

High Seas
11-18-2004, 04:39 PM
Sorry, can't help on the question - But Happy Birthday! You might check out the "quick release" adapter set up that Craftsman makes as an after market item and get a router that is compatible with that too. It looks like it would make tool/bit changing a snap! - Cheers - Jim

JavaDog
11-18-2004, 04:47 PM
Sorry, can't help on the question - But Happy Birthday! You might check out the "quick release" adapter set up that Craftsman makes

Thanks for the birthday wishes.

I think you are talking about this (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00926693000&tab=des#tablink)? Looks interesting, says it has bit-adapters to make them work in the qquick-changer. Wonder if this would work as a low-cost tool-height thing-a-ma-jiggy... :p

Anyone else with thoughts on the router? This is the model I am looking to exchange the other one for. (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00917511000&subcat=Routers+%26+Laminate+Trimmers)

WoodSnarfer
11-18-2004, 04:47 PM
Every small Craftsman router I've ever owned experienced premature run-out wear of the lead spindle bearing. Mainly routing oak. I have a couple of older Craftsman power tools from their 'industrial' line, but nowdays I don't buy Sears power tools.

Here's my pick for under $150...you'll like the extra 1/4 HP, too:

Woodsnarfer's pick (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00006411B/qid=1100814106/sr=1-3/ref=sr_1_3_etk-tools/102-2992998-6831329?v=glance&s=hi&n=228013)

Amazon has free shipping...but here is another site where I've bought many a tool...slighly better price, but they charge for shipping:

PC at NW Power Tool (http://www.northwestpowertools.com/routers/690lrvs.htm)

-Chris

JavaDog
11-18-2004, 04:50 PM
Well, that would just about kill any chance at accuracy once that happens.

I guess there IS a reason we all go with Porter Cable! I guess I will just take the cash from the return and get that PC... The PC is the one I wanted anyway. :banana:

You guys sure are good at giving me an excuse to spend more money! :p

Chagrin
11-19-2004, 03:50 AM
Is it too late to vote for the Bosch 1617? A woodworking store had a display demonstrating the size of the stators of various 2HP models and the Bosch's was clearly beefier. Well, it's also more expensive.

http://www.toolseeker.com/PowerTools/Routers/1617EVS.asp?var1=1617EVS

Don't forget that you can still buy a "router speed control" for any fixed-speed router ("universal" motor and all that). These run as low as $20 and would probably offer more convenient adjustments to router speed.

// friends don't let friends buy Craftsman routers

JavaDog
11-19-2004, 07:40 AM
Is it too late to vote for the Bosch 1617? A woodworking store had a display demonstrating the size of the stators of various 2HP models and the Bosch's was clearly beefier. Well, it's also more expensive.

It's not that much more, it's a 2 1/4hp for about the same cost as the PC...
Hmm...I dunno. The PCs are regarded as some of the best though.....


Don't forget that you can still buy a "router speed control" for any fixed-speed router ("universal" motor and all that). These run as low as $20 and would probably offer more convenient adjustments to router speed.


Are there any drawbacks to running an external 'speed control' as opposed to getting a router with it built-in?

High Seas
11-19-2004, 07:54 AM
JavaDog - Yep - that's the tool I was mentioning - the QuickRout by Craftsman. Take a quick look and note how it mounts (in person) before you go too far down the track... It says its good for all Craftsman routers made, but not my 20+ year old one! :frown: You'll see it doesn't fit into the existing collet, but replaces it, and mounts on the shaft.


Are there any drawbacks to running an external 'speed control' as opposed to getting a router with it built-in?

I find it easier to have the speed contol closser at hand than mounted on the router. But you'll want to check the amp capacity and make sure it has the grunt to do the start and run. BTW, you can find these pretty cheap at Harbor Freight.
:cheers: Jim

JavaDog
11-19-2004, 07:41 PM
I find it easier to have the speed contol closser at hand than mounted on the router. But you'll want to check the amp capacity and make sure it has the grunt to do the start and run. BTW, you can find these pretty cheap at Harbor Freight.
:cheers: Jim

Yeah, I think it would be nice to have the control on a lead too.

My slide assemblies came in today!! They are GORGEOUS!! They look like they are brand new, and move so silky. Just amazing...

See for yourself:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Rails_1.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Rails_2.jpg

JavaDog
11-19-2004, 07:42 PM
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Rails_3.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Rails_4.jpg
Mmmm...so nice.

Both rails were $130 (for the pair, not each) off of Ebay. :banana:

JavaDog
11-21-2004, 08:34 PM
Ok, so I have been toying around with ideas for a Gantry. Tell me what you guys think of this idea...

Pictures should explain better than 3000 words:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Gantry_1.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Gantry_4.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Gantry_5.jpg

The router would be mounted 'sideways' (to the std. way of mounting). The quad-rails/slides would add some strength/rigidity...I think. Plus, this would keep the router dead-center of the Y-Axis.

I am not an engineer, though, so I am looking for your thoughts and ideas. Feel free to critique! :)

JavaDog
11-22-2004, 07:54 AM
Of course, I can add bracing to the sides to tie everything together even more, if that would make a difference or not...

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Gantry_6.jpg

Drawing sheet...

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/CAD_Sheet.jpg

Remember, these were just quick renders to get the idea out of my head and into a drawing, so scale is not spot on...

High Seas
11-22-2004, 03:27 PM
JavaDog - I used a similar approach and have a thought to add:
If you mount the servo/stepper on the side opposite or behind the router/spindle, you'll get a more "ballanced" loading on the gantry. I did that but placed the motor at the top of the z axis - next time I'd put ait at the bottom like the router.
BTW very nice pics and what a great score on eBay! Cheers - Jim
Note - you'll be trading off y axis length with my suggested approach (the added width of the servo/stepper mount.)

JavaDog
11-22-2004, 03:39 PM
Hmm...servos on the bottom backside of the router? Interesting idea, I'll have to add that in the drawing and see how I feel about it.

I may have to go with the more tried and true method (common two rail) mounting for my first machine. This quad-rail was just an idea I had...

capitalv
12-28-2004, 10:50 PM
I too have the cnc router bug. I recently have finished it but have little time on the machine. I wish you all the best on your project.

JavaDog
12-30-2004, 08:43 PM
I too have the cnc router bug. I recently have finished it but have little time on the machine. I wish you all the best on your project.

Thanks! Any pictures of yours? Build log?

Now that Christmas is over (whew, Cash only this year, didn't use the plastic for anything!) I will be putting more time into this project.

I am in the proccess of ordering up the 80/20 for the frame. The servos and encoders and Geckos will come with my Yearly Bonus - which is a month away.

I want to be dialing-in this machine within 3-4 months, max.
:cheers:

ViperTX
12-31-2004, 12:29 AM
Well, I'm partial to driving the center of everything....you run into less torsional problems. What are the diameter of the rails? I did the calculations a few weeks back for someone on the amount of deflection (sag) with end supported shafting and I have it somewhere...perhaps you can search for it....you will be surprised at the diameter of shafting that you need.

capitalv
01-04-2005, 11:18 PM
I'm starting to play with my router. One thing I have to fix is, the rod for the linear bearings is just chrome rod not thomson rod. I'm getting flex when I plunge into a part. As for some pics , here are a few.

dberndt
01-04-2005, 11:24 PM
Looks nice. I like the design, execution looks good.

What are you using for inserts on the linear bearings? bushings of delrin or something with ballbearings in it?

Do you find that the 2 rods per side on the X? work well, any binding, etc?

capitalv
01-04-2005, 11:41 PM
the double rod on the x axis did work quite well.I wish I would have done something similar on the y axis. I think Thomson rod will fix my flexing problem. I am using ball type linear bearings that I purchased on E-Bay. If your looking for ballscrews, I found the 16mm ballscrews and nuts are reasonably priced at McMaster-Carr. I also used angular contact bearings back to back and they also work well. My only problem so far is the flexing problem on the y axis.

JavaDog
02-17-2005, 05:42 PM
Ok, so with the season came Tax Returns! I had earmarked some of this money in advance for more parts.

I am kicking around the idea of a moveable table/fixed gantry CNC machine.
Y-Axis and Z-Axis on the Gantry, and the X-Axis would be the moveable table.
Aluminum plate and 80/20 for the frame. MDF table-top.

I drew up some basic plans in MS-Paint, any insight on the idea would be great.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC_Idea.jpg

Hobbiest
02-17-2005, 08:10 PM
You are going to want the gantry mounted further back, so that where the tool actually is will be right in the center of the tables travel. Sounds good otherwise though.

JavaDog
02-18-2005, 01:40 PM
You are going to want the gantry mounted further back, so that where the tool actually is will be right in the center of the tables travel. Sounds good otherwise though.

Not sure I follow. I thought that was how I had set it up in the drawing?

I'm still not totally sold on the moving table design though. Seems like it is equally complicated either way! :D I really like the machine Furry has in the gallery though - moving gantry - but it looks very clean and straighforward...

buscht
02-18-2005, 02:11 PM
I have a moving table machine (both X and Y). It definitely takes up more room and chips and dust get all over the ball screws and linear slides.

I am working on a fixed bed machine to eliminate these nuisances.

Ferenczyg
02-18-2005, 03:31 PM
Not sure I follow. I thought that was how I had set it up in the drawing?

I'm still not totally sold on the moving table design though. Seems like it is equally complicated either way! :D I really like the machine Furry has in the gallery though - moving gantry - but it looks very clean and straighforward...

I think hobbiest speaks about having the gantry mounted back in order to having *the spindle* centered to the table travel.

Moving table is easier to build but demands more real state. Moving gantry is more compact but is not so rigid and not so easy to build.

/F

JavaDog
02-18-2005, 03:45 PM
I think hobbiest speaks about having the gantry mounted back in order to having *the spindle* centered to the table travel.

Moving table is easier to build but demands more real state. Moving gantry is more compact but is not so rigid and not so easy to build.

/F

Well, just kicking the idea around it almost seems like it would be more costly to build a moving table (longer rails, dual-bed, etc). But maybe I am just thinking to hard into it.

I guess if Buscht is (esentially) saying that he would have rather built a fixed bed the first time, I might as well stick with the tried and true moving gantry design.

I just found a local supplier who can hook me up with scrap 6061 and is willing to work with the 'small guy' (only a $20 min order). They aren't open on the weekend, but I am planning to head on down and start buying some Alum plate and maybe get this show on the road!!

JavaDog
02-21-2005, 10:44 PM
Guys, I have a bit of a problem (I think).

Those assemblies I bought off of ebay...well, I took off the plate that ties the screw to the bearing on the round-ways. I was planning on getting everything measured and start drawing out plans.

When I move the bearings on the round way, it feels like the bearings are "chunky". The movement isn't super smooth. Now, maybe I am expecting too much - but how smooth are bearing blocks on round-ways supposed to be??

I'm not sure if there is any way I can show you guys how they move, I am going to try and shoot a small video though - maybe it'll help you guys see what I mean.

ger21
02-22-2005, 08:15 AM
I think I know what you mean. Mine are brand new, in the box, and feel kinda like they move in small steps. Put a load on them, though, and they move pretty smoothly. In your hands, they feel a lot different than thk type

JavaDog
02-22-2005, 08:31 AM
I think I know what you mean. Mine are brand new, in the box, and feel kinda like they move in small steps. Put a load on them, though, and they move pretty smoothly. In your hands, they feel a lot different than thk type

Ah, Ok...that is what I was hoping. Yeah, when they are connected to the ballscrew and each other they seem to move very smooth. I hooked my drill up to the screw and it just flew back and forth down the rails with no issue.

Maybe the design them to need a load to be smooth? Oh, they are THK bearings, btw.

ger21
02-22-2005, 09:02 AM
I meant the other type of thk. :)

JavaDog
02-22-2005, 09:14 AM
Heh, so I decided to play around and make a video of them being driven with my cordless drill. I'm such a dork, but I couldn't resist sending my camera along for a ride too. (chair)

Check it out. (http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/THK_Test.wmv)

Nothing too amazing, but it sure is fun to watch them go back and forth! I can see why spinning the motors before you finish the machine can be such trouble! :)

JavaDog
02-23-2005, 11:08 AM
Ok, I am working on measuring out the base for my machine so I can order my 80/20 (I'm using 1515). Thursday I want to go down to the metal shop and pick up some Alum. plate for making the gantry...but I have a problem.

How in the world do you work out how tall your gantry sides need to be? Also, what is a good width for the sides of the gantry (not plate thickness)?

ViperTX
02-23-2005, 05:15 PM
If you have a large span then I would go with 3015 heavy or the next larger size. Width for sides of the gantry use width of 2 bearing trucks separated by 6 inches....they can be wider at the bottom then at the top. Gantry height is dependent on the maximum thickness of the material that you'll cut + length of the longest cutter + an extra inch of vertical adjustment + length of the spindle...your maximum adjustment then is the 1inch + the distance to the table which would be your z-axis travel.

JavaDog
02-24-2005, 09:09 AM
Width for sides of the gantry use width of 2 bearing trucks separated by 6 inches....they can be wider at the bottom then at the top.

Well, with the parts I have now I don't think I can dedicate that much spacing for the mounting of the gantry sides.


Gantry height is dependent on the maximum thickness of the material that you'll cut + length of the longest cutter + an extra inch of vertical adjustment + length of the spindle...your maximum adjustment then is the 1inch + the distance to the table which would be your z-axis travel.

OK, I think I will wait until I get the parts for the Z-Axis in my hot little hands before I start making the gantry...makes sense.

ger21
02-24-2005, 09:33 AM
Gantry height is dependent on the maximum thickness of the material that you'll cut + length of the longest cutter + an extra inch of vertical adjustment + length of the spindle...your maximum adjustment then is the 1inch + the distance to the table which would be your z-axis travel.

You might also want to make sure you can reach the table with the shortest cutter you'll be using.

JavaDog
02-24-2005, 11:30 AM
You might also want to make sure you can reach the table with the shortest cutter you'll be using.

Heh yeah, I would imagine that could be a bit of a problem.

Just won an auction for a rail that I plan on using for my Z-Axis.

Check it out:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/IKO_Rail.jpg
Brandy new, not even opened. Not too shabby for $10. :D

Just out of curiosity, how exactly does one measure actual travel?? I'm not sure if I have been doing it correctly... (nuts)
For example, the rail above for my z-axis, looking at the picture and tape measure, I'm guessing it will have about 4" of travel??

ger21
02-24-2005, 11:35 AM
Travel depends on the design. I would consider actual travel how far the spindle will actually move.

Hobbiest
02-24-2005, 12:38 PM
Space your bearings apart to where they will be when mounted to the Z, placing them all the way at the end of the rail. Measure from face of bearing (closest to) to end of rail. In the photo, the way you have it laid out, it would be about 5" (9.5 to 4.5 on your tape. Turn the tape around and hook opposite end to make it easy)

JavaDog
02-24-2005, 12:53 PM
Space your bearings apart to where they will be when mounted to the Z, placing them all the way at the end of the rail. Measure from face of bearing (closest to) to end of rail. In the photo, the way you have it laid out, it would be about 5" (9.5 to 4.5 on your tape.

Ok, so I was doing it just about right. So, this should work great for my Z-axis then.

Is it ok to keep the bearings butted up like in the picture? I was planning on doing it that way (assuming it is ok).


Turn the tape around and hook opposite end to make it easy)

Heh, this is the picture that was in the auction. I will take better photos when I get it in my hands (few days hopefully!).

Hobbiest
02-24-2005, 01:24 PM
Is it ok to keep the bearings butted up like in the picture? I was planning on doing it that way (assuming it is ok).

shouldn't cause too much of a problem. Make your tool mounting plate very rigid though.

JavaDog
02-24-2005, 01:44 PM
shouldn't cause too much of a problem. Make your tool mounting plate very rigid though.

I was planning on 1/2" 6061...that should be rigid enough, right?

Hobbiest
02-25-2005, 12:38 AM
I would think so. Especially if kept on the shorter side (i.e. not too much longer than your spindle)

JavaDog
02-25-2005, 12:43 PM
Ok, it's time again for a wonderful MS-Paint "Cad" drawing.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Zaxis.jpg

Now this is a very oversimplified drawing of how I am thinking of laying out my Z-Axis. Rail would be centered and the Ballscrew would be to the left or right of the rail. The plate the router is on would have a block on the back for the ballscrew.

In case you are wondering where the servo driving the ballscrew would be:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Zaxis2.jpg
- Edited to reflect Buscht's idea. -

So, does this look like a solid idea?

buscht
02-25-2005, 12:52 PM
Your concept is fine. I would mount the servo at the top though. I like to keep everything as far away from the router as possible. Dust, dirt, and general crud could build up around the motor.

JavaDog
02-25-2005, 01:39 PM
Easy enough...I wan't sure if it was better to have all the weight on the bottom or not. The Z-Axis is usually pretty complicated (from what I have seen) so I came up with this design and tried to follow the K.I.S.S. principle. I figure that the simplier I keep my design the easier this will all go together, I can only hope. :rolleyes:

JavaDog
02-28-2005, 10:50 AM
So, before I order my servos (ones from the Cheap Servos (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082&highlight=CHEAP+SERVOS) thread) I wanted to make sure all my ducks were in a row.

So, for the control I will need Software, Servos + Encoders, Breakout board, powersupply, drivers.

Software: TBD
Driver: Gecko G320 (http://www.geckodrive.com/item.htbml?order_id=&item_id=G320)
Servos and Encoders: Clifton 30v (http://www.automec-direct.netfirms.com/html/motor_details.html) and USDigital E2 with 250cpr wheel (http://www.usdigital.com/products/e2/).

I have no idea what I should do for a powersupply, or what to look for??

Is the PMDX-121 (http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-121/index.html) Breakout Board from this thread (http://cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=67254#post67254) a good option with the set-up I am doing?

ger21
02-28-2005, 11:19 AM
I thought I read somewhere that those servos were sold out. Let me know if they are still available.

JavaDog
02-28-2005, 05:46 PM
Cost so far:

1) Two 26in Slide Assemblies: $130 (Ebay)
2) Porter Cable Router: $136 (Amazon.Com)
3) One IKO Linear-Rail (Z-Axis): $15 (Ebay)
4) Framing:
- - A) 80/20 Aluminum Structure - 47" x 2: $33 (Ebay)
- - B) 80/20 Aluminum Structure - 36" x 3: $36 (Ebay)

Total: $350
Budget Max: $1000
Left to Spend: $650

JavaDog
03-01-2005, 10:11 AM
I thought I read somewhere that those servos were sold out. Let me know if they are still available.
I emailed them after reading your post. Here was the reply:



Sorry...no longer available. All have sold out.
Well, that sucks. Anyone have any leads on some other Servos?

Also, I added a "Build Cost" tally on the first post (also, added 1 post above)

ger21
03-01-2005, 10:19 AM
Jeff at Homecnc.info was selling them with encoders already mounted. Check with him.

JavaDog
03-01-2005, 10:27 AM
Jeff at Homecnc.info was selling them with encoders already mounted. Check with him.

Yeah, he still has some listed:


HomeCNC Technologies is proud to offer NEW Poly-Scientific 430 Peak oz/in servo motors with Encoders. These motors are perfect in size for a Drill Mill conversion to CNC. They are 2-1/4" Dia X 5-1/2" long with a 1/4" shaft. The motors come with a 250 CPR Quadrature Encoder that works great with a G320/G340 Drive from Gecko Drives.

Price for a servo motor is $150.00 USD + $7.00 USD (Within the US) each for shipping.

Ouch. I mean, not a bad price, but a lot more than I was looking to spend. Although they do sound like pretty beefy servos.

ger21
03-01-2005, 10:41 AM
email him and see if he still has the CLifton servos. I'm not sure if he ever had them listed on his site, but he was selling them as well.

santiniuk
03-01-2005, 12:50 PM
Well Javadog, it looks like you have scored some cracking bargains on ebay !
Those item's would go for nearly double that price in the UK.

Looking forward to seeing the construction come together.

Cheers

JavaDog
03-01-2005, 12:56 PM
email him and see if he still has the CLifton servos. I'm not sure if he ever had them listed on his site, but he was selling them as well.

Yup, has 3 with encoders right now. Still looking at $300 for all three (with encoders!)...but, what can I do. They seem to be some pretty nice motors, and everyone that is using them has only good things to say about them.

Plus, I wouldn't even know where to start to find an alternate option for DC motors that would be good or better...


Well Javadog, it looks like you have scored some cracking bargains on ebay !
Those item's would go for nearly double that price in the UK.

Looking forward to seeing the construction come together.


Thanks, so far I am doing pretty good on budget, IMHO.
I can't wait to see this done too!! :banana:

JavaDog
03-03-2005, 08:30 AM
I have my second order of 80/20 coming in tomorrow. Looks like I should be able to (hopefully) get down to work this weekend. Not quite sure how I am going to cut my 80/20 though, as I only have a handheld circular saw. Maybe I'll have to go buy a good compund...

JavaDog
03-17-2005, 11:58 AM
Well, I haven't gotten as much work done as I would have like. The Lady and I are house hunting, and I have been working on winning some Gecko Drives in my spare time. Lost the first two competitions, but I am giving the Mach3 Splash-Screen contest everything I have!! :devious:

So, hopefully more updates soon. :D

WP1
03-17-2005, 12:50 PM
I'm a little frustrated with those contests, graphics is not my thing. I was hoping that there would be some diversity in the skills required for the different contests.

Pete C.

ger21
03-17-2005, 01:02 PM
I'm a little frustrated with those contests, graphics is not my thing. I was hoping that there would be some diversity in the skills required for the different contests.

Pete C.

They're working on that.

JavaDog
03-17-2005, 01:06 PM
I'm a little frustrated with those contests, graphics is not my thing. I was hoping that there would be some diversity in the skills required for the different contests.

Pete C.

Pretty sure Benny said they were planning some non-graphic contests as well. I really dislike the random 'from-a-hat' style ones though...

EDIT: Ger beat me to it... :p

Hobbiest
03-18-2005, 12:16 PM
Like who can climb a power pole the fastest...or make it a cnc junkyard wars type of thing...ok, maybe that one was too much. Good luck with the house hunting.

JavaDog
03-25-2005, 07:57 AM
Hey guys, I am looking at a ballscrew for my Z-Axis.

Is $100 for a used THK BNT 1404 (14mm, 382mm lenght, 280mm travel, 4mm per turn) with end bearings - is that a good deal? Would it be a good match for a Z-Axis?

buscht
03-25-2005, 08:16 AM
It looks like a good deal to me, but only because it has the end bearings (assuming you mean a total bearing block) and its in good shape.

I always compare to the 5/8 McMaster Carr ballscrew
nut $25.00
nut mounting block $20.00
screw 15" @$1.09 per inch = 16.35
cost to machine the ends $40
(4) roller skate bearings = $6
total cost for new $107.35

So, if you get the whole bearing block its a good deal.

JavaDog
03-25-2005, 08:41 AM
Thanks Buscht. That is a good way to price out ballscrews, I'll remember that.

Hey, I'm sure eveyone has already found this, but I just came across a site that has free 3D and 2D CAD files (just about every format too) for a whole TON of parts, including Linear Ways. You can customize everything (number of blocks, lenght etc etc) and it will build the custom part and export in whatever file format you want!

For example, this is the 3D Inventor5 file I got from the site for my LWLF42 Z-Axis slide:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/IKO_Linear_Way.jpg

Check out the site: Here (http://parts.web2cad.co.jp/PowerPartsOnWeb.ppow?)

Doesn't work well in Firefox, had to use IE.

ViperTX
03-25-2005, 10:54 AM
JavaDog...is that from Jimsonchan? I believe Swede bought a less then exciting spindle from him....check around for other buyers.

JavaDog
03-25-2005, 12:35 PM
JavaDog...is that from Jimsonchan? I believe Swede bought a less then exciting spindle from him....check around for other buyers.

As a matter-of-fact, yes. I was kinda leery, he is charging quite a bit for shipping, and there is one guy (with zero feedback) that seems to bid up his auctions. :wee: If other people on the board have had problems, I will stay away...

JavaDog
04-04-2005, 02:07 PM
Well, I am just sitting here idling.

Working on scrounging up more cash so I can get the Ballscrew for the Z-Axis as well as the rest of the Aluminum and 80/20 fasteners I need. Not to mention the Geckos and software.... *sigh*

Anyhow, I'm trying to decide if I am going to buy a shop-table with wheels to mount my router on or if I am better off building one from 80/20. I do need to be able to roll this whole system. I was kicking around the idea of something similar to the Data-Cut (http://www.data-cut.com/router.html) design (only smaller). Any thoughts?

JavaDog
04-07-2005, 11:58 AM
Alright...got a Ballscrew on the way for my Z-Axis! :cheers:

I'm going to try and mock up my Z-Axis in MDF this weekend and also hopefully start on the frame.

I'm thinking of using 1" Alum plate on the ends, with the 80/20 making up the sides/bed - like on the K2CNC machines. Sound good?

Edit: heh, I post way too much in my own thread... (nuts)

buscht
04-07-2005, 12:10 PM
I am using some 1-1/2" square 8020 and its very rigid. I put 2 pieces side by side to make a rectangle 1-1/2 x 3" and its about perfect for a platform to attach the bearing mounts and plate for a stepper motor.

JavaDog
04-07-2005, 01:25 PM
I am using some 1-1/2" square 8020 and its very rigid. I put 2 pieces side by side to make a rectangle 1-1/2 x 3" and its about perfect for a platform to attach the bearing mounts and plate for a stepper motor.

So, you're more for making the whole frame out of 80/20...kinda like Santini's Machine?

Thing is, I am trying to figure out how I will mount the rails (unsupported) to an all-80/20 frame...?

buscht
04-07-2005, 02:23 PM
Javadog, Not really. I reread part of this thread because I get mixed up on who is doing what sometimes. I see that you were going to use 8020 and aluminum plates all along. You should use whatever item is apppropriate. (or whatever you can get cheaper).

JavaDog
04-07-2005, 04:13 PM
Javadog, Not really. I reread part of this thread because I get mixed up on who is doing what sometimes. I see that you were going to use 8020 and aluminum plates all along. You should use whatever item is apppropriate. (or whatever you can get cheaper).

Yeah, I already have the 80/20 I need. Plus, I have a good deal on scrap Alum. from a local metal-guy.

Really, my machine is going to be VERY similar (with a few of my own tweaks) to the K2 KT-2514 (http://www.k2cnc.com/KT-2514_detail.asp) in design. Although, it will be 22"x22"x5" in size.

Time to stop talking and get building! :boxing:

JavaDog
04-11-2005, 08:57 AM
Well, due to some sickness in the family I didn't get a whole lot done this weekend (of anything). But, family comes first.

I did get my new Ballscrew for the Z-axis, as I said a few days back. Here it is in all its glory:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Zaxis_Ballscrew1.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Zaxis_Ballscrew2.jpg

Ain't it sexy! The motion on it is tight, fast, and very smooth. Has approx 5.75in travel. Since my IKO rail for my Z-axis has 5.5in of travel, it is a perfect addition.

JavaDog
04-11-2005, 09:04 PM
I got a tip from a friend that works at Sears. He said to check out the DeWalt DW618 (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=5575) router. I gotta say, I think I may go with this over the Porter Cable.

Check out the specs:


2-1/4 HP (maximum motor HP), 12.0 Amp electronic variable speed motor provides the power to rout smoothly through the toughest hardwoods

Electronic variable speed with full feedback control for constant speed under load from 8,000-24,000 rpm and soft start to reduce start-up torque for enhanced control

Detachable cordset offers cordset serviceability and the ability to use the same motor pack for all bases

Heavy duty, precision machined, die-cast aluminum base and motor housing for durability and low tool weight

Self-releasing, long, eight slotted collets for better bit retention and eliminating frozen bits.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Dewalt_DW618.jpg

All this, and street price is $160-$180. :cheers:

JavaDog
04-14-2005, 11:20 AM
Ok, I will be ordering my Servos today or tomorrow. I am getting the Poly-Sci servos from Jeff at HomeCNC. :cool:

From what Jeff said, they should be good:


I would say you should be fine with the 360 oz/in servos. At 2:1 you will have 720 oz/in at 2150 / 2 = 1075 RPM with 36VDC input at the screw.

JavaDog
04-17-2005, 09:09 PM
I am the proud owner of three new Poly-Sci servos. :cheers:

Specs:


* 360 oz/in peak torque (That's 22.5 in/lbs!)
* 20 AMPS peak current (That's 18 oz/in per amp supplied)
* New 250 CPR USDigital Encoder (installed) That means 1000 pulses per revolution
* 36 VDC Nominal Terminal Voltage
* Fully Tested on a Gecko G320 servo drive

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Servos.jpg

10bulls
04-18-2005, 06:42 AM
<drool!> Very nice! You got some stonking bits there...can't wait to see it all coming together.

So are these cheap (relatively) normal DC motors with encoders added on?
Did you say you were going for a 2:1 belt reduction?

JavaDog
04-18-2005, 08:44 AM
<drool!> Very nice! You got some stonking bits there...can't wait to see it all coming together.

So are these cheap (relatively) normal DC motors with encoders added on?
Did you say you were going for a 2:1 belt reduction?

They are servos from Poly-Sci. Sorta cheap...but the Clifton DC motors (almost the same thing) were only $15 each at one point. Now, you're paying for the convenience of having three matched motors/encoders. Jeff (HomeCNC) sells these with the US-Digital encoders attached. He suggested that a 2:1 is a good range to run these...I haven't bought any belts/gears yet...and I am open to any feedback anyone has.

JavaDog
04-18-2005, 02:41 PM
Ok, I am trying to figure out if I should go for the PMDX-122 (http://www.pmdx.com/PMDX-122/index.html) breakout board or the CNC4PC (http://www.cnc4pc.com/Parallel_Port_Interface_Card.htm) breakout board.

I think the CNC4PC is the winner though, because the Relay board (http://www.cnc4pc.com/Solid_State_Relay_Board.htm) supports up to 13amp for the spindle (and my router is rated at 12 amps) and three 5-amp devices (like my vaccum). Jeff from HomeCNC was supposed to be reviewing these <hint hint> :stickpoke

Now, on the CNC4PC board they show a Power Supply (http://www.cnc4pc.com/Mini_Power_Supply.htm) to power the breakout board. Am I safe in thinking that I wouldn't need to buy this and I could just use the 12v/5v from a spar PC power supply (which I will already be using to power my Gecko drives - if that is OK)??

Also, can I make the Charge Pump (http://www.cnc4pc.com/Safety_Charge_Pump.htm) board work with OneCNC XR? Is it even neccesary?

The biggest question is will I be able to make the Breakout board and the Relay board all work with OneCNC XR so the software will start-stop my router and vaccum, and responde to E-Stop and Limit Switches (maybe I should ask this in the OneCNC forum?)?

I am going to try and decide and order today - so if anyone has any feedback/thoughts...please share. :cheers:

ger21
04-18-2005, 02:52 PM
OneCNC has nothing to do with controlling your machine. It will just provide the g-code. The charge pump works with Mach2/3 only. It's a good idea to use it, as it keeps your motors from moving if Mach2 is not running.

turmite
04-18-2005, 02:55 PM
Hey Java thought I would check you thread and saw this post. What controller are you using? The following statement is what makes me ask.

"Also, can I make the Charge Pump board work with OneCNC XR? Is it even neccesary?"

OneCNC is a cad/cam package and not a controller, at least the last time I checked. The charge pump circuit sounds like maybe you might be talking about Mach2/3 and if so I would recommend you take a look at the Sound Logic breakout board made by Jim Cullins and sold by Bob Campbell. It is more money than the cnc4pc board for sure but it is a really nice setup and easy to install.

BTW if you have not decided on a controller yet you really need to look at Mach2. I know you are trying to keep this on a tight budget but Mach2 has some benefits that many overlook. Free upgrades, multiple machine installs at no extra charge and the ability to run a mill, lathe, router or plasma all with the same software and for the same price! :) IMHO you just can't beat a deal like that.

Mike

JavaDog
04-18-2005, 03:15 PM
Hmm...I guess I was under the false impression that XR actually ran the Gcode and controlled my machine (at least, that was the impression I got from the demo).


OneCNC has nothing to do with controlling your machine. It will just provide the g-code. The charge pump works with Mach2/3 only. It's a good idea to use it, as it keeps your motors from moving if Mach2 is not running.
If I really do need Mach2/3 as well to run the Gcode and controll my machine - so be it. What's another $150 after spending $1000 on XR! :p

The Campbell Designs board is a lot more expensive! Honestly, what more do I really get for the money? The CNC4PC board looks to have all the same features, with the benefit of modularity...perhaps I am missing something?

I wonder if Jeff (HomeCNC) ever got a chance to test out the CNC4PC boards?

HomeCNC
04-18-2005, 04:10 PM
The Campbell Designs board is a lot more expensive! Honestly, what more do I really get for the money? The CNC4PC board looks to have all the same features, with the benefit of modularity...perhaps I am missing something?

I wonder if Jeff (HomeCNC) ever got a chance to test out the CNC4PC boards?

I have the full set of boards from CNC4PC. I have not had the chance to build another controller with them (yet). I've been too busy getting started on my house/shop building. The breakout board from CNC4PC is a standard board with no fancy options on it. I for one, don't really need the charge pump circuit because I never have my CNC controller ON before my PC is up and running with Mach 2 running. This only makes sense anyway. Why would I have the machine controller on with NO controller up and ready to control it!!!

JavaDog
04-18-2005, 04:25 PM
I have the full set of boards from CNC4PC. I have not had the chance to build another controller with them (yet). I've been too busy getting started on my house/shop building. The breakout board from CNC4PC is a standard board with no fancy options on it. I for one, don't really need the charge pump circuit because I never have my CNC controller ON before my PC is up and running with Mach 2 running. This only makes sense anyway. Why would I have the machine controller on with NO controller up and ready to control it!!!

I guess that makes perfect sense! Plus, I would have the Controller Board/Geckos on a switched PSU...so they would only be on when I want them to be.

Any thoughts on using a PC PSU to power the Geckos and the CNC4PC board if I go with this?

I have no idea now, more confused than before. The Cambell Design board looks nicer, and I like the higher rating on the 'should-have-been-included-at-that-price' relay board. Plus, the fact that it has an onboard PSU for it and the geckos is very nice.

Gah...what a pita. I can't wait until I start shopping for a power supply for my servos. (chair)

JavaDog
04-19-2005, 09:08 AM
Any thoughts on using a PC PSU to power the Geckos and the CNC4PC board if I go with this?


I emailed CNC4PC about using a PC PSU, here was his response for those interested (like me!):


The computer power supply is fine for powering the card and the Geckos. The
relay board will work fine with the 12 amp router.

Regards,
Arturo Duncan

JavaDog
04-19-2005, 01:11 PM
Ok, I think I am about to just say 'screw it' and order the lower-cost CNC4PC board. :boxing: To be honest, I can live without a relay board until I get a dedicated shop.

I really can't find any major differences in the function of all these different boards - it seems like my servo/controller/software choices are much more important...I'm wasting too much time on such a small part, IMHO... ;)

BigDaddyG
04-19-2005, 01:19 PM
Javadog,
Hey man, I ordered the whole set of boards from Arturo and have been very happy with both the boards and the price. I have built seveal systems since then and I am still using them and very pleased. I think you will be far better off using the power supply he has rather than a pc one. The other nice thing, you can make room for the different boards and add them to your cabinet when you decide to get them later. At some time you are going to want to be able to control the router from the software (I hate to have to put my beer down to get up and turn on the mill). Good luck, you will not be sorry you decided to go this route.

Regards,
Glen

JavaDog
04-19-2005, 01:29 PM
Javadog,
Hey man, I ordered the whole set of boards from Arturo and have been very happy with both the boards and the price. I have built seveal systems since then and I am still using them and very pleased. I think you will be far better off using the power supply he has rather than a pc one. The other nice thing, you can make room for the different boards and add them to your cabinet when you decide to get them later. At some time you are going to want to be able to control the router from the software (I hate to have to put my beer down to get up and turn on the mill). Good luck, you will not be sorry you decided to go this route.

Regards,
Glen

Awesome, good to hear from someone that is running them! Thanks! :cheers:

Any reason you say that about the PSU? I guess it really wouldn't make a difference to me. It looks like it will have enough 5v lines so I can power my DC fans to keep the enclosure cool as well.

I get Belkin acbles at cost, so I was thinking of ordering this cable (http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=&Product_Id=16718) to connect my PC to the breakout board.

BigDaddyG
04-19-2005, 01:50 PM
Javadog,
As for the power supply, I prefer to use a stand alone and not rely on the PC for power. There are plenty of 5vdc for the Geckos/BoB's and yes fans, plus there are the 12vdc for sensors/prox that you will use for your limits. Heck at 26 bucks you cant go wrong.
Good luck man,
Glen

JavaDog
04-19-2005, 02:34 PM
Javadog,
As for the power supply, I prefer to use a stand alone and not rely on the PC for power. There are plenty of 5vdc for the Geckos/BoB's and yes fans, plus there are the 12vdc for sensors/prox that you will use for your limits. Heck at 26 bucks you cant go wrong.
Good luck man,
Glen

Thanks. Made up my mind...better than hacking up a spare PSU.
I going to order everything now. :)

santiniuk
04-19-2005, 05:07 PM
I have just been reading back some of your posts Javadog and this machine is going to be the business.

I'm envious at some of the components you have sourced and at great prices !

How is the assembly planning out ?

Cheers

JavaDog
04-19-2005, 05:27 PM
I have just been reading back some of your posts Javadog and this machine is going to be the business.

I'm envious at some of the components you have sourced and at great prices !

How is the assembly planning out ?

Cheers

I'm envious, your machine is running! I still have a ways to go. :D

Assembly is on hold until I get my next order in from 80/20 (More Extrusion and T-Nuts). This build is giving me an excuse to buy some tools I needed too.

For example, I jsut bought my first Tap and Die (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00952344000&subcat=Bolt-Out%2C+Taps+%26+Dies) set. I am also buying my first Compound Miter Saw (http://www.dewalt.com/us/products/tool_detail.asp?productID=2921) and Drill Press (http://www.deltawoodworking.com/index.asp?e=136&p=1153) - these are "hidden" costs from my Build Cost (and my Fiance) though. :p

I have to update my Cost Tally...

JavaDog
04-19-2005, 05:41 PM
Cost so far:

1) Two 26in Slide Assemblies: $130 (Ebay)
2) DeWalt DW618 Router: $168 (Check Froogle)
3) One IKO Linear-Rail (Z-Axis): $15 (Ebay)
4) Framing:
- - A) 80/20 Aluminum Structure - 47" 1515 x 2: $33 (Ebay)
- - B) 80/20 Aluminum Structure - 36" 1020 x 3: $36 (Ebay)
- - C) 80/20 Aluminum Structure - 36" 1530 x 4: $102 (Ebay)
- - D) 80/20 - Double T-Nut - #3279 - x 60pcs: $45 (Ebay)
- - - - I went a bit overboard on the T-Nuts.
5) 8in Ballscrew for Z-Axis: FREE!
6) CNC4PC Breakout Board, PSU, Charge Pump: $67 (CNC4PC Website)
7) Poly-Sci DC Servos with US-Digital Encoders x3: $321 (Ebay - HomeCNC)
8) Aluminum Plate - Assorted - For End-Plates and Z-Axis: $150 (Metal Supermarkets)

Total: $1067
Budget Max: $2000
Left to Spend: $933

santiniuk
04-20-2005, 02:02 PM
That's one impressive list of parts.

And even more impressive is the price you picked them up for.

I can only describe your compound mitre saw as *Awesome*, ;)

What stage are you at now ? Should we see some more pics soon ?

cheers

JavaDog
04-20-2005, 03:45 PM
That's one impressive list of parts.

And even more impressive is the price you picked them up for.

I can only describe your compound mitre saw as *Awesome*, ;)

What stage are you at now ? Should we see some more pics soon ?

cheers

Yeah, that mitre saw is sexy init?

I am in the building stage...but I am having some issues decided how large to make my gantry and what thickness I should go with on the Alum.

I am thinking 1" for the end-plates for the base/frame. 1/2" for the gantry sides and bottom. Not sure if the 1/2 will make my gantry too heavy though, and I am a bit worried about the deflection I am going to get on my unsupported rails...

JavaDog
04-21-2005, 10:17 AM
Just got back from the metal supplier. Sadly, they didn't have as much Aluminum plate scrap as they made it sound. 'Course, that didn't stop me from buying some plate to play with. $2 a pound adds up fast though!

So, I didn't get what I need for the end-plates and the gantry - I guess I am going to have to find another source/supplier. The only way I could get the 1/2" 6061 from these guys was if I bought a 4ft x 4ft sheet for $185. Plus, about another $100 in labor to plasma cut it all. They had scrap in the size I needed in Stainless for the same $2 a pound - but I think drilling and tapping all the holes might be a problem? So, this is a little set-back...

I just found out that there is a Metal Supermarket (http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/default.htm) down the road from me. Anyone ever do business with them? I requested a quote, I will let y'all know how their prices are.

ger21
04-21-2005, 11:48 AM
I just found out that there is a Metal Supermarket (http://www.metalsupermarkets.com/default.htm) down the road from me. Anyone ever do business with them? I requested a quote, I will let y'all know how their prices are.

I've got one right down the street here. Probably not the cheapest, but the convenience makes up for it.

JavaDog
04-21-2005, 12:15 PM
Probably not the cheapest, but the convenience makes up for it.

I guess my problem is that I am not really sure what a good price is...

I know plastic much better than I know Alum. :rolleyes:

JavaDog
04-21-2005, 03:08 PM
The nice USPS man dropped of my Servos last night. They are gorgeous!

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Servos_1.jpg

JavaDog
04-22-2005, 10:37 AM
I also went to Metal Supermarkets this morning. Not super cheap...but they had what I needed. I haggled the **** out of them, I think they were ready to kill me. :rolleyes:

Booty:
Qty 2: 1/4" x 25" x 10"
Qty 1: 3/8" x 12.5" x 8"
Qty 1: 3/8" x ? x ?
and a whole bunch of scrap.

Damage: $150 (Updated Tally on page 15)
Total of 44lbs - works out to $3.40/lb.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Aluminum.jpg

JavaDog
04-22-2005, 09:56 PM
I drew up some quick & rough designs for the frame.

End-plates are .25" 6061. Top parts of the frome are 80/20 1515. Bottom parts of the frame are 80/20 1530.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Frame.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Frame_2.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Frame_3.jpg

So, look like a solid plan?

JavaDog
04-25-2005, 03:40 PM
Just a small update. I received my CNC4PC boards - very nice. They were a good deal - can't wait to get everything else (Geckos and PSU) so I can spin my servos! Speaking of Gecko drives, I ordered them this morning with 3-day shipping. So, I should have them soon!

Other than that - it was a soggy/cold/nasty weekend. I got a lot of measurements done, and started fleshing out my Z-Axis.

santiniuk
04-25-2005, 04:23 PM
Thats one solid looking frame :)

I'm pleased you had the soggy/cold/nasty weekend ! Surprisingly for the U.K we had a Dry/Warm/Refreshing weekend !

Will be interested in how your servo testing comes along, I'm an addict now and really would like to build a machine with servo based system next time.... Must ask Mr Garfield how PicServo is developing....

Cheers

JavaDog
04-25-2005, 04:49 PM
Thats one solid looking frame :)

I'm pleased you had the soggy/cold/nasty weekend ! Surprisingly for the U.K we had a Dry/Warm/Refreshing weekend !

Will be interested in how your servo testing comes along, I'm an addict now and really would like to build a machine with servo based system next time.... Must ask Mr Garfield how PicServo is developing....

Cheers

Damn weather! Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/squint.gif At least someone had nice weather!

Glad you like the frame. I went through half a dozen different ideas, and this one seemed the easiest and the most solid. I saved a bit by going with the .25" Alum. for the end-plates. Hopefully with the 80/20 framing in there as well there won't be any flex. Just gotta make sure I build it nice and square!

Don't worry, I'm sure I will be my typical verbose self about the servos! Http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/Smilies/2thumbsup.gif

JavaDog
04-27-2005, 01:43 PM
Ok, so quite a bit of fun working out my power supply (http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10091). I've learned alot, and I think I have it pretty well nailed down. Got the transformers ordered from MPJA...should get them soon.

It is going to be torture have my Servos and Breakout board...and getting my Geckos thursday...but not being able to play with them until I get my transformers and build the PSU. :rolleyes:

JavaDog
04-29-2005, 09:17 AM
My favorite UPS man dropped of my Gecko Drives last night!

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Gecko_Drives.jpg

Wonderful little gadgets, they are. :D

santiniuk
06-19-2005, 05:21 PM
Hey Java, been a while. Hows the build going. Looks like your all set for action soon :)

Keep the updates coming. I'm following with interest !

thirty78
06-29-2005, 12:16 PM
Hi
I have a question, how you plan to do with the shaft ?
are you going to make it longer ?
I have got the same Cliftons and don't know what to do.

ViperTX
06-29-2005, 12:21 PM
thirty78, if the shaft is too short add a coupler....otherwise a hub adapter...

thirty78
06-29-2005, 12:28 PM
Thanx ViperTX
I have a look on the Internet and find out what they look like.

JavaDog
07-30-2005, 10:34 PM
Hi
I have a question, how you plan to do with the shaft ?
are you going to make it longer ?
I have got the same Cliftons and don't know what to do.

I don't think I will need to make them longer. At least, not the way I plan on mounting them...

JavaDog
07-30-2005, 10:35 PM
Ok, so the frame is going to be made from 80/20 and Aluminum Plate (for the end-caps) as I previously went over.

Here is my collection of 80/20 for the frame:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/001.jpg

These are the fasteners that allow you to bolt things to the 80/20. They go into one of the channels on the sides:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/002.jpg

So, I need to cut the 80/20 to size.

Here is the weapon of choice:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/003.jpg

...and its teeth:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/004.jpg

On to the carnage!!

JavaDog
07-30-2005, 10:37 PM
Setting up for the first cut:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/005.jpg

Cutting the 80/20:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/006.jpg

I was amazed, it ate through that aluminum like it was a soft-cheese.

Now, cutting the smaller 80/20:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/007.jpg

Again, like buttah!
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/008.jpg

That was easier than I could have hoped! Now, with the 80/20 all cut, it was time to start drilling the end-plates to bolt everything up.

JavaDog
07-30-2005, 10:39 PM
Here I started to mark where I needed to drill. Since I have two end-plates, and I want them to be exactly the same, I will drill them both (clamped) at the same time.

Marking:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/009.jpg

You can see the clear lexan I used to make a drill-guide
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/010.jpg

Here is my drill press:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/011.jpg

Now, let me go off on the table a bit. I was driving my Fiance to work, when I saw what looked like a cool table sitting on the side of the road with a "FREE" sign on it.
Well, that is my kinda price! So, I stopped to look at it on the way back. Turns out this beast 6ft long and about 5" wider than I needed for my CNC machine. It is made out of HEAVY 1/2" MDF, with the plastic panel coating and swank red bumper-guards.
It was like someone built a table for my CNC machine and left it out for me.

It. Rocks. :D

Ok, on to the drilling...

JavaDog
07-30-2005, 10:42 PM
Drilling the first hole:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/012.jpg

I am using some HSS drill bits. Cutting dry was a little rough, so I started spraying my bit with a little WD-40. Worked like a charm!

Another hole:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/013.jpg

Close up:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/014.jpg

First set of holes drilled:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/015.jpg

I was pretty happy, all the holes were spot on. Couldn't be better so far!
More to come soon!!

DieGuy
07-31-2005, 07:39 AM
Drilling the first hole:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/012.jpg

I am using some HSS drill bits. Cutting dry was a little rough, so I started spraying my bit with a little WD-40. Worked like a charm!

Another hole:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/013.jpg

Close up:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/014.jpg

First set of holes drilled:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/015.jpg

I was pretty happy, all the holes were spot on. Couldn't be better so far!
More to come soon!!


you got spanked!

The page you requested cannot be displayed because the user is over their daily bandwidth utilization

I bet the bots are starting to scan these sites and that causes all sorts of issues with bandwidth usage. Out of bandwidth @ 7:30 AM EDT is a bad thing. ;)

JavaDog
07-31-2005, 09:32 AM
you got spanked!

I bet the bots are starting to scan these sites and that causes all sorts of issues with bandwidth usage. Out of bandwidth @ 7:30 AM EDT is a bad thing. ;)

Actually, my Underwater ROV got Slashdotted - and my ISP freaked...
Plus, I had 100Mb of stuff on the "Free 10Mb Storage!" my ISP gives me.

They deleted everything. :violin:

ger21
07-31-2005, 09:55 AM
If you'r posting images here, it's a good idea to upload them here to the site. That way the pictures will always stay with the thread. There are alot of older threads here with no pictures because the pictures are no longer where they were linked to. And we all know how useless some threads are without pics. :) Don't let this happen to you!

ger21
07-31-2005, 10:02 AM
Don't let this happen to you!


Oops. I see it's too late. All the pics in this thread are gone. :(

JavaDog
07-31-2005, 10:38 AM
Oops. I see it's too late. All the pics in this thread are gone. :(

Yeah, I will be fixing this soon. ;)

EDIT: Everything is fixed and back up. :banana:

JavaDog
10-27-2005, 11:46 AM
Ok, so with the end-plates all drilled I could finally do a mock-up of the frame. Not all of the 80/20 was tapped, nor did I have enough bolts (estimate about 50 cap-head machine screws total = $$) to bolt everything up - so some parts are held together with some drill bits. :D

So, minus the rails and ballscrews, here is what the lower frame will look like:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/017.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/016.jpg

For size reference, this is 26in from plate-to-plate. :cool:

More updates soon!

santiniuk
10-27-2005, 04:06 PM
After following the thread for some time it's great to see you got back into gear ! ;)

Picture quality is excellent.

Good luck with the build.

Cheers

JavaDog
10-27-2005, 04:27 PM
Yeah, you are going to see a lot more activity on this. I have been draggin' my butt for too long!

I want to get my machine finished and get to making up all the parts to match the ideas I have!!

ViperTX
10-27-2005, 11:06 PM
JavaDog...for some reason I thought you had finished your router.

I'm working on the ballscrews for my unit, the router table is complete, the router x and y axis are almost complete...just lacking the finished ballscrews and the bearing blocks, I have a mental picture of the z-axis and will build it after I complete the x and y axis.

JavaDog
11-07-2005, 12:01 PM
Grrr. I am a bit frustrated. I need to disassemble the rail/ballscrew assembly in order to make the mounting plates for the frame - but half the damn bolts won't come out! They are normal hex machine screws (cap head) but none of my allen wrenches will fit! I even went out and bought a 35pc set, with Metric and SAE - still no luck. Seems I am a half-size too small or too large, and a few of the bolt-heads stripped.

Even worse, there are some set-screws that hold the rails in place, and they are tiny, but again - nothing that fits. My smallest is too small, and the next size up is too big. Really starting to piss me off.

I'm thinking I may have to drill-out the set-screws? I'm going to try slotting the machine screws that stripped and use a flat-head screwdriver to try and get those out. What a PITA.

Just out of curiosity, does the lower frame look rigid enough - or will I need to do a little more reinforcing? I mean, it looks pretty solid to me, just wondering what you guys think. :cool:

Kenwood714
11-07-2005, 02:54 PM
JavaDog,
I work on consumer electronics and have this problem all the time with small hex head screws. It seems that the foreign hex QC or specs are flawed. :confused: Sometimes I have to force a Torx bit into the head to break it loose. It appears that your frame screws are not countersunk. If this is the case seems like a vise grip should do the trick.
It might be best to look at some US made fasteners. Good luck, hope you don’t have to drill them out. Nice looking frame. With the 80/20 you can always add some more bracing if you find you need to.

Ken

JavaDog
11-07-2005, 03:07 PM
JavaDog,
I work on consumer electronics and have this problem all the time with small hex head screws. It seems that the foreign hex QC or specs are flawed. :confused: Sometimes I have to force a Torx bit into the head to break it loose. It appears that your frame screws are not countersunk. If this is the case seems like a vise grip should do the trick.
It might be best to look at some US made fasteners. Good luck, hope you don’t have to drill them out. Nice looking frame. With the 80/20 you can always add some more bracing if you find you need to.

Ken

Yeah, the bolts are on this assembly (http://cnczone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=54488&postcount=62), not my frame. Good point on the vice-grips/pliers - didn't think of that! (chair) The counter-sunk ones and the set-screws are going to be tricky though...maybe my needle-nose pliers will be able to get the counter-sunk bolts (not the set-screws though).

I do plan on replacing all the bolts/set-screws with US made hardware that I know I have a wrench for!

Jason Marsha
11-07-2005, 04:15 PM
JavaDog,

With metric measurments you get half sizes many times and therefore you may have to get an extensive metric allen key set set to ensure you get all the small sizes. Look at the sizes on the allen keys you are using and it is very likely that a half size will solve the problem.

Jason

fyffe555
11-07-2005, 04:18 PM
If you have no patience like me just take an oversized key and grind a little off each flat until you get a fit...

alnicov
11-07-2005, 04:32 PM
"The counter-sunk ones and the set-screws are going to be tricky though..."

Screw extractors should do the trick for the countersunk bolts and maybe the set screws too. -Al

JavaDog
11-07-2005, 04:41 PM
JavaDog,

With metric measurments you get half sizes many times and therefore you may have to get an extensive metric allen key set set to ensure you get all the small sizes. Look at the sizes on the allen keys you are using and it is very likely that a half size will solve the problem.

Jason

Yeah, problem is I will need to order a (probably $$) set - since I can't find anyone local that has the odd half-sizes. It is an option though...


If you have no patience like me just take an oversized key and grind a little off each flat until you get a fit...

Good idea, the 35pc set I have is a $10 Harbor-Freight special, so I wouldn't lose any sleep about grinding one or tow of them down. We'll call this Plan-B. ;)


Screw extractors should do the trick for the countersunk bolts and maybe the set screws too. -Al

Yeah, I was hoping to avoid screw-extractors - but I might not have a choice with the tiny set-screws.

JavaDog
12-30-2005, 08:12 PM
Here are some pictures of the awesome enclosure that I bought for all the electronics and power supply:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/Enclosure_1.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/Enclosure_2.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/Enclosure_3.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/Enclosure_4.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/Enclosure_5.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/Enclosure_6.jpg

ViperTX
12-31-2005, 12:15 AM
Well looks like rusty sheetmetal....what did you pay for it....better get it painted quickly.

JavaDog
12-31-2005, 04:37 AM
Well looks like rusty sheetmetal....what did you pay for it....better get it painted quickly.

Steel does tend to do that. ;) Sadly, I can't paint it until the weather is better...

santiniuk
12-31-2005, 06:19 AM
Well looks like rusty sheetmetal....what did you pay for it....better get it painted quickly.

Nothing like a few word's of encouragement ;)

Good to see you have returned from the 'Murky depth's' Java. That's some nice rusty steel you have there. One thing for sure when painted / sprayed it looks a sturdy enclosure and should house everything.

How has the frame progressed ? Any updates ?

All the best.

Shaun

JavaDog
01-03-2006, 09:30 PM
Ok, back to the frame...

Tapping the 80/20 Extrusions:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/019.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/020.jpg

The frame, not mocked up - actually bolted together:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/021.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/022.jpg

Frame with MDF spoil-board (not yet cut to size):

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/023.jpg

JavaDog
01-14-2006, 12:06 PM
Since I wasn't happy with my Dual-Transformer design for my PSU I decided to go another route.

A forum member was kind enough to send me a toroid transformer (what y'all said I should have used from the start!). Check it out:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/New_Transformer.jpg

JavaDog
02-07-2006, 11:43 AM
So, this morning I drilled out the stripped set-screws holding the rails into the assembly. Remember, I needed to take out the rails and ballscrew and re-mount them spaced to hold the gantry.

There are the offending buggers:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/024.jpg

BTW - Those machine set-screws are a ***** to drill out! :devious:

I also went aluminum shopping and bought the lower cross-member that will be the base of the gantry. I decided to put the rails/slides in place (or there-abouts) to see how it looks:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/025.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/026.jpg

Holy crap, it's starting to look like something! :D

Stay tuned for the making of the rail mounting blocks!

Weldtutor
02-08-2006, 09:19 AM
The "something" it's starting to look like is fabulous!

Great photo record if your build. Thanks for sharing.

Nice looking enclosure for your electronics. ;)

JavaDog
03-05-2006, 11:23 AM
Alright, so I need to get the X-Axis rails mounted to the frame so I can measure and get the aluminum for my gantry.

First, had to get rid of the old mount that held the rails and ballscrew in one compact mount:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/027.jpg

The, I got some small aluminum blocks that needed to be drilled out to hold the rails and be mounted to the frame. For size ref. they are 2" x 1.5".

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/028.jpg

Drilling the first block, which will also be the guide for the rest of the blocks:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/029.jpg

Using the first block as a guide for all the others (I know aluminum doesn't make the best drill guide - but it worked fine). You'll notice the blocks weren't all the exact same size.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/030.jpg

JavaDog
03-05-2006, 11:27 AM
Next I needed to drill a 3/4" hole for the rails in the blocks. Now, with my little drill-press I couldn't come up with a way to make that large of a hole that would be even close to accurate. So, a friend offered to help.

So, we clamped all the blocks together and drilled them all in one shot so they would be all the same.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/031.jpg

Check out that monster bit that we used. Yarr!

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/032.jpg

Pictures of the finished blocks and mounted rails soon!

Mcgyver
03-05-2006, 01:51 PM
Java, great to see the progress! keep at it!

mlaws1172
03-05-2006, 04:36 PM
Can't wait to see you cutting
mike

JavaDog
03-15-2006, 10:17 PM
Got the blocks all done and the rails mounted. Got lots of time, since I just got fired from my job. :mad: It's all good though, wasn't happy there anymore. Now, back the the CNC Machine! :cheers:

Drilling the hole for the Set-Screw that will hold the rail:
http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/033.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/034.jpg

Now that they are drilled, time to tap them:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/035.jpg

All done! Look at those spiffy little blocks, you can see the rail next to them:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/036.jpg

Frame back together with the rails/blocks bolted up. Everything is perfect, square and level.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/037.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/038.jpg

I clamped the bottom part of the gantry to the rails temporarily to check clearence and movement. Glides nice and smooth too. Now, to get the ballscrew and servo mounted - and the lower half is done!

Movement Video! (http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Movement.mpg)

More to come VERY soon.

JavaDog
03-24-2006, 03:29 PM
Now I need to mount the ballscrew to the frame. The old mounting plate, for the time being, is the best option. But, it needs a few adjustments...

Since it will be mounted facing the end-plate I need to counter-sink the two bottom screw holes:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/040.jpg

Now I need to drill a hole in my end-plates for the shaft of the ballscrew. My drill-press couldn't reach to the center of the plate, so I had to use my cordless. Surprisingly, it chewed through both plates with ease!

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/041.jpg

Now for the four holes to mount the ballscrew bracket to the plate:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/042.jpg

Man, I love it when I measure things correctly and they fit perfect!

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/043.jpg

JavaDog
03-24-2006, 03:34 PM
Now, for the other side of the ballscrew with the bearing. The original bracket wasn't the same size/shape as the first bracket. Since I drill the holes through both end-plates at the same time - I kinda wanted a bracket that would use the existing holes. Also, it would help me keep everything aligned.

The old mounting bracket:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/044.jpg

Now, I don't have a way to do the flat-bottom bore in aluminum - so I decided to make the bracket out of 1/2" polycarbonate.

Four corner holes drilled - now for the center bore to hold the bearing:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/045.jpg

Just need to clean it up a little:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/046.jpg

Perfect! Just like the original:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/047.jpg

All mounted up with the bearing and blasscrew in place:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/048.jpg

Of course, I will re-make it out of aluminum when my machine is running...

The other end mounting utilizing the original bracket:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/049.jpg

Looking good!

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/050.jpg

Now to get the gantry done! I would say I am over the hump now, maybe 40% left to go...

santiniuk
03-24-2006, 03:50 PM
Oh Yeh !

Got my internet connection back and a lot of catching up to do.

Build is coming along great Java. The picture quality as usual is perfect.

Sorry to hear about your job but at least it's got you kick started on this :)

Keep it up.

JavaDog
03-24-2006, 03:54 PM
Oh Yeh !

Got my internet connection back and a lot of catching up to do.

Build is coming along great Java. The picture quality as usual is perfect.

Sorry to hear about your job but at least it's got you kick started on this :)

Keep it up.

Oh man, I don't know what I would do without internet!

Thanks, truth be told - I wasn't happy there anymore and an excellent opportunity came along the day I got sacked. So, I have two months on unemployement to finish my machine and learn how to use it! It's actually pretty great... :cheers:

ger21
03-24-2006, 07:04 PM
Now, I don't have a way to do the flat-bottom bore in aluminum

If you have a router, then sure you do. Make a template out of your plexiglass, and drill your aluminum just a little bit undersize. Then, use a short pattern bit and route out the remainder of the hole. Here's a link to some pattern bits. http://www.eagleamerica.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_102-0552B

If you find that the holes too tight for the bearing, make the template from MDF. It will give a little, and give you a slightly bigger hole.

JRoque
03-25-2006, 07:33 AM
Very nice thread with lots of pics; keep them coming. Dude, it might not come out perfect but if I can help you cutting out any part you need while doing the build, by all means. In a pinch, I use a compound vise on the drillpress to do rough milling. It helps while the mill is down for repairs.

JR

JavaDog
03-25-2006, 07:55 AM
If you have a router, then sure you do. Make a template out of your plexiglass, and drill your aluminum just a little bit undersize. Then, use a short pattern bit and route out the remainder of the hole. Here's a link to some pattern bits. http://www.eagleamerica.com/product.asp_Q_pn_E_102-0552B

If you find that the holes too tight for the bearing, make the template from MDF. It will give a little, and give you a slightly bigger hole.

Yeah, I guess that is true. (chair) Let me admit something embarrassing here though, I haven't ever used a router by hand (well, a tiny bit with wood). Yeah, I know, probably not the best idea that my first real router use is going to be with it bolted to servos on a CNC platform. I'm actually thinking of taking the router class at the local Rockler's. Anyone ever taken any of their classes? Worth it?

JavaDog
04-08-2006, 06:31 AM
Ok, got a ton more done this week but I have been slow to go through the photos and post an update - so here is a quick one with more to come later.

Drilling the plate that will be the bottom of the gantry. This mounts the the slides on the rails:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/051.jpg

Now, I ordered a 21" piece of bar-stock (2" x 3/4") which I need to cut down to two equal pieces ~10" in length. These will form the gantry uprights...

Marked and ready for cutting:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/052.jpg

Cut, now I will take a very thin cut off of the ends while they are clamped together. This should give me a pretty square and even surface for both parts.

Cut done, and a perfect finish. I love this saw...

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/053.jpg

Now to square-up the gantry sides:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/054.jpg

Again, super smooth - did I mention I love this saw?

I decided to take a notch out of the gantry sides (what will be the 'front' and top of the plates when mounted) for purely cosmetic reasons.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/055.jpg

Now to square-up the two plates that make the bottom of the gantry:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/056.jpg

Yes, two bottom plates. I modified my design to give it some added rigidity - there should be almost no flex side-to-side in the gantry...

JavaDog
04-11-2006, 09:44 AM
Ok, now that I have all the metal cut and squared for the gantry it's time to get it drilled and put together.

First to drill is the rear-support bars:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/057.jpg

Next, I had to drill holes (that will be tapped) in the gantry sides to mount the support bars. A little bit of a PITA since they need to be drilled on edge, but I managed to get my drill-press set-up to be pretty repeatable without much adjustment.

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/058.jpg

Little closer showing the actual holes:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/059.jpg

Coming along good, gantry sides with the support-bars bolted on:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/060.jpg

Now I need to drill the holes in the gantry sides to mount them to the lower gantry cross-members:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/061.jpg

...and here is what the gantry looks like (minus the Y-Axis assm. and Z-Axis):

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/062.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/063.jpg
(You can see I got excited and mocked it up before drilling the rest of the holes in the sides...)

Just have to get the Y-Axis assembly mounted up, then I can start on the fun task of making the Z-Axis!

10bulls
04-11-2006, 10:26 AM
Arr hole drilling...yup...remember that part. Can't see much swarf about, you must be pretty tidy!

This is really coming together Javadog. I'm enjoying this thread immensely. This should be a beast when done; great for aluminium and maybe even steel. Just don't drop it on yer foot. Looks bloody heavy!!

Always impressed with your photos...Aluminium is a bugger to photo.

I love the schedule in the background...
"Buy Wire, Assm. Control Box, Test Electrical, Put Hair Out, etc..."
Nearly there!! :banana: Best part is, seeing what you've made without CNC and thinking what your going to get up to with that monster at your disposal. Promises to be entertaining!!! :D

JavaDog
05-01-2006, 06:33 PM
Just want to let you all know, my ISP is having a problem with the personal storage space I use for hosting pictures. My FTP access has been down for the last week+, but it is supposed to be fixed soon. As soon as it is, MASSIVE update time. ;)

No need to offer alternate storage space, I bought a domain and I am going to get a good hosting package soon. I don't think my ISP's "free storage" is going to cut it much longer, especially since I am 160mb over their 10mb "limit"! :D

Stevie
05-01-2006, 07:31 PM
I don't visit the Dark Side of the forums (wood routers)
But i must say JavaDog

"nice build"

keep up the good work

JavaDog
05-04-2006, 04:38 PM
I don't visit the Dark Side of the forums (wood routers)
But i must say JavaDog

"nice build"

keep up the good work

Thanks, and you're right - this should be in the metal routers section (which didn't exist when I started the build!).

Time for an update!

Marking where the upper gantry-plate meets the gantry sides. You can see that I have drilled and tapped the holes into the lower gantry-plate:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/064.jpg

Mounting holes drilled for the upper gantry-plate:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/065.jpg

Now to drill and tap the holes in the upper gantry-plate:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/066.jpg

Drilling holes on the ends of these long plates was a PITA with my little drill-press. I needed to undo the base and reverse it so that I had the clearence.

Gantry plates mounted up (not all the bolts are installed in this picture) and the Y-Axis plate clamped up to make where to drill:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/067.jpg

Y-Axis plate drilled, tapped, and mounted to the gantry supports (I need to get shorter bolts):

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/068.jpg

Y-Axis ballscrew/slide assembly clamped up to the plate:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/069.jpg

MDF top (not cut to size yet) to get a good idea of what she is going to look like. There is 5.5" of clearence between the bottom of the Y-Axis plate and the MDF top:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/070.jpg

ThEstablishment
05-04-2006, 05:53 PM
I thought I would de-lurk for a bit and congratulate you on your progress.

Looks like you are getting awfully close...

I followed you here from the Bit-tech forums almost a year ago, and I guess I have you to thank for getting me started on this hobby. I have been working on my own table, and I am reminded that I need to post my own build log.

Also, looks like you were mentioned on hackaday.com, congrats. :cheers:

JavaDog
07-15-2006, 10:31 PM
Ok, bolted the Y-Axis Ballscrew to the Crossplate.

Now to make the Z-Axis!

Here is how the Ballscrew and Linear Slide will be laid out (more or less) for the Z-Axis:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/071.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/072.jpg

Have to drill the holes to mount the Z-Axis plate to the Y-Axis Slides:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/073.jpg

...and counter-sink them:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/074.jpg

Here is what it looks like bolted to the Y-Axis:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/075.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/076.jpg

You can see that I need to make a bearing-block for the end of the ballscrew, and finish up the Z-Axis...

JavaDog
07-15-2006, 10:36 PM
Making the Z-Axis Ballscrew bearing-plate. For ease, I decided to make it out of polycarbonate. I will make a new one out of aluminium down the road...

Forstner Bit, Poly-carb and the top OEM bearing-block:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/077.jpg

Drilled with the bearing mounted:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/078.jpg

Mounting holes drilled and tapped:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/079.jpg

Re-Tapping the end of the ballscrew:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/080.jpg

All done and mounted:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/081.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/082.jpg

Now to mount the linear slide...

JavaDog
07-15-2006, 10:41 PM
Dual row of holes drilled for the linear slide:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/083.jpg

Tapped:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/084.jpg

Mounted:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/085.jpg

Now I wanted to add some physical stops so I didn't lose the slides off the end of the rails (big PITA):

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/086.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/087.jpg

That will do it, not going anywhere now.

Ok, now I needed to add a 1" thick block to get the mounting height for the ballscrew and linear-slide even:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/088.jpg

Marking the holes:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/089.jpg

Drilled and mounted:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/090.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/091.jpg

Then I drilled and tapped four mounting holes for the plated that will hold the router to the Z-Axis assembly:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/092.jpg

On to the Servo mounting!!

JavaDog
07-15-2006, 10:47 PM
Laying out the cut-lines for the Servo mounting plates:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/093.jpg

All cut:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/094.jpg

Now, where they mount to the machine itself, I wanted it adjustable - that way I can get the belts on and tensioned correctly.

First, drill a bunch of holes:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/095.jpg

Then, file like the Dickens:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/096.jpg

Now to drill the holes to mount the servos to the plate:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/097.jpg

Then using two different step-drills I enlarge the center-hole to fit the little lip on the servos. That way they will sit flush against the plates:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/098.jpg

Perfect:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/099.jpg

This is the Z-Axis Servo Mount, but you can see how the Servos fits like a glove:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/100.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/101.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/102.jpg

JavaDog
07-15-2006, 10:52 PM
Of course, I need to mount the Servo to the front plate for the X-Axis!

Here you can see where the spindle for the X-Axis ballscrew come through the front frame-plate:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/103.jpg

The Servo-Mount all finished:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/104.jpg

Then I had to enlarge the hole for the X-Axis ballscrew to fit the hub of the Pulley. Since I have a small drill-press that couldn't reach, I used my cordless drill (worked like a champ):

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/105.jpg

Back to the Y-Axis plate and the Servo Mount. I needed to notch the spot where the plate mounts to the Y-Axis cross-plate:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/106.jpg

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/107.jpg

Perfect!

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/108.jpg

Except for...

JavaDog
07-15-2006, 10:56 PM
This big glaring mistake...er rather, just something I didn't think of:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/109.jpg

With the servo mounted this way for the Y-Axis, the Z-Axis servo would hit it when it still had almost five inches of travel left:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/110.jpg

So, to re-work the mount and swing the Servo to the other side. I decided I would just use a second plate and make some stand-offs.

Cutting the stand-offs:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/111.jpg

So, it would make the mount work like so:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/112.jpg

Of course, I broke my nice 4mm tap:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/113.jpg

Now I will leave you with a teaser of the finished machine:

http://users.adelphia.net/~javamoose/CNC/Build/114.jpg

JavaDog
07-21-2006, 03:22 PM
So, the Y-Axis Servo Mount had to be re-designed. Turned out I made the standoffs too tall and there was too much side-to-side mis-alignment between the pulleys.

So, just turned the standoffs on their side. Took the spacing from 1.5" to 3/4" - which turned out to be perfect!

http://static.flickr.com/70/194895823_3840557027_o.jpg

http://static.flickr.com/77/194895804_f7d0804da9_o.jpg

Pretty easy fix. Next I am going to post pictures of the electronics and control box - all finished. Then, final pictures of the machine (high-res) and VIDEOS!

Miata2k
08-22-2006, 11:28 AM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but Javadog's last post was just over a month ago so I'm wondering if this project finished?

Did Javadog ever post any finished work or videos?

Maybe he is just on vacation.. :)

margni74
08-09-2007, 10:56 PM
Maybe I'm missing something here, but Javadog's last post was just over a month ago so I'm wondering if this project finished?

Did Javadog ever post any finished work or videos?

Maybe he is just on vacation.. :)

Was this machine ever finished. I read the whole thread to find out that it is a mystery whether this machine was finished....